Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Ajidica, Sep 28, 2015.
A tragic mistake?
Yeah... about that...
Make up your mind, friend.
Also, reading the definition of the word "terrorism" wouldn't hurt.
I was using the term "terrorism" in the sense that 'rebels shot down a civilian airliner (one that was from a non-warring faction of the conflict)'.
That said, I suppose that when you take into account that there is no accepted legal definition for terrorism (more than 100 different definitions of the term), perhaps using the term is troublesome.
I withdraw my prior comment.
I haven't even heard a single conspiracy theory crazy enough to suggest the rebels had any intention to actually target a civilian airliner. They believed they shot down Ukrainian military transport.
If you are looking for "terrorist acts" committed by rebels, this might fit the bill better.
One of the dead pilots (the one that was featured in a couple of videos) has been identified:
1. Still not proved to be so. That is right.
2. Even if it was shot down by them, it is not a terrorist act but an accident.
Civil planes should not fly over a warzone. And if they do, someone is probably keeping them there on purpose for such accidents to happen, probably deliberately sending them where the risk of an accident is the highest.
Incomparably more civilian population is killed by the Maidanist side (Kiev) than were on this plane, but the West has been supporting the Maidanists since day one, giving them all including weapons, and so contributing to the civil deaths and the accident with this plane btw too.
Media coverage of the civil casualties in Donbass is tiny compared to the stir with this single accident. While it is obvious which side do the atrocities. Somehow the plane is an international globally significant accident and the civilian losses of the Southeastern Ukraine are not.
More people died on the Russian plane in Egypt than in Paris, still the latter is a much bigger event in the media and emotionally deeper.
It seems as if some lifes are more precious than others for the Western democracy™ depending on geography, culture, language, religion. This is loosely called racism.
It's almost universally agreed that it has a goal of inducing terror and achieving political (or military) goals as a result of it.
Ah yes the ol' "everyone is a russophobe and hates us", if you can't tell the difference between hating the government of a country and the people in it, that's your problem to deal with.
Who were the rebels trying to terrorise? The malasyans? When this sort of things happens i try to find a reason behind. So i am not taking side with the rebelds even for a second but i also think it was a stupid mistake in the middle of the battle.
NATO is racist. Look what they've done with the Islamic world!
Russophoby is only a case of the general xenophoby and aggression based on the principle "you are not like us, so we either just kill you or kill you converting to being like us". The only difference with Russia is that you can't rape it like smaller countries such as Iraq or Syria. That's why you need so much anti-Russian propaganda and public relations work.
So, back to su-24:
Not everything is fully clear still, hm?
The only changes I noticed are in statement of Ministry of Defence. (mil.ru)
The first one was: su-24 crashed
And the second one four hours later: su-24 was shot down by turkish f-16.
Point of no-return, eh? ;D
Putin said on TV, that the plane was shot down by Turkey.
I think everything is rather clear. Plane took a shortcut over a strip of Turkish territory.
Turks, having issued numerous warnings to Russia during last weeks, stood by their words and shot it down.
Russian pilots will probably be more careful in the future, while Turkey continues to be an embarrassment for anti-ISIS coalition.
Its a mess. Russia is figting IS so do Kurds. I can see an alliance there. When Kurds are going to be poised on creating their own state out of Turkish and other territories they can surely use Russian help...
It would be a wise decision for Turkish jets now, not to approach Russian, Armenian or Syrian borders. May be even Greek and Cyprus airspace too.
Turkey is a useless ally
Seems to me it's more than useful for it's true allies.
Details from Putins statement today:
I don't know what qualifies them as an ally in a first place. IS is trading oil and terrorists via Turkish border. Which Turks are unable to seal. They rather seal their airspace from Russia.
Lavrov cancelled his visit to Turkey.
Foreign ministry recommended Russian tourists to refrain from visiting Turkey (TBH, it had to be done right after Egypt events).
They simply switched to "OMFG!" mode.
Separate names with a comma.