Syria again - your solutions?

[Agarwaen]

So, anyone knows what the Turks responded? Are there angry turks on the street calling for actions against Syria like happened against Israel?

 

[Winner]

There's no official confirmation. It might have been an accident.

 

[kramerfan86]

There's no official confirmation. It might have been an accident.

I hope it was an accident plane or pilot wise, how stupid would Syria be to be shooting at anything in the air over the Mediterranean?

 

[Winner]

BBC BREAKING NEWS:

Turkey says it believes Syria shot down one of its military jets near their common border

Notice the part that it "believes".

I hope it was an accident plane or pilot wise, how stupid would Syria be to be shooting at anything in the air over the Mediterranean?

Well, assuming the plane was actually shot down and it wasn't the Turks who did it (accidentally, such things happen), then it might have been a trigger-happy Syrian SAM operator, or even the rebels themselves (I guess pinning such thing on Assad isn't beyond them). It could of course be a strategy of the regime to create tension with a powerful neighbour to rally the nationalists to its cause.

 

[Absolution]

So, anyone knows what the Turks responded? Are there angry turks on the street calling for actions against Syria like happened against Israel?

Turkey doesn't have to respond.
Everybody knows what they think about Assad.

 

[Agarwaen]

Turkey doesn't have to respond.
Everybody knows what they think about Assad.

They don't need to respond by war, but if they believe it was the Syrian army that shoot down their jet, they can at least demand apologies.

 

[trader/warrior]

There was a Syrian jet that escaped over to Jordan just a few days ago. Perhaps Syrian air defenses got a shoot on sight order to prevent such embarrasments and mistook the turkish jet for another deserter.

Assuming it's true at all ofc.

 

[aronnax]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18561219

Syrian military says it downed Turkish fighter jet

The Syrian military has said it shot down a Turkish plane "flying in airspace over Syrian waters", according to state-run news agency Sana.

So Syria has claimed it. Technically, Syria has the right to shoot down planes in her airspace if they were indeed violating it, but in her current circumstance, she should have tried to intercept and ground the plane or order it to turn back then fire first, ask questions later.

 

[Cutlass]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18561219



So Syria has claimed it. Technically, Syria has the right to shoot down planes in her airspace if they were indeed violating it, but in her current circumstance, she should have tried to intercept and ground the plane or order it to turn back then fire first, ask questions later.

That's a remarkably stupid thing to have done. Their most powerful immediate neighbor is deeply unhappy with them, so they piss them off even more.

 

[innonimatu]

No, it's not. If the turks have decided to go to war they'll go anyway, don't need this as an excuse. If they haven't (which seems to be the case) it isn't one downed jet that'll make them go to war.
Not trying to shoot down that jet would only encourage further probing of syrian airspace by a hostile power, who knows with what intentions. This way they've made it clear that won't be tolerated. It may also possibly be about passing the message that no "no-fly zone" will be imposed without the costs and risks of a war.

The turks realistically have nothing to gain from a war against Syria. Occupying it would be a quagmire for them, expensive in finance and lifes, and guaranteed to earn them the enmity of many arabs, especially in Iraq. Any promises of support from the us or the saudis cannot be trusted - no vital local interest binds those players to any promises. The alternative - conquer Damascus and try to set up a pro-turk government - is even more foolish: Syria is too much of a mess for any such quick move make a new government stick. And in any of these cases a turkish invasion risks prompting a fierce nationalist arab response against it: turk imperial ambitions and all that...
This is a chicken game and Turkey is being called. The question is: can their government be so foolish as to jump in against all reason?

 

[red_elk]

To me it looks like a provocation from Turkish side, and showing teeth from Syrian. Or it could be something else, anyway we don't have all the information to judge whether it was a stupid move or not.

 

[danjuno]

That's a remarkably stupid thing to have done. Their most powerful immediate neighbor is deeply unhappy with them, so they piss them off even more.

Isn't Turkey a member of NATO as well? I'm interested to how this will affect the current deadlock between Russia and the West over sanctions.

 

[r16]

oh yeah , as it would be expected the first casualty of the yet undeclared No-Fly zone over Syria has been a Turkish Air Force jet ; as reported with a little anguish on the face of a female news anchor . It is not an exactly an r16 thing that people turn into lions when it comes to fighting us . Israel might solemnly declare Turkey is a superpower and it has to be true because we are "enemies" with Tel Aviv ? Of course not , they just want us to go in . All the experts talk of invincible NATO airpower , cheap glories , operations as safe as computer games ; yeah , but not when we are flying . This RF-4E declared missing in Syrian territorial waters , just normal stuff . Also normal was the Turkish media , with no up-to-date info anybody said anything . Americans reportedly blaming El Kaide . For the last time : Usame's bunch is called the principle , not the baseplate .

now naturally on the basis of who breaks it , pays it . And if Americans need to keep tabs on Russian smugglers let them fly themselves , trust me they are brave as you are . Even let them fight on their own , if this is ever possible . They might call you names , even on web sites there are bound to be people who will call you second rate . Here ı am to defend you in the r16 way...

now , years back there were military exercises near my town and the jets were causing a commotion overheard . Tired of the noise ı opened the door and made an awful hand sign . The glint of the sun from the window of the door noticed , the RF immediately made a 180 degrees roll and the crew searching and the plane ready to unload in any required direction ... Equipment and weapons are 2nd rate , have been saying that for a long time .

though when we say we are not going it means we are not going .

we certainly do not care the opportunities of the Arab Spring melting away . Let them melt ; we don't need blood on our hands to be great . Nobody intends to give anything to Turkey anyhow , apart from lost lives , backbreaking expense and eventual doom . We are the laughing stock of the world with democrats yet again after coup plotters as the revolution in Eygpt totters with the the military there striking back , at least until Sunday . What , isn't the entire Turkish military tamed yet ? Listens to the experts , they now say Saudis don't like the Islamic Brotherhood as they are sort of independent . And why should they be listening to us in that case ?

this post of course assumes we lost a jet ; and it is not some media trick to get us in . The experts are having a field day . OneTurkish national , pro new elites though former military himself was on the air claiming Turkey mostly lies and the "Israeli" action is acceptable ; ı think he "accuses" the Israelis to have hit the plane and surely for the notion of spine in my country that passes unnoticed . There is no F-34 , even if there is , it surely must be better than the abomination called F-35 and wouldn't esteemed experts agree we should go and buy it instead ? A certain channel has downloaded F-4K/M footage from the web ; they are British versions retired long ago . And before the shootdown the thing of the media was how a guy fell down into the metro tunnel under construction when pavement gave way right in front of the Air Forces HQ in Ankara , he was found dead 16.5 hours later ...

but nothin' matters when experts are around . Now that it has been suggested Article 5 is broken , there is always Article 4 . It won't last long . Even in this thread one can see people are so ready to hold the coat and shout "Bravo Capitano"...

 

[Absolution]

They don't need to respond by war, but if they believe it was the Syrian army that shoot down their jet, they can at least demand apologies.

The purpose in demanding apologies from Israel was to harm the Israeli foreign relations.
But Syria is already criticised enough, and there is no need to make an issue of any event like this.

 

[Quackers]

I was looking forward to a good Turkey-Syrian war. Would make for interesting news

 

[Cutlass]

Isn't Turkey a member of NATO as well? I'm interested to how this will affect the current deadlock between Russia and the West over sanctions.

It only Becomes a NATO issue if Syria actually attacks Turkey and Turkey asks for NATO assistance. As long as it remains a border squabble, and Turkey by far the stronger conventional military, NATO isn't likely to be sucked in.

 

[red_elk]

The cargo ship "Alaed" with military helicopters for Assad government will return to Syria under Russian flag.

During a briefing in Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs in the afternoon June 21 it was said that Russian freighter Alaed is now sailing to Murmansk port, Barents sea, to change the flag from Curacao to Russian, and then the vessel will resume its’ original voyage. That’s a very serious statement, firstly, because Russia officially confirmed the involvement in the Alaed incident, and secondly, because Russia openly challenged the Western ban on arms supply to Syria. If Western navies would try to stop m/v Alaed sailing under Russian flag, such an act may be considered by Russia as a hostile act, violating international maritime laws and Russia’s right to supply to Syria whatever Russia has to under previously achieved agreements. Legally Russia is in full right to ship anything to Syrian government, as long as there is no UN ban, recognized as compulsory by all the international community. Russia’s determination to ship the helicopters by no other means, but by m/v Alaed seems to be rather odd, is it just a belligerence or is such a headlong stubbornness fuelled by some kind of power play in high places, or maybe by somebody’s strong interest?

http://www.odin.tc/news/read.asp?articleID=992

Alaed is delivering export version of Mi-24 "Hind" helicopters, after planned service.

Spoiler :

 

[Neomega]

It must be noted, those helicopters were already Syria's.

 

[Neomega]

An interesting article by Alex Thomson, a Western Journalist, allowed into rebel controlled territory. HE is now convinced, he was set up to be killed by the FSA.

Set up to be shot in Syria's no-man's land?
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/hostile-territory/1863

We are led another route. Led in fact, straight into a free-fire zone. Told by the Free Syrian Army to follow a road that was blocked off in the middle of no-man’s-land.

At that point there was the crack of a bullet and one of the slower three-point turns I’ve experienced. We screamed off into the nearest side-street for cover.

Another dead-end.

There was no option but to drive back out onto the sniping ground and floor it back to the road we’d been led in on.

Predictably the black car was there which had led us to the trap. They roared off as soon as we re-appeared.

I’m quite clear the rebels deliberately set us up to be shot by the Syrian Army. Dead journos are bad for Damascus.

Please, do not for one me moment believe that my experience with the rebels in al Qusair was a one-off.

This morning I received the following tweet:

“@alextomo I read your piece “set up to be shot in no mans land”, I can relate as I had that same experience in Al Zabadani during our tour.”

That was from Nawaf al Thani, who is a human rights lawyer and a member of the Arab League Observer mission to Syria earlier this year.

It has to make you wonder who else has had this experience when attempting to find out what is going on in rebel-held Syria.

 

[The_Tyrant]

The media is hyping the so called "killings". Stay on Putin's good side, and ignore Syria.