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The Flying Dutchmen - Deity Adventures

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by uberfish, Sep 9, 2007.

  1. fed1943

    fed1943 Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
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    1,185
    Location:
    Lisbon
    I never won a deity game.

    Will give it a try.

    Best regards,
     
  2. Johan^^

    Johan^^ Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
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    201
    First of all, ill just start out by saying that i normaly play Emp. so im not use to deity AI´s starting bonus etc.

    I´ve played until 1460 BC and would like some comments on my starting game.
    I´ll post my game in spoilers, so people that do not want to know the surroundings should not open the spoilers, due to screenshots.


    The tactic I´m going for is a fast great spy for stealing some Techs from the AI due to the fact that they will properly tech faster then I, thus this means building the great wall even dutch isen´t Industrius. After this is completed the Alphabet will be a priority for spys and tech trading if possible to backfill all the starting techs ill be missing.... So here goes my first deity game

    Spoiler :

    First build is a workboat, then a worker. The research is mining/BW to chop and mines those hills. Masonry will be next ..



    Choped 2. workboat @ 3000 BC



    The explorations of the map showed that we have some secure land to the north so expanding south first will be the best choice i think.
    Some exploration to the south




    Native Americans... well not to bad, though the have a huge army so they will likely take the nice barb city :(
    The Great Wall finished ! As you can see i have 3 mined hills and 2 workboats giving me 5 very nice titles to work at maximum happycap... I have not used the whip, though i normally use it alot in the beginning/early/mid game.

    And just to have a look at my tech tree --> going for Alphabet early hoping to backfill techs and/or steal them with the use of a settled great spy.



    Bah! while i was building my first settler to move south the freaking barbs created a city around the spot i had in mind :crazyeye:



    2. city placement! I´m going for 3 S and 1 E of my capital to claime the 2 craps for food and gold/science



    Chopping the hill-forest to get the workboat out fast. This will not be a problem due to the +2 culture we have :D



    The barb city next to the native americans was captured by them around 1800 BC.
    The 2. workboat is on the way in my 2. city now. The timing of the first workboat matched exatly the turn at which my boarders poped. :D



    The barb city next to be got razed so I´m going to try and settle there...



    So my settler has arrived at the spot ready to settle. I´ve played until 1440BC, so a few turns more than 1500BC though this was an important thing to see if i would make it to the site in time. :) Right now i´m thinking; maybe i would try to settle even further south to capture land and rush another settler to settle above. Maybe 3. city next to the gems and the 4. city on top of the LUX above the river, 1 W of the suggested...



    And just a quick look at my empire ....





    So how did i do on my first turns of Deity game ?
     
  3. Johan^^

    Johan^^ Warlord

    Joined:
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    It should be said that i normally go for something a bit inspired by obsolete, though with greater expansion of my empire and cottages in some of my later cities. Í must admit that i have not experimented on the lightbulbing for beeling certain tech, so i usually settle GP or start a cheap golden age(mid/late)...:goodjob:

    Thus in this Deity game i didn´t think i could pull it off and went with another starting strat. Great spy for cheap techs :lol: (I hope) :p
     
  4. colony

    colony Slow Typer

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
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    574
    Location:
    UK
    I've never actually played on Deity before, I normally play on Emperor, or Immortal if I want to be given a good beating, so I'm not going to win this game, but I played up to 1600 BC anyway.

    Spoiler :

    I started with a boat, then went Worker, Boat, Warrior. Research went AH -> Mining -> BW -> Wheel -> Pottery -> Writing. I've started researching Alphabet, but it still has 18 turns left (only just started the Library in Amsterdam). I was surprised by the barbs, I wasn't expecting them to attack so early, and had to let them pillage the pigs. I built Utrecht 1S of the horses. I've just got a 2nd Settler out and I'm unsure about where to put my 3rd city. I'm tempted to found on the Horses to the South to claim the Sugar, Gems and Spices and seal off the peninsula, but I don't like founding on resources, and until I get IW I can't do much there, except build a farm or two and a mine.

    I had assumed the only unforested tile in the capital's radius would be a hidden resource, but I don't have IW yet, so I guess it must be Iron if there is one there. Also my starting Warror got eaten by a bear early on, so I haven't had much chance to explore a lot yet.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
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    Location:
    Planet Earth
    A very good starting spot, but here are some of my thoughts on this issue...

    #1 You want people to play and share ideas, etc...

    Well I don't think thats' going to work much. We are starting with a financial leader, as we all know, most people simply resort to the same old cottage spamming since their newbie settler days. There will be no out-of-the-box thinking here, nothing new to share. Just the same old, same old 'if it works, then don't fix it' routine. *yawn

    #2 You consider this Deity level...

    Well, truth be told, this game isn't anything above monarch level technically. We have not 2, not 3, but FOUR food resources in the fat cross alone! Not to mention 3 hills for mining. Not to mention fresh water from a river too! Ohh and being dutch right by a river for the UB bonus, how very convinient! Convenient even more we have the starting tech already to get the boats going out by turn #1 and happen to be right on a coast.

    To say nothing of the least about the great resources and spots just outside the starting location either... You can see what I am getting at here. While I am sure some will win on this, the fact remains it is more of a monarch game, not a deity.

    I fear those players will consider themselves deity calibre, then find out they keep getting raped with no chance on an average map.

    Now don't get me wrong, who DOESN'T like guaranteed wins when trying a new level for the first time. Some good may come of it, some players can at least be forced to get their feet wet, and it may give them encouragement when winning it.

    In any case, if I get some time, I MAY also join in, though I'm not so sure how that could work out so well. If I'm looking at how other people are playing, that affects how I play even if I try not to let it affect me. Obviously any shadowed game is giving the shadower a tremendous advantage in that he sees what is coming, terrain wise and AI. So all in all, what you'd see from me may not be 100% the strategy I'd have used if I went in blind. And those are not very good games to learn from.
     
  6. Monkeyfinger

    Monkeyfinger Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
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    2,002
    1) If you liberally regenerate like I, and lots of other players do, this IS an average start. Sue us, we aren't willing to play with crappy capitals.

    2) Even that's not a guarantee for a romp of a game. We know this is a START that's great for the dutch, but that doesn't say anything about what the rest of the map is like. You can't call a whole map good just based on the few squares next to the settler. The capital is important, but it's not everything.
     
  7. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

    Joined:
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    2,365
    Never mind.
     
  8. Ruler

    Ruler Prince

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    I just edited my post and added an screenshot if anyone is interested.
     
  9. Belisar

    Belisar Defender of Byzanz

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    After playing some SGs and discussing with other people I have found out that it's the opposite way. IF you share ideas, compare with other players... your "box of tricks" will become larger and your Civ know-how will improve.


    While the starting location looks indeed promising (and a reasonable start is needed for deity level anyway) the game will be far from a walk in the park.
    Deity tech-pace and early AI expansion will take care of that ;)
     
  10. ungy

    ungy Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
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    2,908
    Guaranteed win on deity by looking at the start. Very impressive analysis. Maybe you could enlighten us mortals with your wisdom?
     
  11. yena

    yena King

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2007
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    711
    Location:
    Tokyo
    I gave this a try and played to 1460BC. I normally play Monarch/Emperor. The barbarians were a pain, but I managed to fight them off and expand to three cities.

    Spoiler :

    Research: AH-Mining-BW (no copper :( ), Wheel, Pottery, Writing, Aesthetics (trade bait)
    Foreign relations: Met Napoleon, Sitting Bull, Ramses. OB with everyone
    Build order: WB, worker, warrior (until size 2), settler, continue warrior, worker, chariot, settler, library. The second city built chariot, barracks, chariot

    Plan: cottage more, settle another town to the SW.


     
  12. LuckyAC

    LuckyAC Immortal

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
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    569
    No starting location is going to change the difficulty more than maybe 1 level (and this isn't one of those, that would require some gold or gems or something like this: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=242532). If people win on deity, then they can consider themselves of the caliber to have won on deity.
     
  13. Flamer123

    Flamer123 Chieftain

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    Aug 12, 2007
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    67
    first time on deity (used to immortal) so barbs breaking culture borders at 2500 BC was something i didn't expect. they captured my capital by 2400, so i had to start over, so if that disqualifies me, so be it, i did scout with my warrior in the same way the 2nd time not to give me an advantage.
    wow, those barbarians r a pain.

    I don't know how to insert JPGs inside spoiler, so i hope i'm not ruining it for anyone


    Spoiler :

    played till 1440 BC. managed to expand to 3 towns, and secured alphabet this turn, so the next turn i'm on top of the tech chart.

    now i plan to use the iron source i found to build/whip swordsman fast and capture napoleon - closest to me and the easiest target cause he's the only one adopting judaism and that won't give me those -1 modifiers to the rest of the world. as u noticed, i specifically disculded him in my tech trades.

    improvements wise is pretty clear - financial and not philosophical, so CE.

    on the tech tree i'm a bit unsure. on immortal i can consistently get the great libary, and the chance to lose the liberalism path cause of that is very low. that needs some testing if the case remains on deity cause liberalism can't be lost. on the other hand, i would need those catapults if i want to finish the french, but i think they can wait.

    one important note i realized on deity level - don't improve ur land with workers until u get chariots/axeman to counter barbs effectively - u can't protect those improvements against barbs cause ur warriors r locked inside the cities.

    my tech path was mining->bronze working->AH (when i realized no copper)->writing->alphabet. had it not been deity i would probably get pottery before alphabet (CE), but i just could'nt protect those improvements - so on deity, gaining pottery first is a waste.

     

    Attached Files:

  14. Ruler

    Ruler Prince

    Joined:
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    If you go to Advance Edit there is Insert image.

    Btw, I played already up to 250 BC as that one psycho is around but I'm going to wait for the rest before posting.
     
  15. ds61514

    ds61514 Warlord

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    Jan 2, 2006
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    I find this comment hilarious given your insane starting spots in some (most?) of your "Emperor" games :lol:.
     
  16. weimingshi

    weimingshi Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    420
    Here is my game. Very weak in military, Immeadiate goal in the next 200 years is build more units so i don't get attacked upon.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Flamer123

    Flamer123 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    relevant update on my game



    Spoiler :

    the french were pretty weak and I managed to conquer paris and lyons with 8 swordsman and 2 chariots by the year 475 BC. the french only have one more city, which they'll lose in 10 turns after peace agreement ends. The usual scouting using open borders found only 1 source of iron and no copper, so it was destroyed at the first turn of DOW.
    Early conquest is possible in deity prior to catapults, just calculate that the ai produces one archer per turn when he sees u coming.

    razing money helps fuel literature teching. the ai somehow chose to tech aesthetics (i think it was Ramesses) so he reached it before i did. it's a rare occurent and i don't know if that's because of deity. i'm still committed to the literature/great libary path, but i'm still unsure whether it's a good idea on deity rather than to go for HR.

    all in all, i feel the same as i would in any immortal game except the barbarians early on, and the ai teching a bit faster. I think it's due to 2 reasons - 1)In this specific fractal map, the continent we're on isn't large enough to allow the computer to use its early deity advantages to expand fast. 2) the capital's location made it a lot easier, not because we have 4 food resources (1 iron too), but, specifically that we have at least 1 coastal resource. i don't believe it's possible to protect improvements early on against land barbs.
    on the other hand, the fact that happiness resources are really hard to come by near our capital really hurts the starting position.
     
  18. darrelljs

    darrelljs Immortal

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    That's odd. I had the opposite reaction when I saw that food...what a waste, you really only need a couple.

    Darrell
     
  19. Ruler

    Ruler Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
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    Map is awesome no one can't blame it. That's for sure but still compare this to Monarch sounds little bit odd. I haven't never seen so much grass/rivers in my Immortal games but there's still at least two big threat from AI side to take care as a matter of fact I could bet my money on yellow.

    Too much food is never too much in my opinion. That Capital is going to rock when it grows 20+ and all that way up there. You can run so many GP with that food and not to mention if you switch to Caste System. btw, there's one excellent example in Sisitul's online game. I think it was his first BtS game ever.
     
  20. Flamer123

    Flamer123 Chieftain

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    map is above average but it hardly makes it not deity. map has lots of problems as well - deserts and jungles surrond the capital, no close happy resources, possible early landlock by napoleon,
    Spoiler :
    NO COPPER !!!!! need i say more?
    , so what if it has 4 food resources - they affect nothing till 1AD since there's no happines to support them...

    let obsolete play it instead of judging it without even playing a single turn...
    I do agree with him that a non-financial leader would have made for more diverse tactics, but at least for my limited skills it's challenging enough as it is.
     

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