Syrian Civil War: World Leaders Try Again

red_elk said:
Regardless of who shot it down, why it should be qualified as terrorism?
Last time I checked even those who blame rebels in shooting it down, claim that they did it by mistake.
Click to expand...



I was using the term "terrorism" in the sense that 'rebels shot down a civilian airliner (one that was from a non-warring faction of the conflict)'.

That said, I suppose that when you take into account that there is no accepted legal definition for terrorism (more than 100 different definitions of the term), perhaps using the term is troublesome.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_terrorism

I withdraw my prior comment.
 
useless said:
Yeah... about that...

No.
Click to expand...
I haven't even heard a single conspiracy theory crazy enough to suggest the rebels had any intention to actually target a civilian airliner. They believed they shot down Ukrainian military transport.

If you are looking for "terrorist acts" committed by rebels, this might fit the bill better.
 
chijohnaok said:
Well there was that Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 that "may have" been shot down by Russian separatists (or Russian little green men).
Click to expand...

1. Still not proved to be so. That is right.
2. Even if it was shot down by them, it is not a terrorist act but an accident.

Civil planes should not fly over a warzone. And if they do, someone is probably keeping them there on purpose for such accidents to happen, probably deliberately sending them where the risk of an accident is the highest.

Incomparably more civilian population is killed by the Maidanist side (Kiev) than were on this plane, but the West has been supporting the Maidanists since day one, giving them all including weapons, and so contributing to the civil deaths and the accident with this plane btw too.

Media coverage of the civil casualties in Donbass is tiny compared to the stir with this single accident. While it is obvious which side do the atrocities. Somehow the plane is an international globally significant accident and the civilian losses of the Southeastern Ukraine are not.

More people died on the Russian plane in Egypt than in Paris, still the latter is a much bigger event in the media and emotionally deeper.

It seems as if some lifes are more precious than others for the Western democracy™ depending on geography, culture, language, religion. This is loosely called racism.
 
chijohnaok said:
That said, I suppose that when you take into account that there is no accepted legal definition for terrorism (more than 100 different definitions of the term), perhaps using the term is troublesome.
Click to expand...
It's almost universally agreed that it has a goal of inducing terror and achieving political (or military) goals as a result of it.
 
Ah yes the ol' "everyone is a russophobe and hates us", if you can't tell the difference between hating the government of a country and the people in it, that's your problem to deal with.
 
Who were the rebels trying to terrorise? The malasyans? When this sort of things happens i try to find a reason behind. So i am not taking side with the rebelds even for a second but i also think it was a stupid mistake in the middle of the battle.
 
useless said:
Ah yes the ol' "everyone is a russophobe and hates us", if you can't tell the difference between hating the government of a country and the people in it, that's your problem to deal with.
Click to expand...

NATO is racist. Look what they've done with the Islamic world!

Russophoby is only a case of the general xenophoby and aggression based on the principle "you are not like us, so we either just kill you or kill you converting to being like us". The only difference with Russia is that you can't rape it like smaller countries such as Iraq or Syria. That's why you need so much anti-Russian propaganda and public relations work.
 
Cough.
So, back to su-24:
Not everything is fully clear still, hm?
The only changes I noticed are in statement of Ministry of Defence. (mil.ru)
The first one was: su-24 crashed
And the second one four hours later: su-24 was shot down by turkish f-16.
Point of no-return, eh? ;D
 
I think everything is rather clear. Plane took a shortcut over a strip of Turkish territory.

Turks, having issued numerous warnings to Russia during last weeks, stood by their words and shot it down.

Russian pilots will probably be more careful in the future, while Turkey continues to be an embarrassment for anti-ISIS coalition.
 
Its a mess. Russia is figting IS so do Kurds. I can see an alliance there. When Kurds are going to be poised on creating their own state out of Turkish and other territories they can surely use Russian help...
 
It would be a wise decision for Turkish jets now, not to approach Russian, Armenian or Syrian borders. May be even Greek and Cyprus airspace too.
 
kramerfan86 said:
Turkey is a useless ally
Click to expand...

Seems to me it's more than useful for it's true allies.


Details from Putins statement today:


"This event is beyond the normal framework of fighting against terrorism. Of course our military is doing heroic work against terrorism... But the loss today is a stab in the back, carried out by the accomplices of terrorists. I can’t describe it in any other way. Our aircraft was downed over the territory of Syria, using air-to-air missile from a Turkish F-16. It fell on the Syrian territory 4km from Turkey."
"Neither our pilots nor our jet threatened the territory of Turkey. This is obvious. They are fighting terrorists in the northern areas around Latakia, where militants are located, mainly people who originated in Russia, and they were pursuing their direct duty, to make sure these people do not return to Russia. These are people who are clearly international terrorists."

"Taking into account that we signed an agreement on deconflicting with the US, and as we know Turkey was among the ones that has joined the US coalition. Since Isis has such huge resources of hundreds of millions and billions of dollars coming from illicit oil sales, and they are protected by the armed forces of other states, then it’s clear why they are so brazen, why they are killing people, why they are carrying out terrorist attacks throughout the world including in the heart of Europe."

"We will analyse everything, and today’s tragic event will have significant consequences, including for Russia-Turkish relations. We have always treated Turkey as a friendly state. I don’t know who was interested in what happened today, certainly not us. And instead of immediately getting in contact with us, as far as we know, the Turkish side immediately turned to their partners from Nato to discuss this incident, as if we shot down their plane and not they ours."

"Do they want to make Nato serve ISIS? I understand that every state has its own regional interests and we’ve always respected that, but we will never allow the kind of crime that happened to today to take place. And of course we hope that the international community will find the strength to come together and fight against the common evil."

"We have long been recording the movement of a large amount of oil and petroleum products to Turkey from Isis-occupied territories. This explains the significant funding the terrorists are receiving. Now they are stabbing us in the back by hitting our planes that are fighting terrorism. This is happening despite the agreement we have signed with our American partners to prevent air incidents, and, as you know, Turkey is among those who are supposed to be fighting terrorism within the American coalition."
Click to expand...
 
I don't know what qualifies them as an ally in a first place. IS is trading oil and terrorists via Turkish border. Which Turks are unable to seal. They rather seal their airspace from Russia.
 
Lavrov cancelled his visit to Turkey.
Foreign ministry recommended Russian tourists to refrain from visiting Turkey (TBH, it had to be done right after Egypt events).

Putin said:
the Turkish side immediately turned to their partners from Nato to discuss this incident
Click to expand...
They simply switched to "OMFG!" mode.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Bonyduck Campersang
Middle East thread
6 7 8
Replies
145
Views
7K
r16
r16
Crezth
World War 3
5 6 7
Replies
134
Views
5K
Birdjaguar
Birdjaguar
C
DeSantis Cuts and Runs, Backs Trump.
2
Replies
25
Views
1K
Hygro
Hygro
Estebonrober
  • Locked
Maidan
5 6 7
Replies
136
Views
4K
lymond
lymond
Crezth
  • Locked
How much war score is posting?
Replies
13
Views
673
Arakhor
Arakhor
Top Bottom