Strategy Discussion and Guides

[Barbuesque]

Has somebody done the Chinese UHV? If yes, can you write your strategy, please?

Tech path was animal husbandry - writing, then backfill worker techs + sailing while library generates a greats scientist to bulb math, then research calendar, then monotheism (for organized religion) then currency/code of law, followed by beelines to 1) music 2)compass 3) Paper 4)gunpowder. If you are on a good enough pace, you can get to compass and/or paper before music as you can just whip the cathedrals. Getting to music very early isn't that important; you need to have it just in time, and to have the 8 cities + 16 temples needed for the UHV, while not compromising your tech rate for the 2nd uhv.

Sneaking a warrior or a scout as an embassador to europe and the middle east is really useful for tech trading, mostly to backfill techs as you won't be able to trade techs on which you have a monopoly (coded that way for china only). Be patient, eventually trade opportunities will appear.

Expansion wise, 4 cities in China, stop to let the economy recover, then add 1 city in Southeast Asia + 1 in Mandchuria, north of the wheat, just outside the mongol flip zone (I believe there's a screenshot of the mongol flipzone on the first or 2nd page of this thread) + 1 in Phillipines, and conquer Korea for the 8th city and you can have enough temples/cathedrals for the 1st UHV.

These 8 cities can grow to a huge size, except for the phillipines. They should generate enough commerce to turn you into a research juggernaut. It's important to not expand too fast so you can still get to currency and CoL fast. I waited to have both techs before getting my last 3-4 cities.

The golden ages deadline was the easiest, 2/3 UHV + olympic park for 1, and great peoples for the others. I only used my first GP for bulbing, the rest were stockpiled for the golden ages. I am sure you could be more aggressive, as China as no food issues and can generate tons of GP, plus likely get to economics and patronage first.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

-Migrate your capital 2E, 1S. It helps immensely in the long run.

-In northern China, you'll notice that I marked a whole bunch of tiles as "Flip".
Everything that is north and west of those tiles flips to the Mongols.
So Leoreth's Shenyang is not optimal; the one by the marsh is better.
Do not be tempted to capture that Silk Road city that spawns.
It flips to the Mongols as well.

-You want Beijing on the coast, not 1 tile away.

-Taiwan is worthless unless you can get The Great Cothon.
Recently, I've been experimenting with Okinawa instead (yay, historical friends!)
and getting the Gold is nice; Naha will get more Production, but it doesn't grow as fast as Taibei.

-The city you settle in the south is wholly dependent on which Cothon city you build.
Minimize overlap; overlap is not a desirable element.
There is much less precedent for it here than in vanilla BtS.

-Corea should be conquered as soon as the ten turns are up.
Japan will usually DoW you anyway for no reason before their ten turns are up, so shore a navy and a bunch of CKNs.
Kyoto in my opinion, is... okay. I'd much rather have one of the cities facing the Pacific.

Hope this helps.

I would forgo Hanoi & Manila.
It is much more profitable and helpful to your Foreign stability to occupy Kyoto instead.
Keep a large garrison in the south to wait for the Portuguese.
Alternatively, you can do what I do and sail to Europe to burn down Lisbon and Ponte Delgada.
Do England as well, since they run away in tech like crazy.

Overall city setup should be:
4 cities in China Proper
1 city in Manchuria
1 city in Corea
1 city in Taiwan/Okinawa
1 city in Japan

 

[Barbuesque]

I would forgo Hanoi & Manila.
It is much more profitable and helpful to your Foreign stability to occupy Kyoto instead.
Keep a large garrison in the south to wait for the Portuguese.
Alternatively, you can do what I do and sail to Europe to burn down Lisbon and Ponte Delgada.
Do England as well, since they run away in tech like crazy.

Overall city setup should be:
4 cities in China Proper
1 city in Manchuria
1 city in Corea
1 city in Taiwan/Okinawa
1 city in Japan

I agree that Manila is truly debatable. It is one of the sites that looks better in theory than in reality. Kyoto or Edo in Japan are definitely superior, the problem I found is youn NEED the 8th city for the UHV that was beyond the resources I had available before in the short time frame between 10 turns after japan's much later spawn (in DOC) + landing + conquering + end of city revolt and achieving UHV #1. I.e. I had neither the technological edge or the hammers available to conquer japan quickly, and all I wanted was 2 temples anyway, easily achievable with a single settler and a galley + a couple of previously idle workers.

However, a southeast asia site (Hanoi is best but there are other competitive sites) will have economics and industrial benefits that will outweight instability. Chinese stability isn't a factor anyway unless you go for domination and there are at least 2 good sites in southeast asia that are not in any flip zones.

 

[Jusos2108]

Dali is one of the best city spots (2E from Burma rise) in the game in terms of production, so I am surprised that nobody uses it.. Also there is no competition for it, unlike Japan.

 

[mykeedee]

So I am playing an England game and I have by far the most powerful economy on the planet and a nice fat surplus with my research slider at 100% but for some reason my economic stability is quite weak (+57 and going down) does anybody have any idea why this is happening?

 

[youtien]

I agree that Manila is truly debatable. It is one of the sites that looks better in theory than in reality. Kyoto or Edo in Japan are definitely superior, the problem I found is youn NEED the 8th city for the UHV that was beyond the resources I had available before in the short time frame between 10 turns after japan's much later spawn (in DOC) + landing + conquering + end of city revolt and achieving UHV #1. I.e. I had neither the technological edge or the hammers available to conquer japan quickly, and all I wanted was 2 temples anyway, easily achievable with a single settler and a galley + a couple of previously idle workers.

However, a southeast asia site (Hanoi is best but there are other competitive sites) will have economics and industrial benefits that will outweight instability. Chinese stability isn't a factor anyway unless you go for domination and there are at least 2 good sites in southeast asia that are not in any flip zones.

You don't need all cities to be mega city. I usually put: Luoyang(2e1s), Shanghai, Guangzhou, Hanoi, Anshan(on horse), Datong(on incense, can catch 1 pig and iron), Lasa(on Incense, can catch a pig), that's 7 in or near China Proper. The 8th should be Patliputra(send your initial warrior to Varanasi to prevent its spawn) or in Korea, or you can settle Qiqihaer on coal, e from horse in Manchuria. You can win UHV before Mongol spawns so flipping isn't a problem. You shouldn't fear Mongol at all because you can have so many techs and troops ahead.

 

[Lawrie]

Any tips on the Byzantines - I absolutely and utterly got my ass handed to me (after surviving the arabs... and the Blooming seljuks i got annihilated by the Turks/ottomans boo!

 

[kecook]

I'm interested in hearing about different strategies for the japanese in v 1.9, particularly focused on the first 2 goals. What cities do you go after first? How do you balance conquest w/ culture etc. Any insights on how to effectively play as japan would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[strijder20]

First go culture (run commerce slider, ensure you get Gartists and no other great people and get into the renaissance before popping them).

Manila should be your first concern, if the city isn't founded yet it'll be guarded by only two musketmen, so 4 CR Samurai will take it out with ease.
Korea you can go for any time, but preferably as early as possible, as it's a great area.

Do you have to control China? I don't quite remember. Right after the Chinese respawn (1500-1650) they'll be easy to vassalise/conquer.

Indonesia should of course only be conquered after the Dutch TC event.

Thailand I got as a voluntary vassal, can't give much advice on this.

Afterwards, release everything south of Taiwan and keep teching with your core cities, building only wealth (to keep slider at 100%), research buildings and research.

 

[Leoreth]

The Japanese strategy really depends on how China is doing. If they are a stable tech monster that managed to survive the Mongols, it's getting hard for you. In this case, I advise to only attack Korea and maybe the Philippines before you have the culture goal.

 

[lymond]

I just rolled the Turks using SVN. Is it normal for the Turks to start without settlers or is this an SVN bug? Not sure as I've never played them in DoC or regular RFC.

 

[Civciv5]

Can anybody help me with a guide for researching technologies as China?
I always fall behind all the civs when it comes to technology.

 

[AdrienIer]

I just rolled the Turks using SVN. Is it normal for the Turks to start without settlers or is this an SVN bug? Not sure as I've never played them in DoC or regular RFC.

Not a bug : it avoids the AI's horrible Sogut capital, and you usually have several city flips in Anatolia and Levant, plus Constantinople is usually an easy conquest.

 

[lymond]

Not a bug : it avoids the AI's horrible Sogut capital, and you usually have several city flips in Anatolia and Levant, plus Constantinople is usually an easy conquest.

Ha...yeah I noticed that after hitting end turn. As I wanted Constantinople as the capital, I hit it was the Horse Archers on Turn 0 and luckily killed the lone HRE axeman in the city with 1 HA. (I guess HRE wiped away the Byz during the game build)

Another question: I've been playing quite a few turns, constantly taking cities as I focus on the VCs. However, as I continue to take cities such as Mecca, Baghdad, etc., I'm getting a major hit to the Occupied Core Stability Status. It continues to go down and down and is now at -32. My war stability score is offsetting a lot of it, but if not I would be very unstable. As it is, I'm "Shaky". This just doesn't seem right and I've not a clue to counteract. All the other stability factors are Ok. Haven't really figured out the civic balance in DoC yet.

 

[AdrienIer]

Well it depends, what are your civics currently ? if you don't have occupation it's normal that your stability doesn't like all those untamed cities.

 

[lymond]

Well it depends, what are your civics currently ? if you don't have occupation it's normal that your stability doesn't like all those untamed cities.

I haven't change civics yet and don't think Occupation is open yet. I know there are good civic combos based on several factors, but nothing looks appealing as of yet based on what I have (HR, Bureau (or equivalent name), Slavery, OR). My "Civics" stability status is not bad. It's this "Non-Occupied Core" on the Detailed Stability screen that is massively negative "-32" and gets worse almost every turn.

I took "Non-Occupied Core" as representative of areas that make up what the game designates as core areas for the Turks that I have yet to conquer. However, as I'm grabbing more of my core the status continues to get worse. It's perplexing.

 

[Leoreth]

Occupied core actually comprises two categories: enemy controlling your core and you controlling enemy core (I figured that both aren't likely to happen at the same time, hence one number in the display). I noticed that this category often has counterintuitive numbers, too, but haven't investigated why this is yet.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Can anybody help me with a guide for researching technologies as China?
I always fall behind all the civs when it comes to technology.

Check this post, by youtien:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11737716&postcount=111

It does take a lot of luck to have a satisfying result (reload for hut pops!).
You'll need to build Oracle and The Great Library as well.
In my opinion, both wonders are quite necessary.
Treat The Great Lighthouse and The Temple of Artemis as morphine for China as you try to keep going along.

 

[mykeedee]

Does anybody have a strategy for dealing with Rome as Persia? In my current game, the best I've been able to do is stalemate them in the west while trying to keep the barbs in the east at bay. Also the only way I've been able to seize their cities is with massive casualties and defense is almost untenable.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Does anybody have a strategy for dealing with Rome as Persia? In my current game, the best I've been able to do is stalemate them in the west while trying to keep the barbs in the east at bay. Also the only way I've been able to seize their cities is with massive casualties and defense is almost untenable.

Make sure you DoW them instead of them DoWing you.
That prevents them from gaining conquerors.
I skip Babylon entirely and just bum-rush Greece and Rome.
Supplement your stacks with mercenaries.
That's all I got (I've been able to capture Rome many times in DoC as Persia)
but I hope it helps. Keep in mind that it's highly luck-based as well.