Discussion in 'Never Ending Stories' started by spryllino, Sep 28, 2011.
I would love to play as Syracuse.
What we really need to get this off the ground is a politician or two for Athens.
I'll take Alkibiades, but this needs more players if you want it to get off the ground.
Kraz: Thanks! Send me orders for the war in Thrace then, please, right as soon as you can. Your colleague Lamachus agrees with your plan, whatever it is, unless it's completely loopy. I reckon a second update ought to get things going, and, while I'd like players for Nicias, Thessaly, Chalcidice and Macedonia, I reckon the likeliest way to acquire them is to update.
Boundless and Matt: If I receive orders from you before I finish updating (which will depend when I receive Kraznaya's orders), I'll happily carry them out.
Update 2 - March 420 to March 419
-------THRACE AND THESSALY-------
At the beginning of the second summer after the signing of peace between Athens and Sparta, the Athenians resolved to send another expedition to Thrace under the command of Alcibiades, with the aim of taking Amphipolis. Alcibiades took 5000 hoplites and fifty ships, to supplement Lamachus's 2500 hoplites and forty ships and the 1000 hoplites of the garrisons at Potidaea and Mecyberna. Alcibiades was also joined by 550 men from Sparta, comprising 300 Spartiates and 250 Perioeci, and when the 300 Perioeci at Potidaea were counted, that brought the entire force to a total of 9350 men.
The Athenian army sailed from Athens to Potidaea around the middle of summer, and marched by land from there to Amphipolis. Clearidas had told the Amphipolitans that the Spartans who were accompanying the Athenians had come for the purpose of reinforcing Amphipolis during the night right under the Athenians' noses. Although some Amphipolitans were suspicious, they largely trusted Clearidas on the matter, out of a mixture of wishful thinking and despair at the size of the Athenian army, and they opened up the gate on the bridge over the Strymon to the Spartans during the night. The Spartans seized the bridge and gates to open the city up to the Athenian army, but the Athenians took quite a while approaching the city, because all the fires in the camp had gone out by that time, and many of the soldiers were so tired by their voyage and the march from Eion along the river that they had, contrary to orders, gone to sleep. The Amphipolitans, who had gone down to open the gates with the Spartans, realised when they heard the uproar coming from the Athenian camp and noticed the Spartans seizing the gateway that they had made a mistake, and fought a vicious and desperate battle to reach the gate and burn down the bridge before the Athenians arrived, and, indeed, nearly succeeded, as the Spartans were disordered as they had had to maintain a pretence of not being about to fight and, in fact, had not expected the Athenians' delay. The Amphipolitans had very nearly set fire to the bridge when the Athenians put it out by throwing river water from their shields and helmets on it. By this point the city was thoroughly awake and a panic arose, and by the time the Amphipolitans by the gate had been defeated, the vast majority of the locals, almost all the poorer citizens and the women and children, had fled in the opposite direction through the eastern gate, mostly ending up among the Edonians. The Athenians and Spartans therefore found themselves marching into a ghost town, but this was remedied by an announcement inviting the Amphipolitans to return under terms binding them more closely to Athens, and they did return for the most part, although most of their leaders did not return to be tried for treason. What few ringleaders the Athenians could find they tried and put to death. Gradually during the year some Athenian colonists who had left under Brasidas gradually started to move back in, although the city remained very depopulated. The Athenians marched to besiege Olynthus, while the Spartans left them and marched through Macedonia into Thessaly. [-150 Spartiates; -50 Perioeci; -30 Athenian hoplites; -300 Amphipolitan hoplites; -400 Amphipolitan peltasts. 600 peltasts and 300 hoplites is the current military strength of the Amphipolitan militia.]
When the Athenians reached Olynthus, no army came out to oppose them, and they settled down to a siege, although the Olynthians, having strong fortifications and large supplies, were in a position to defend their city for a long time against the Athenians. Chalcidian attacks on their foragers and night-attacks on the Athenian siegeworks made it difficult to maintain the siege properly over the winter, so that much of the army was forced by logistics to winter in Potidaea and Mecyberna, and if the winter had not been particularly mild it is quite likely that the sporadic Chalcidian attacks would have forced the Athenians to abandon portions of their lines of siege around the north of the city. [-250 Athenian hoplites.]
The Spartans, under Clearidas, were welcomed by King Perdiccas of Macedonia, who was, following the peace, extremely eager to do anyone Athenian or Peloponnesian a favour, with open arms. Perdiccas suggested to Clearidas that Clearidas might help him attack his enemy King Arrhabaeus in Lyncus in return for his help in invading Thessaly, but Clearidas, irrationally confident on account of the ease with which he had marched northward under Brasidas and with a very Spartan wish not to exceed his mandate further than he already had done, declined the suggestion and marched without any reinforcements into Thessaly. His orders were to march by land to the relief of Heraclea, plundering the cities who had helped besiege it as he went, and he began to do so, setting up a camp in Larissan territory. This was when it became particularly clear that the only reason that it had been possible to pass through Thessaly with impunity before had been the acquiescence or sympathy of the Thessalian oligarchies, but this time the Spartans were - unsurprisingly - out of luck: the Larissans immediately mobilised their entire army and marched out to meet them as soon as they had begun pillaging. Clearidas saw that he could not keep on pillaging when he was outnumbered and had no cavalry, and, having no wish to give battle, he beat a hasty retreat, his rear harried rather effectively by the excellent Thessalian cavalry and light infantry. He marched back to Macedonia, where he was again welcomed by Perdiccas, and he sent back to Sparta for more orders. [-80 Spartiates; -20 Perioeci; -30 Larissan cavalry]
At Heraclea, low-level warfare continued during this year, as the local Malians and Aenianians, along with some Thessalians, continued to lay siege to that city, but there was no major assault this year. [-30 anti-Spartan Trachinians; -30 Aenianians; -30 Hieraeans and Paralians; -30 pro-Spartan Trachinians; -30 Heracleans.]
In Argos, the situation was somewhat desperate, as a very large proportion of the Argive forces had been killed in battle, and a very substantial armed force was prisoner in Mantinea. They therefore despatched messengers to find out what the Spartans's terms were, and furthermore to return to Argos with a report of how the siege of Mantinea was proceeding, and meanwhile urgently accelerated the advancement of the sons of the Thousand who had been killed and some others to the hoplite class, while they awaited the result of their agents' inquiries. The Corinthians carried out a small raid against Cleonae with 200 peltasts and the naval archers, which made the Argives more anxious, but was generally a failure because the Cleonaeans mobilised their hoplites, who had returned from Mantinea essentially unharmed, remarkably fast to preserve their property and that of the neighbouring Argives, but there was no battle as the Corinthians quickly withdrew. The Cleonaeans then marched out moderately armed, a month later, into the territory of Tenea, which the local Corinthian magistrates had not at all anticipated. The Teneans became angry and rash, and, in the event, the Corinthian magistrates incompetently failed to do anything, and so they took the field against the Cleonaeans. While the Teneans were more heavily armed, and the Cleonaeans did not form up as a proper phalanx, the Cleonaeans were considerably more numerous, more experienced, somewhat more organised, and not at all badly armed, and the ground was uneven, with the result that the Cleonaeans drove the Teneans back within their walls, inflicting not inconsiderable losses given the small number of troops engaged, and ravaged the area, doing far more damage than the Corinthians had done to their land. [-40 Corinthian hoplites.]
Meanwhile, the Spartans at Mantinea continued to lay siege to it through the spring. Continuing their siege works, they had soon completely invested it with the use of an armed camp as well as considerable earthworks, and as the summer drew on their army gradually swelled with the troops of their allies from across the Peloponnese. As their food supplies went from being meagre to being non-existent, and as their city was surrounded day by day with more and more troops, and as there was apparently no hope of a relieving army (and, in fact, the Argive emissaries had already come, and they had returned to Argos to declare that there was no chance of breaking the siege and that the best thing to do would be to accede to the Spartans' terms). The Mantineans and the Argives in the city therefore surrendered at about the middle of summer, and the Spartan army entered the city, took the Argives prisoner, about a thousand of them, all told, and among them some of the richest men in the city who had been fighting among the Thousand. [-50 perioeci; -50 Tegeates; -50 Mantineans.]
When the Argive emissaries returned to the city, they announced the Spartans' terms, that they should install an oligarchy, that they should hand Cleonae over to the Corinthians, and that they should join the Peloponnesian League, and further said that Mantinea would soon fall and that the remaining army of Argos could never break the siege. Although the Argives were not so despondent that they made peace immediately, when Mantinea fell and they understood that the Spartans held a thousand of their men, and the most famous men in the city, captive, they fell into such despair that they immediately accepted the Spartans' terms, thinking that if they were forced to accept an oligarchy and join the League they would probably be forced to receive a garrison, while the oligarchy would likely consist of all the most pernicious men in the city and all the men worst disposed towards the interests of the people, and it could scarcely be expected that the Spartans would keep the prisoners at considerable expense for an indefinite length of time. On the motion of Theopompus, they decreed that the Council should prepare a list of suitable and moderate men who could govern the city, and the Council chose thirty-nine names, of which six were rejected by the Assembly. The chief men were Theopompus, Cleon, Athenodorus, and Calliades; along with them the Argives chose twenty-nine others. Having agreed to the terms and received back all their prisoners, the Argives joined the League. The fact that the Argives, who had been independent since their very foundation and had led the Greeks in the days of Agamemnon and many times since, had succumbed so completely to the power of Sparta on account of the capture of a thousand men, was remarked on, both as a great misfortune and as a demonstration of the chaos and trouble that come from war; for this reason, while the Argive people hated the Spartans, they were so completely cowed, and so angry at their bellicose leaders whose policy had allowed their defeat after decades of peace, that they did not insist on the institution of any particularly warlike or anti-Spartan men among the board of Thirty-Three, although they elected no puppets either. Thus ended the war between Argos and Sparta and their respective allies. [Prisoners returned to Argos; Argos becomes an oligarchy and a Spartan ally.]
The Tarentines continued work on the great Temple of Zeus. They withdrew their garrison from Cumae, presumably supposing that the threat to that city had passed, although some of the men in the garrison joined the city of Cumae. [-250 Tarentines to Cumae. Cumae, Posidonia, and Elea now have stats.]
To Sparta, Corinth and the whole Peloponnesian League
Spartans and allies, it is known throughout the world that no people values liberty more highly than the Spartans do, and it is common knowledge that Sparta and her allies are praised throughout the world for their noble deeds in defending the Thracians, and for her noble defence of the Lepreates and the Parrhasians and all others who have found themselves subjected to the rule of another, and for making a just and universal peace. Cleonae is an independent people, a nation that loves its true allies, but cannot love an oppressor; now we have been assigned as a subject to our neighbour Corinth, a nation which, although we have done no harm to the Corinthians in living memory, plundered our land last summer and tried to lay our territory waste. Must we truly endure such a lot when this League is renowned throughout Greece, and the Spartans are universally praised, for the fact that these allies who meet together here are free and equal?
We would like to make peace with you and rejoin the Peloponnesian League as your ally. Are you willing to restore our former friendly relations to how they were before?
From Goaxis, King of the Edonians and Polles, King of the Odomantians
We would be delighted, if you so desired, to provide some new colonists to help repopulate Amphipolis.
There will be further diplo from the Chalcidians and Macedonia to various parties if no-one takes control of them within a week or so.
If you capture a city, I need to know what you're going to do with it in your orders!
I have corrected a few omissions in map and stats (the Athenian cavalry; Apollonia and Epidamnus; Apollonia Pontica; Heraclea Pontica; Bithynia; the extent of the Odrysian Kingdom in Thrace).
If your orders are more than your people's labour could accomplish in the time available (erez particularly) they will stop carrying out your orders and assume that the things that appear first are of the highest priority, unless the orders are explicit about priorities. Be aware of this. erez, I therefore constructed ships and kept on going with the great temple you ordered last turn, and I ignored the irrigation thing, but if you had said the opposite I could easily have done that.
I made a mistake in Athens's stats last turn; the stats, until I corrected them the other day, had 5500 troops in Thrace, whereas the total should have been 3500 (i.e. the existing garrison of 1000 and Lamachus's force of 2500 as enumerated in the update). I have now corrected it in the previous stats as well as the current ones. The current combined force of the garrison, Lamachus's army, and Alcibiades's army, is 8500 men and 90 ships.
Now that Spartan dominance in the Peloponnese has been firmly re-established, I have done the obvious thing of colouring all the Arcadian states (which were previously sitting at least slightly on the fence between Sparta and Mantinea) in pink as allies of Sparta, as well as colouring the dependent oligarchies in Argos and Mantinea in pink. Equally, the only reason that the League of Acte was not coloured pink before was that those cities felt that they might need to pursue an independent policy if Sparta lost to Argos; now, though, as Sparta is clearly the hegemon, the cities of Acte are politically no less firmly tied to Sparta than to each other. However, these cities are all still allies, not subjects, with the obvious exception of Mantinea.
I have also detached Megara from Boeotia, because the Boeotians agreed to the Peace of Nicias whereas the Megarans didn't.
das: You can't just raise more Spartiates and Perioeci; that is the total able-bodied citizen body of the Spartan people. If you want more men, you can free slaves to create more neodamodeis, or think up some other imaginative way of finding them, or you can call on your allies more.
erez: You can't really use the navy for trade, because most of your labour force would be out of the city all year rowing the ships, which would make your economy crash.
Strategos: When I say that the local Corinthian magistrates in Tenea were incompetent, that, of course, isn't a reflection of anything you did or didn't do, but merely their own commonplace negligence.
Spoiler the Peloponnese :
Broad Oligarchy; governed by two Kings, five Ephors, the Gerousia and the Apella
Agiad King Pleistoanax
Eurypontid King Agis II
Leader of the Peloponnesian League
200 Spartiates garrisoning Mantinea
400 Tegeates garrisoning Mantinea
850 Spartiates under Clearidas in the North
450 Perioeci under Clearidas in the North
1350 Tegeates (Loyal)
500 Aegytians (Apathetic)
---- Subtotal 7350 hoplites under direct Spartan control
450 Argive Epilektoi (Disloyal to Sparta but overridingly Loyal to the Thirty-Three in Argos)
2500 Argive hoplites (Disloyal to Sparta but overridingly Loyal to the Thirty-Three in Argos)
500 Orneaean hoplites (Loyal to the Thirty-Three in Argos; Apathetic to Sparta)
---- Subtotal 3450 hoplites under the control of the Thirty-Three in Argos
1500 Sicyonians (Apathetic; also some Corinthian influence)
1000 Phliasians (Sympathetic; also some Corinthian influence)
1200 Epidaurians (Sympathetic)
800 Troezenians (Sympathetic)
800 Hermionians (Sympathetic)
500 Halieians (Sympathetic)
---- Subtotal 5800 allied hoplites from the Argolid but outside Argos
1000 Lepreans (Sympathetic)
2000 Mantineans (Resentful but controlled by a puppet oligarchy)
1200 Orchomenians (Apathetic)
950 Thelpusans, Heraeans, Eutresians and Alipherans (Apathetic)
900 Parrhasians and Maenalians (Apathetic)
500 Clitorians (Apathetic)
500 Pheneans (Apathetic)
300 Psophidians (Apathetic)
200 Cynaethans (Apathetic)
200 Lusians (Apathetic)
200 from Stymphalus (Apathetic)
200 from the Three Cities (Apathetic)
---- Subtotal 8150 Arcadian and Leprean hoplites
570 Heraclean hoplites
1470 Dorian and Trachinian peltasts
---- Subtotal 2040 troops in Doris and Trachis
-------- Total 26790 troops potentially available to Sparta
Prosperity: 6 (Sparta), 3 (Tegea), 2.5 (Argos), 3 (Argolid outside Argos), 2.5 (Mantinea), 1 (rest of Arcadia)
Sparta, or Lacedaemon, is easily the most powerful state in the Peloponnese, best known for the fierce reputation (albeit marred by recent events) of its citizen soldiers, who all pass through the rigorous Agoge instated by the semi-mythical lawmaker Lycurgus. Dominating Laconia from the 8th century BC, Sparta at first joined the towns it conquered on to the Spartan state as perioecic communities, whose men served in the army but did not participate in Lacedaemonian politics, but soon began to turn the people it conquered into helot serfs who worked the land on behalf of Spartan aristocratic masters. Continued expansion resulted in the conquest of Messenia by 715. Sparta grew to rival Argos, but Argos defeated Sparta at Hysiae in 669, prompting the Messenians to rebel. The struggle with Argos intermittently continued throughout the next century until the Argive and Tegean defeat in the middle of the 6th century, resulting in Sparta controlling the eastern coastline of Laconia as well as securing Tegea as loyal allies. In the Persian Wars, Sparta took a leading role in defending Greece against King Xerxes, but Athens took over the leadership of the coalition after the Persians had withdrawn from Greece. Spartan hegemony soon came under threat from a coalition of Argos, Elis, and Mantinea, and as soon as the allies had been defeated at Dipaea (465) there was an earthquake and the helots rebelled again but were defeated and settled at Naupactus in Locris by the Athenians. However, with its allies peaceable and with a peace treaty in operation with Argos running for thirty years (451-421), Sparta was in a powerful position when the war with Athens began (following the incidents at Epidamnus, Corcyra, Potidaea and Plataea) in 431. Spartan arms invaded Attica frequently during the war, but Sparta's position was seriously compromised when 300 Spartiates were captured (a unique event) upon the Athenian capture of Pylos in 425. The Spartan position was made even worse when the Athenians captured Nisaea, and only recently did events take a turn for the better with the numerous successes of Brasidas in Thrace. Brasidas's death (along with Cleon's) paved the way for the peace between Athens and Sparta which has just been solemnised.
Broad Oligarchy, governed by an annually elected Prytanis, Polemarch and Council
Member of the Peloponnesian League
Mother city to Leucas, Ambracia, and Syracuse
3960 Citizen hoplites
500 Cleonaean hoplites (Resentful)
500 hoplites garrisoning Leucas and Ambracia
1000 Leucadian hoplites (Loyal)
1500 Ambraciot hoplites (Loyal, at peace by separate treaty with Athens and Acarnania)
1000 Apollonian hoplites (Apathetic)
15 Corinthian warships
Prosperity: 4 (Corinth), 3 (Ambracia, Leucas), 4 (Apollonia)
Corinth is one of the most important and strategically located Greek cities, and this, indeed, led to it being one of the most prosperous of the cities, with the largest navy outside Athens and numerous colonies. Its rivalry with Athens was a major cause of the last war, because Athens excluded Corinth from gaining control over Corcyra and Potidaea, both Corinthian colonies. Defeats in naval battles meant that most of the navy was sunk, and the Leucadians and Ambraciots were decisively defeated at Idomene by the Acarnanians. Corinth's position is weak, although it still retains experienced sailors and a better maritime position than any of its allies, as well as retaining claims to intervention in numerous cities that it founded, including Syracuse in Sicily.
Democracy, governed by the Assembly, the Council of 600, the Demiurgi, and the Thesmophylaces
3000 Citizen hoplites
800 Triphylian hoplites (Apathetic)
400 Marganian, Amphidolian and Letrinian slingers (Apathetic)
Prosperity: 4 (Elis), 2 (Triphylia), 1.5 (Margana, Amphidolia, Letrini) - note vast wealth in offerings at Olympia
Elis is a relatively small state on the west coast of the Peloponnese, most significant because of its role in hosting the Olympic Games every four years. It has various subject states to the south, in the Triphylian and other dependent cities.
Very decentralised league of Democracies and Oligarchies
Prosperity: 2 (Aegium, Halice, Pellene, Patrae), 1.5 (other cities)
The Achaean League is more an ethnic and cultural than a political or military organisation. Until peace, some cities, notably Pellene, were in alliance with Sparta as well as belonging to the League.
Spoiler Central Greece :
Democracy, governed by the Assembly and Council
Current Income of 400 talents per year in peacetime from tribute and customs (not including liturgies) with state pay subtracted.
1000 TALENTS banked for dire emergencies
800 TALENTS otherwise banked (A surplus is required here if the Athenian state intends a very expensive undertaking. Such a surplus will amass every turn if the Athenian state does not undertake anything sizeable.)
8220 Citizen hoplites under Lamachus and Alcibiades's command in Thrace
90 Athenian ships under Lamachus and Alcibiades's command in Thrace
12500 Citizen hoplites
500 Plataean exile hoplites
3000 Acarnanian infantry
1000 Amphilochian infantry
500 Acarnanian cavalry
10 Athenian ships
30 Chian ships
10 Methymnan ships
30 Corcyran ships
Prosperity: 6 (but highly monetised, see above)
Athens possesses subject allies throughout the map who provide tribute to Athens. These allies also row the navy. Most of them have some armed forces of their own available, but naval service and tribute is all that can be demanded of them except in a dire emergency.
Athens has some subject allies off the map in the Black Sea, namely Mesembria, Odessos, Tomis, Istros, Niconium, Tyras, Carcinitis, Nymphaeum, Cerasus, Amisus, and Sinope, although there are various Greek cities around the Black Sea that are independent as well (particularly Olbia, Chersonesus, Theodosia, and the Bosporan Kingdom). Athens imports a substantial amount of grain from the Black Sea.
2000 Megarian hoplites
Megara refused to sign the Peace of Nicias in 421 because it did not include the port of Megara, Nisaea, which still remains in Athenian hands.
League of Oligarchies
The player represents Thebes, which more or less controls the Boeotian League's foreign policy (although the member states are largely domestically independent)
The League's armies are run by the council of 11 Boeotarchs (of which Thebes effectively controls 6, because the Thespian Boeotarchs are puppets)
Each member of the League supplies a fixed quota of troops (1000 Infantry and 100 Cavalry for each Boeotarch)
Member of the Peloponnesian League
4000 Theban hoplites (4 Boeotarchs)
500 Theban hoplites to cover the loss of Thespians at Delium
1500 Thespian hoplites (2 Boeotarchs) (Disloyal but ruled by a puppet oligarchy)
2000 Orchomenian hoplites (2 Boeotarchs) (Apathetic)
1000 Tanagran hoplites (1 Boeotarch) (Sympathetic)
1000 Copaean and Acraephnian hoplites (1 Boeotarch) (Sympathetic)
1000 Haliartan and Coronean hoplites (1 Boeotarch) (Sympathetic)
-------- Total 11000 hoplites
400 Theban cavalry
200 Thespian cavalry
200 Orchomenian cavalry
100 Tanagran cavalry
100 Copaean and Acraephnian cavalry
100 Haliartan and Coronean cavalry
-------- Total 1100 cavalry
1200 Opuntian Locrian peltasts (Sympathetic)
800 Epicnemidian Locrian peltasts (Sympathetic)
300 Opuntian Locrian cavalry (Sympathetic)
Prosperity: 4 (Thebes), 1.5 (Locris), 3 (elsewhere)
2200 Phocian hoplites
800 Phocian peltasts
200 Phocian cavalry
Sacred land controlled by the Oracle of Apollo
Prosperity: enormous wealth in the Temple
2100 poor-quality infantry
800 Aetolian hoplites
1000 Aetolian peltasts
2700 Aetolian poor-quality infantry
1500 Aetolian cavalry
Spoiler Northern Greece :
League of sixteen independent Thessalian cities, grouped into four Tetrarchies of four cities each, with seven subject-states
The most influential and prestigious city is Larissa, which is governed by the Aleuad clan.
The player represents the government of Larissa, not the whole League. (I would be entirely happy to have three separate players for Larissa, Pharsalus and Pherae, though.)
Each tetrarchy has a magistrate called a tetrarch, who is in overall command of the tetrarchy's forces if the tetrarchy or the whole League is at war. Cities providing their tetrarchy's tetrarch are in bold. If the circumstances seem to warrant it, the League may also elect a tagos as an overall commander, an office which is currently inactive.
Infantry (Peltasts and Hoplites)/Cavalry
---- Subtotal for Pelasgiotis 5250/1620
---- Subtotal for Phthiotis 3250/1550
---- Subtotal for Thessaliotis 1400/1400
---- Subtotal for Hestiaeotis 1700/1400
------ Subtotal for Thessaly proper 11600/5970
Subjects and Allies: (infantry mostly peltasts)
------ Subtotal for subjects and allies 11310/700
-------- Total troops potentially available to the Thessalian League 22910 infantry, 6670 cavalry
Prosperity: 2 (Thessaly proper, Achaea and Magnesia), 1 (elsewhere among the subjects and allies)
League of the Chalcidians in Thrace/?
League of Democracies
2000 Olynthian hoplites
800 Bottiaean hoplites
1000 other Chalcidian hoplites
300 Argilian hoplites
-------- Total 4100 hoplites
King Perdiccas II (since 454)
4000 poor-quality infantry
1500 Greek hoplites living in Macedonia
3000 "Companion" Cavalry
Macedonia is a poorly organised and fairly weak state, with its capital at Aegae. It has a loose claim to some sort of rule over Lyncus, Elimea and Orestis.
Stores: Timber for 15 warships (collected as present to Corinth)
4000 poor-quality infantry
Lyncus is the largest of the kingdoms that would later become "Upper Macedonia"; the present ruling dynasty controls Lyncus itself as well as the northern district of Pelagonia.
2000 poor-quality infantry
2500 poor-quality infantry
1500 poor-quality infantry
3000 poor-quality infantry
King Tharyps (since 430)
4000 poor-quality infantry
1500 poor-quality infantry
Ruled by annually elected prostates
4000 poor-quality infantry
Ruled by anually elected prostates
4000 poor-quality infantry
Spoiler Greek Italy :
Colony of Chalcis in Euboea
5000 Rhegian hoplites
600 Rhegian cavalry
15 Rhegian warships
Colony of the Opuntian Locrians (with Ozolian Locrian and Spartan elements)
4000 Locrian hoplites
2500 hoplites from colonies
500 Locrian cavalry
500 cavalry from colonies
15 Locrian warships
Prosperity: 4 (Locri), 3 (colonies)
Allied to Croton
Allied to Caulonia
5000 Crotoniate hoplites
600 Crotoniate cavalry
10 Crotoniate warships
Colony founded by Athenians and others
5500 Thurian hoplites
800 Thurian cavalry
15 Thurian warships
3000 Metapontine hoplites
500 Metapontine cavalry
5 Metapontine warships
Oligarchy of the Spartan type
Colony founded by Spartan exiles (Parthenidae)
6900 Tarentine hoplites
1400 Heraclean hoplites
900 Tarentine cavalry
200 Heraclean cavalry
24 Tarentine warships
Prosperity: 5 (Taras), 3 (Heraclea)
Achaean city (Colony of Sybaris)
4000 Posidonian hoplites
300 Posidonian cavalry
8 Posidonian warships
Ionian city (Colony of Phocaea)
2700 Elean hoplites
180 Elean cavalry
4 Elean warships
1500 Paleocumaean hoplites
1000 Neocumaean hoplites
750 Tarentine-Cumaean hoplites
150 Cumaean cavalry
1600 Neapolitan hoplites
100 Neapolitan cavalry
Spoiler Sicily :
Sicily is ruled by a variety of different Greek states, while parts are ruled by the Carthaginians and by native peoples (the Elymi, the Sicani and the Siculi). The Greek states are divided into two main groups, those founded by the Chalcidians (from Chalcis in Euboea) and those Dorian cities founded by the Corinthians, Rhodians or Cretans. In recent years, Syracuse (a Corinthian colony) has been particularly successful in war, signally worsting native rebels and then Acragas in the 440s. Sicily has spent much of the last decade in a war between the Leontinian alliace supported by Athens and the Syracusan alliance, but finally a compromise was made. Since then, though, the balance in Sicily has been altered again by Syracusan intervention in a civil war in Leontini, resulting in Syracuse annexing the city-state at the behest of the oligarchic party in Leontini, which has now moved to Syracuse and has been granted Syracusan citizenship. Messina has also been disturbed by party strife, with the oligarchic party handing the city over to the Epizephyrian Locrians, but now the Locrians have been expelled and an independent democracy rules Messina.
Native (Elymic) city
3000 Elymic hoplites
800 Elymic cavalry
Colony of Corinth
9000 Syracusan hoplites
1000 Syracusan cavalry
[400 Leontinian democratic hoplites imprisoned in the mines and still requesting freedom to leave]
60 Syracusan warships
Chalcidian League in Sicily/?
Loose alliance of Democracies
Colonies of Chalcis in Euboea (Naxos founded directly from Chalcis; Messina founded by Chalcis and Naxos; Catania and Leontini founded by Naxos)
3000 Messinian hoplites
3000 Naxian hoplites
2000 Catanian hoplites
500 Messinian cavalry
100 Naxian cavalry
50 Catanian cavalry
30 Messinian warships
5 Naxian warships
5 Catanian warships
Prosperity: 5 (Messina), 2 (Naxos), 3 (Catania)
Colony of Rhodes and Crete
6000 Geloan hoplites
700 Geloan cavalry
8 Geloan warships
Colony of Syracuse
5000 Camarinan hoplites
600 Camarinan cavalry
5 Camarinan warships
Colony of Gela
7000 Acragantine hoplites
1000 Acragantine cavalry
10 Acragantine warships
Colony of Megara Hyblaea (destroyed by Syracuse in 483) and of Megara in Greece
4500 Selinuntian hoplites
700 Selinuntian cavalry
10 Selinuntian warships
Mixed Dorian/Chalcidian City
Colony of Messina, with Syracusan elements
4500 Himeran hoplites
500 Himeran cavalry
7 Himeran warships
Spoiler Non-Greek monarchs :
Great King Darius II of Persia (since 423) (sons Artaxerxes, Cyrus, and others)
Satrap Pharnaces of Phrygia (since 432) (sons Pharnabazus, Mithridates, and Ariobarzanes)
Satrap Pissuthnes of Caria and Lydia (since 445) (son Amorges)
King Seuthes of the Odrysians (since 424) (cousin Amatocus son of Sitalces; brother Maesades and Maesades's son Seuthes; son Hebryzelmis) [King Seuthes is the nephew of the previous King Sitalces.]
King Polles of the Odomantians (since 427) (son Polles)
King Goaxis of the Edonians (since 423) (sons Cersodes and Seres) [Goaxis and his sons killed the previous King, Pittacus, because Pittacus married his wife Brauro.]
Kings Satyrus and Seleucus (brothers) of the Bosporan Kingdom (since 433) [off the map]
OOC: So I am basically waiting for TheStrategos to comment on the Cleonae situation.
We would gladly accept this if you recognise the freedom of Lepreum, for we would not wish to be known as those who abandon a sworn ally for another.
We willingly recognise Lepreum's freedom as our independent ally and yours in the League.
From the Chalcidians in Thrace
To Athens, and all other states in Greece and elsewhere
We are now willing to come to terms with Athens, along the lines of the Treaty, i.e. to pay the tribute as assessed in the day of Aristides, and to be allies of the League, seeing as there is no longer anyone willing to further the cause of freedom in Greece and to help us in our time of need. We therefore offer our signatures to the Peace of Nicias and ask the Assembly to grant us peace on that basis.
From Perdiccas of Macedonia
We are, as ever, your allies, and stand ready to help you if there should be need to do so.
From Perdiccas of Macedonia
We intend to present you with a large gift of wood out of our goodwill towards you, enough for fifteen ships, given the longstanding request of your ambassadors here for it; and you are free to buy more as you desire. Please come and pick it up.
From Perdiccas of Macedonia
Our offer of reciprocal help for Clearidas, that if he helps me attack Arrhabaeus I will help his army attack Larissa, stands.
I have updated and clarified the front page with full maps and stats. I intend to revive the NES fully, provided I have enough players, in time for a first update over the weekend 15-16 June.
Please feel free to claim to any state except for Sparta (reserved for das), Athens (reserved for Thlayli, or I will nominate a player), and Taras (reserved for erez87).
States that particularly want claiming are the following, but feel free to claim anything that has stats! I do, however, advise people against claiming places that are in the middle of nowhere and have nothing to do, such as Athamania or Ozolian Locris.
Thebes (Boeotian League)
Larissa (Thessalian League)
Also potentially interesting positions might include Selinus, Egesta, the Chalcidian League in Sicily, Acragas, Thurii, Posidonia, Elis, or perhaps even Pherae or Pharsalus in Thessaly.
If you're interested, please do jump in and claim something - I'm happy to give you helpful advice if you don't know what to do, and orders can be short and simple. By the way, you really don't need to know where everything is on the map!
Please hold off on the diplomacy for a few days: I want to clear up who's playing what and make sure we've got players to cover everything important, and then we'll probably start up with diplomacy and that kind of thing by next weekend. (Also, all stats are still subject to being tweaked until then.)
If it is alright, I would like to claim Macedonia.
I would like to claim either Thebes or Syracuse.
I'd like to take Larissa and the Thessalian League if thats alright.
I'll go read the rules! I hope they exist this time
After looking - you still need a population growth rule. Even one that just grows the population on its own every turn (and in that way refilling the army). Otherwise in five turns of wars most of the small city states will practically die out.
There is now an extra rule on the front page and an extra stat in each state's stats, to act as an indicator of prosperity and also of likely population growth.
any more positions open ? Sicily/ Italy maybe ?
I'll take the Chalcidian League in Sicily if that's okay?
Yay, welcome back Eko! (By the way, you need to choose a city out of the three cities in the Chalcidian League as a de facto leader for the League and as the city you will role-play - any of the three will do.)
Current claims are as follows:
das - Sparta
bonefang - Thebes (Boeotian League)
Grandkhan - Larissa (Thessalian League)
Bair the Normal - Macedonia
erez87 - Taras
JoanK - Syracuse
Ekolite - Chalcidian League in Sicily
BILLSIF - Posidonia
States that I recommend that players take:
Pherae in Thessaly
Pharsalus in Thessaly
So prosperity includes natural population growth? Because I doubt after five years of 1k losses an year fully annihilated whole cities?
Separate names with a comma.