The Abortion and Vaccination Thread

[MaryKB]

Also, she can only have sex a few days a month because of her body, but you don't have any limitations even though you're always fertile. You don't even have to think about it, so all the stress is on her tracking her cycle. You could easily do a little thing to remedy this.

And as someone who does track her cycle for birth control, I still panic everytime until I get my period and I can be sure. You have no idea what that's like.

 

[Farm Boy]

Dudes may not have to think about it, but that does not mean we don't.

From somebody who 12 times a year gets the question answered, "did I accidentally kill my best friend this month?" I think lots of people have lots of ideas of what shared vulnerability is like.

 

[El_Machinae]

I don't like to talk about the responsibility, especially when creating broad categories. Individual scenarios, sure I can think of a breakdown for responsibility. Obvious situations are obviously different

When we talk about burden, I think it is important to realize that the basal state is that the woman risks the majority of the physical burden. After that, personal responsibility and legal responsibilities kick in to increase the net burden. And that might be distributed equally or not.

But it doesn't change the basal physical responsibility, before interventions

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Dudes may not have to think about it, but that does not mean we don't.

From somebody who 12 times a year gets the question answered, "did I accidentally kill my best friend this month?" I think lots of people have lots of ideas of what shared vulnerability is like.

This is a bit cryptic, but if I am reading it correctly the solution is a vasectomy.

 

[MaryKB]

So please tell me, when's the last time you thought "If I have unprotected sex today, is it one of those days where I'm fertile and may cause a pregnancy?"

Or even better, "If I have sex today, am I at risk for becoming pregnant?"

 

[Timsup2nothin]

At risk of derailing the thread I'll just throw this out there...yes, I have used my vasectomy scars to close the deal.

 

[Farm Boy]

This is a bit cryptic, but if I am reading it correctly the solution is a vasectomy.

Life makes no promises, even if we do. A vasectomy is becoming more appealing as the years grind on. In the meantime, there is control. It's highly effective. And failing to worry, plan, or take responsibility is an evil damned luxury to practice or presume. There is a lot of control to be had, if one doesn't presume, "Oh yes, vaginal ejaculation plox!"

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Life makes no promises, even if we do. A vasectomy is becoming more appealing as the years grind on. In the meantime, there is control. And failing to worry, plan, or take responsibility is an evil damned luxury to practice or presume.

Maybe. But if the consequences are sufficiently dire relying on control and planning can drift beyond avoiding evil luxury and into foolish arrogance.

 

[Farm Boy]

There is a lot of control to be had. YesSexPlease is not default behavior. Or, rather, if it is, let's say I'm happy to call that what it is.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

There is a lot of control to be had. YesSexPlease is not default behavior. Or, rather, if it is, let's say I'm happy to call that what it is.

I've actually met a whole lot of people for whom that actually was default behavior, so many that I wouldn't call it anything but pretty ordinary. Sure, there's plenty of "control to be had," but the implication that there is some virtue basis behind that control I think is a stretch. Sex is good, healthy, and if done properly has no discernible negative consequences. I don't see the virtues in abstinence.

 

[Farm Boy]

We spend a 9 page thread talking about consequence, deliberate about risk to self and others, and then can find no virtue in temporary willful abstinence rather than, "Yes, every opportunity. No care or planning. That doesn't make me a shithead garbagebag of a person at all."?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

We spend a massive thread talking about consequence, deliberate about risk to self and others, and then can find no virtue in temporary willful abstinence rather than, "Yes, every opportunity. That doesn't make me a ****head garbagebag of a person at all."?

Note the "if done properly has no discernible negative consequences." For example, you claim to worry on a monthly basis that despite all your 'virtuous' planning and restraint and blah blah blah that you may face an inadvertent catastrophe...but when offered a path to avoid the possible catastrophe you cling to the signals of your virtue rather than secure the safety. Is your partner that is directly at risk as committed to your virtue signals as you are? Do you ever wonder if that partner might be relieved to be able to say "sex, yes, more please" without having to worry about potential bad consequences that are clearly worse for her than they are for you?

I can say from experience that there are women in the world who don't like some methods of birth control, genuinely cannot use others, and are left stuck with methods to use that no matter how diligent they are they never really feel comfortable that they will be effective enough...and when they encounter the certainty and security of "man with vasectomy" so they can finally relax they think it is some sort of gift from god, whether there is any apparent virtue in the particular man or not.

 

[Farm Boy]

Virtue? Taking care is not virtue. Worrying commensurate with harm predictable is not virtue. It's baseline minimal acceptable non-monstrous behavior. If there's a concern about pregnancy going on, there might, just might, maybe be more than one issue. Ones that make a vasectomy in your 20/30s premature. Life makes no goddamned promises, and sometimes you have to accept that people are willing to make temporary sacrifices in "omg the sex must be vaginal and now now now" when it comes to the structure of your life, your partner's life, and the fact that we cannot control everything. In order to love, you must be willing to believe that you can also be loved.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Admittedly, having gotten a vasectomy at 21 skews my views.

 

[Farm Boy]

And not having the children we have wished colors ours.

But yes, as to the question posed - do you comprehend the severity of the issue at hand, the intimate risks posed, the possible repercussion? Well, yes. Anyone who cares about their partner does. Anyone who doesn't is at best fooling themselves.

 

[metalhead]

Leaving rapes out of the picture, it seems like women bear some responsibility for allowing such ejaculations to happen in a place where they might result in pregnancy...

If I invite you into my house, and then without making sure it is OK, you walk in with your shoes on and track mud into my house - is it my fault that my floor is now muddy?

 

[Lexicus]

If I invite you into my house, and then without making sure it is OK, you walk in with your shoes on and track mud into my house - is it my fault that my floor is now muddy?

I would think that, yes, by inviting someone into your house you are also accepting that there is some risk they might make a mess.

 

[El_Machinae]

As I said, I don't really care who's at 'fault' for a pregnancy. They happen, and some are unwanted. What does responsibility have to do with that? Well, I guess it has to do with bearing any resulting burden. So, that's decided at the individual level. Best you can do is create rules-of-thumb. What does a 50% responsibility look like, given that the female is then bearing the physical brunt of every single decision?

 

[MaryKB]

A better analogy is when someone invites himself over to your house and you're socially pressured to let him in so he can eat your food. And his boots are covered in a muck which not only permantly stains your carpets but also grows into a blob that forever disrupts your life in every way.

 

[Lexicus]

As I said, I don't really care who's at 'fault' for a pregnancy. They happen, and some are unwanted. What does responsibility have to do with that? Well, I guess it has to do with bearing any resulting burden. So, that's decided at the individual level. Best you can do is create rules-of-thumb. What does a 50% responsibility look like, given that the female is then bearing the physical brunt of every single decision?

I don't really care either. But pregnancy is just one of the reasons I think men in general should be reflecting more and having bad (bad meaning both unethical and unpleasurable) sex less. The way we are socialized to think about sex is deeply unhealthy and takes virtually no account of the perspective of our partners.