As a French vassal, maybe...
But the entire focus of the United Italy was back onto Rome. Rome and Italy are in truth the same "civilization", as I understand it, the latter was added only so we wouldn't need a Rome respawn?
Suggestions for Dynamic Names
- Thread starter Leoreth
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But the entire focus of the United Italy was back onto Rome. Rome and Italy are in truth the same "civilization", as I understand it, the latter was added only so we wouldn't need a Rome respawn?
trexeric
(or backwards 'cirexert')
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(I haven't been with this mod as long as most others here (I've only really been playing it since version .9), so I don't necessarily know the reason Italy was added - but I'm sure you could find it if you go digging around the forum)
Anyway, the reason we wouldn't call the Italians the Roman Republic would be the same reason we don't call the Byzantines the Roman Empire: It's just easier.
Anyway, the reason we wouldn't call the Italians the Roman Republic would be the same reason we don't call the Byzantines the Roman Empire: It's just easier.
Daedwartin
Emperor
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You know, trolling is highly frowned on. Italy is a conditional spawn. It requires certain conditions be met before they spawn. The chances those conditions will exist is ridiculously tiny, though, as it depends on the amount of Independents in Italy...and Indies are generally the favorite place to conquer for a AI. Rome (the civ)always spawns. The chances the Celts beat them is slim. The Barbs do generally cause them to weaken and collapse them....but thats what happened historically. Good reason why the great wall is nice as Rome. They only survive to the modern day if the player plays rome. Plus, your source is stupid: unrecognized states that didn't last any time before getting crushed don't count.
now, stop, before people start pressing the report button,
"Pakistan" just meant Muslims in India originally. It didn't have any particular regional meaning until after Partition. Dominion of Pakistan is fine unless the Mughals convert to Hinduism (in which case British Raj or something similar is more appropriate).
IIRC, the Byzantines are called "Eastern Roman Empire" under certain circumstances, no?
1. Don't threaten me.
2. This is a "suggestions" forum, and there seemed to be confusion surrounding the Rome/Italy debate. As I have just, by coincidence, stumbled upon Italian government sources surrounding the founding of the Italian state, which, you may note, was not crushed but instead fought three wars against Prussia, France, and Austria in a number of permutations for its independence, I thought there may be something of use.
3. Dynamic names are useless for the AI; they couldn't care less. Regardless of how rare Italian spawning may be, if the player chooses them they WILL spawn, and it is for the player dynamic names are created.
4. Unrecognized states that existed don't count but ones you make up do? Come on.
Locutus_Morti
Prince
Civilization IV recognizes the differences between Civilizations through the use of Unique Unit, Unique Building, and Culture. To examine whether we should differentiate between the Romans and Italians, we should compare them in these matters.
Unique Unit: Legion
The Legion is an iconic Roman item. They were used by the Roman Emperors from around 140 BCE to around 470 CE. Did Italians organize into these superb military regiments? No.
Unique Building: Forum
Another cornerstone of Rome. Financial centers of cities, Forums were built by Emperors to facilitate trade. Were these used by Italians? In some cases, yes. But were they actively built, and to the same style and standard? No.
Culture
The largest question: Are Roman and Italian cultures similar? Sort of. Some Italians were no doubt inspired by the great achievements, but they were radically different. Until 313, Christianity was actively persecuted by the Romans. Traditionally, Italians were almost always Christian. Italy started a rebirth of Culture, famous for literature, music, and philosophy. Rome was, at it's core, a martial society. Gladiatorial matches were a common occurrence. A man was politically accomplished if he conquered new lands for the Empire. Are these cultures similar? No.
In short, they are radically different. Leoreth could code a special dynamic name for when Italy hold only one city with the name "Roma" and is also democratic, but would that really be worth our time?
And also, everybody take a chill pill. I'd rather not see this thread go the way of the Israel threads.
Unique Unit: Legion
The Legion is an iconic Roman item. They were used by the Roman Emperors from around 140 BCE to around 470 CE. Did Italians organize into these superb military regiments? No.
Unique Building: Forum
Another cornerstone of Rome. Financial centers of cities, Forums were built by Emperors to facilitate trade. Were these used by Italians? In some cases, yes. But were they actively built, and to the same style and standard? No.
Culture
The largest question: Are Roman and Italian cultures similar? Sort of. Some Italians were no doubt inspired by the great achievements, but they were radically different. Until 313, Christianity was actively persecuted by the Romans. Traditionally, Italians were almost always Christian. Italy started a rebirth of Culture, famous for literature, music, and philosophy. Rome was, at it's core, a martial society. Gladiatorial matches were a common occurrence. A man was politically accomplished if he conquered new lands for the Empire. Are these cultures similar? No.
In short, they are radically different. Leoreth could code a special dynamic name for when Italy hold only one city with the name "Roma" and is also democratic, but would that really be worth our time?
And also, everybody take a chill pill. I'd rather not see this thread go the way of the Israel threads.
trexeric
(or backwards 'cirexert')
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Yes, under the circumstance in which Rome is still alive, and Rome (I believe) would be called the Western Roman Empire. Otherwise it's called the Byzantine Empire, or some other civic combination (I have only seen Byzantine Empire in-game myself, as I rarely play the Byzantines).
Thank you for this. While my suggestion may have been confusing or "bad", I felt the need to defend it under attack. Didn't mean to start a flame war.
SeekTruthFromFacts
King
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If you're playing as Prussia, then you will see this text from AD 600 to 1700, a timespan for which "Prussian peoples" is more appropriate, covering everything from Baltic Slavs to Brandenburg.
I agree it looks strange if you're another player and suddenly see them appear in 1700. Perhaps it should be 'Electorate of Brandenburg', since in that first turn they are mingled with HRE (if game history is following RL).
Surely this is better for Italy as a French vassal?
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
SeekTruthFromFacts
King
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O tempora, o mores!
By the way, Google Translate turns "Vae victis, Italia" into "OH, Italy". The unusual spelling gives exactly the right tone of voice. :-;
It also took me several minutes to work why Vatican City was speaking Spanish.... then I suddenly realized that this must have been written in the last few weeks.... These troll cartoons usually annoy me but this one is excellent....
By the way, Google Translate turns "Vae victis, Italia" into "OH, Italy". The unusual spelling gives exactly the right tone of voice. :-;
It also took me several minutes to work why Vatican City was speaking Spanish.... then I suddenly realized that this must have been written in the last few weeks.... These troll cartoons usually annoy me but this one is excellent....
yurisusuki
Hope, Faith and love
The turkey is pointing the knife to austria is it?
Bair_the_Normal
転輪聖王
Yes, and for Americans, you'll see the text from either 3000 BC or 600 AD to 1776 AD. That argument doesn't work. I still think that the Prussians are best represented as they are currently.
SeekTruthFromFacts
King
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I just discovered (after successful peace negotiations!) that there's no special name for Prussia as a vassal of HRE/Austria. "Protectorate of Prussia" makes them seem like a colonized African or Asian state, which would not be the relationship. Perhaps....
If HRE = Electorate of Brandenburg
If Austria = Austrian Kingdom in Prussia
If HRE = Electorate of Brandenburg
If Austria = Austrian Kingdom in Prussia
Old habits die hard. It's just two drunk dude fighting... it wont go far.
However, I don't understand why the USSR is disappointed... I would of replace it by Napoleonic France.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Russia/USSR lost half of it's population after 1990?
Or Duchy of Prussia. It's what they were called before they became the Kingdom of Prussia.
yurisusuki
Hope, Faith and love
GDP in the 90's..oh god
Brazilian Empire could be there too
OH good times..Know the corrupt government makes the people believe that these are good times
soul-breathing
King
How about named it Australia when England has its capital in Australia? and same as Canada, and Argentina, Chile, Columbia for Spain?
And what is more crazy, named it Uzbekstan when Russian has it capital in Samarkand.
Actually we do it for Portugal when its capital in Brazil.
And what is more crazy, named it Uzbekstan when Russian has it capital in Samarkand.
Actually we do it for Portugal when its capital in Brazil.
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