Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Sep 11, 2014.
You want me to keep track for every unit from which direction they entered the territory?
well maybe just weakening the graphic and effect area of GW - instead of surrounding the perimeter of your-current-territory-upon-built, both the graphic and effect only apply to the northern border of your-current territory-upon-built. The effect stays the same. Maybe sort of reducing it to the WYSIWYG like one of the GW mod I've seen.
Let's say a bunch of Xiongnus wants to invade China from the North, they'll get effect from passing through the wall. However if these Xiongnus were more clever and motivated, then decided to invade from Dunhuang or Samarqand-India-Burma route, they can enter and attack China.
Yeah, but that's rather tedious because I have to keep track for every unit in the game whether they have entered China from the north as opposed to every other direction. That includes all units that never have and never will enter China. Not to mention that "north" is a very fuzzy term with no clear definition in the first place.
The Great Wall effect was specifically changed to reflect that it's not the physical wall that's stopping enemies, but the defensive/information infrastructure in the entire countryside. So that makes sense either way.
The graphic cannot be changed to do anything other than only encompassing the currently covered by your culture. It's hardcoded in the EXE and not exposed to modders.
Umm,what do you think about my idea Leoreth?
As a wise man once said:
^ I don't think it's wise to call yourself wise lol but never mind.
So... then I guess my idea of GW is very complicated then if that means you even have to track Mayan units' probability of entering Chinese territory.
What if we depart from Old Great Wall in favor of the new Wonder which will be called Great Wall, have no visible graphics and will simply create a series for Forts on every tile with the largest y-values of every valid x, which covered by the culture of the civ that builds it? Just bunch of free Forts. If you man them -- they will do something good to you, if you don't -- they will act like RL Wall in RL China. Or Hadrian wal if Romes build it.
That sounds useless, as you're going to expand beyond those borders and you're going to fill these tiles with cottages and so on.
I like the current effect, and I like the wall graphics.
I see no reason why anything should be changed
because, Great Wall has effect against Tibet and even Viet barbarians, that's why. Chinese built a northern wall spanning from Korea to Tibetan mountains, they didn't include the South. However, if is so difficult to mod it, ok we will accept it as it is.
As I said, the wonder is representative of more than the actual wall which was never very useful in actually stopping determined invaders.
I feel like a number of those proposed effects are going back into that "Don't know where north is until Compass" territory again.
It's kind of the wrong way to approach design for games, imo.
You think of an effect that relates heavily to its real life function or purpose,
without thinking about whether it would be fun in an actual game, you know.
The number one thing I always ask myself is: "Would I play this, or enjoy this mechanic?"
It's too convoluted. If the Great Wall had that effect, I think first-time players would get frustrated wondering why killing those Barbs were sometimes easy,
and sometimes their defenders would just get insta-gibbed. It's not intuitive.
No one expects to lose their bonus just because a unit attacked them from 1W as opposed to 1N.
Land forts are a massive fail even in base BtS in terms of fun design.
Chokes aren't prevalent on most maps and a fort is easily circumvented by, walking around it or landing troops on the other side, like in the case with the Sinai or with the Istanbul choke.
Assaulting a fort gets you nothing of value except a lot of wasted blood and treasure.
You don't deny the opponent anything and you lose a lot in the process; not to mention the trouble is easily avoided.
Before the changes that allowed you to access resources on islands in your BFC with a regular improvement, Forts had the function to help a player obtain them.
xcept they couldn't be worked for yields, or good yields at least. And Forts as canals are simply amazing.
It's that kind of useful functionality that Forts need more of if you want to make them viable enough to base a Wonder around.
Your idea is making me think though, about Civ5 citadels and what they do right:
They actually make people care about their presence. No one wants to take chip damage constantly from being in the vicinity.
If the Great Wall is to have any change, (I wouldn't prefer it)
An effect that would be superb, simple and fun to use, would be if the Great Wall produced the Russian UP effect;
to represent the information relay the Wall was used for by making the invaders vulnerable to attrition and attacks from all sides by defenders who know the land better.
It's still generally weak as a defensive effect, but that's a result of DoC being an up-tempo game.
If you really want to get into semantics about history. China had never ever had to worry about invasions from the south after the pacification and Sinification of the Baiyue.
Only in the modern era with the French.The Tibetan invasion was largely a one time thing and didn't achieve many substantial aims.
My point is, it's really inconsequential that the effect also happens to work on Barbs coming from Indochina and the Tibetan plateau.
Like really, it's a weird thing to get hung up on.
What do citadels in Civ5 do?
The civilopedia discription:
Natives shouldn't have UB. Seriously, seeing them building ikhandas in Danni Bàa is ridiculus.
Move corinthian marble to Athens tile. The marble was in fact in Attica and will make Athens the best spot again.
Exchange greek and roman archer ethnic styles. Rigth now roman archers are peltasts who were greek light infantry and not roman.
The city ethnic styles should remain geographically tied and not civ tied. For example, if China captures Samarquand, Samarquand buildings should be middle eastern and not Chinese!
Yeah, I think that or they should be tied to culture. Another example is me capturing Jerusalem from the Arabs and giving it to Korea. The buildings shouldn't magically become Korean.
Currently when the Aztec and Inca collapse, their cities become independent and are defended by 2 longbowmen each. I'd like to propose that they collapse to native/barb cities instead, because it doesn't make too much sense that those cities would suddenly learn how to make longbows when they had no prior knowledge as full fledged civs.
No, it wouldn't. It is more a matter of food resources than anything else. Quite simply, one wastes 2 seafood resources when one settles Athens over Corinth.
Something else to consider taking from Civ V: Wonders specific to a building (Great Lighthouse, Great Library, etc.) provide a free building in the city of the one that they "replace." It is sort of odd to have to build both the Great Library and a library in the same city.
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