Support in recent conflicts (poll)

[Earthman]

Let's see if my impression is correct.

 

[Ajidica]

Other: I support nobody in those conflicts and feel leaders on all sides are short-sighted and pursuing their stated goals of peace and conflict resolution in a manner that produces neither.

 

[Camikaze]

I like to think I support innocent people just wanting to live their lives without the risks of war. So I don't particularly support any particular state or state-like entity in these conflicts.

 

[Quackers]

I generally support Israel and Ukraine.

I don't 100% condone the actions of each side, that would be stupid, but on balance i've opted for those two.

I expect the majority of this forum will opt for Palestine + Ukraine.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Other: I support nobody in those conflicts and feel leaders on all sides are short-sighted and pursuing their stated goals of peace and conflict resolution in a manner that produces neither.

Yes. I don't like either side either.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Other: I support nobody in those conflicts and feel leaders on all sides are short-sighted and pursuing their stated goals of peace and conflict resolution in a manner that produces neither.

I like to think I support innocent people just wanting to live their lives without the risks of war. So I don't particularly support any particular state or state-like entity in these conflicts.

I can agree with these viewpoints.

I suppose nominally speaking I support Palestine and Ukraine, but that's only if I had to pick someone. I know people in real life who support both, and/or are have connections to their homelands as such, so I dunno, it doesn't feel right to me to be so vocal towards one side or the other, particularly in the case of Israel-Palestine.

 

[Narz]

I don't support any national military, they're corrupt blood profiteers, just wars & just armies are like bluemoons. Perhaps the UN peacekeeping force has potential to be a just army but in the real world how can they function in a sea of shady politics?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I expect the majority of this forum will opt for Palestine + Ukraine.

I expect you to come up with all kinds of reasons when this doesn't happen.

I'm hoping you'll prove me wrong

 

[hangman]

Palestine (not Hamas though!), but Ukraine I'm iffy on. Ukraine seems to gone past the point of conclusive moral opinions IMHO.

 

[classical_hero]

Without the support of Russia, the Rebels would have been defeated a long time ago.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I like to think I support innocent people just wanting to live their lives without the risks of war. So I don't particularly support any particular state or state-like entity in these conflicts.

 

[Antilogic]

I like to think I support innocent people just wanting to live their lives without the risks of war. So I don't particularly support any particular state or state-like entity in these conflicts.

Same here. Of course, what I'm accused of is another matter.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Palestine (not Hamas though!), but Ukraine I'm iffy on. Ukraine seems to gone past the point of conclusive moral opinions IMHO.

I wonder, would you support Israel when it's government is taken out of the equation?

I am guessing by support for Palestine (sanse Hamas) you mean it's population.

 

[hangman]

I wonder, would you support Israel when it's government is taken out of the equation?

I am guessing by support for Palestine (sanse Hamas) you mean it's population.

Essentially yes and yes. AFAIK the general Israeli population is not as rabidly conservative as their current government seems to be.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I support Ukraine's right to sign trade agreements with whomever they like. I don't know if I support the separatists in wanting to secede or not, and I don't know if I trust Putin. As a student of history, I find any talk of protecting ethnic XYZs in other countries and annexing territory by force a little bit alarming. While I can see both the Israeli and the Palestinian perspectives, I'm not sure if their disagreements are really intractable and their positions mutually exclusive, or if they're just being tools.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Essentially yes and yes. AFAIK the general Israeli population is not as rabidly conservative as their current government seems to be.

In that case, why make the distinction?

 

[Phrossack]

The Israeli and Palestinian leadership are both dominated by bitter, angry, irrational people with no regard for human life.

The Ukrainian government is criminally incompetent and a loose collection of disparate, irrational groups, including many violent extremists.

The Donetsk rebels are violent extremists who killed hundreds of civilians and made a clumsy attempt to cover it up.

Don't even get me started on Russia.

 

[hangman]

In that case, why make the distinction?

I view the opinions of the state as separate beast from the opinions of the populace for a couple of reasons. First, there is often a disproportionate and distorted representation of the populace's opinions through the state mechanism. Second, there are often systemic biases in the way a state functions that tends to produce results that are undesirable to the populace.

A good example would be that the US's state mechanism allows heavy lobbying in the legislative branch. Even though the vast majority of Americans support universal background checks for gun buyers, the NRA's lobby has so far been successful in quashing most legislative efforts to do so.

 

[Wrymouth3]

Let me make it clear that when I say I support "Palestine" I support it's actual denizens that are not Hamas, Fatah, or the PFLP. I think we can all agree that those orginizations are filled with more awful people than sane people.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I view the opinions of the state as separate beast from the opinions of the populace for a couple of reasons. First, there is often a disproportionate and distorted representation of the populace's opinions through the state mechanism. Second, there are often systemic biases in the way a state functions that tends to produce results that are undesirable to the populace.

No I understand that, and that's a very sensible approach.

But you said you support Palestine, taking Hamas out of the equation. I wondered why you'd not support Israel, taking it's government out of the equation.

Or to put it in negatives: Not support Palestine, putting Hamas back into the equation, or not supporting Israel, putting it's government back into the equation.

And I typo'd Putin once while trying to write putting. I'm being manipulated

Let me make it clear that when I say I support "Palestine" I support it's actual denizens that are not Hamas, Fatah, or the PFLP. I think we can all agree that those orginizations are filled with more awful people than sane people.

In that case, same question to you as to Hangman. Why grant Palestine the benefit of disregarding it's governing body, but not Israel.

I am assuming your beef is mainly with the Israeli government. If that assumption is incorrect, then forget I asked