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The Flying Dutchmen - Deity Adventures

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by uberfish, Sep 9, 2007.

  1. cheffster

    cheffster Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
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    199
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    well, Ive played a fair bit further now. The game is actually going allright, if I'm carefull enough I might be able to pull off my first deity win, I think the chances right now are 50/50, but right when I think I have any advantage, the ai astounds me at this level...

    Spoiler :


    Here's where I built my cities:

    I obviously wanted most of them to be costal to reap the benefits of dikes later on.

    Heres my capital (1020AD)


    I managed to build the UofS, Spiral minerat, and right afer my last post, hinduism spread in one of my cities, so I converted religion to hinduism since the AP was built by the hindus. I had to really stray from the liberalism tech path to get divine right, but I founded islam, and wiht 8 cities with 2 religious buildings each, that +32gold per turn im getting from the SMineret. You can also notice that in my capital for some reason I kept giving brith to Great Engineers so i kept settling them.

    I finally realized I would have to invade the french in order get more cities and eventually win, so I started my first Golden age, switched to theocracy and did a big military push after having built monastaries/temples in all my cities. Hopefully I could take some french cities before sitting bull grabs them all.





    I decided to get economics from liberalism so I could get that free great merchant, I decided to settle him on my moai statues city (Roderdam).


    And here I am at war with the French ( I also bribed Gilgamesh to goto war with Gengis Khan, and that worked out great they are lossing tons of resources over it)


    I've maybe waited too long to do a military push, but I wanted to build a basic infastructure up first and get the wonders/buildings I need, then focus all my efforts on military. I've played on a little further, but for now Ill leave it at this. and I attached my savegame at 1070(right before liberalism).



     

    Attached Files:

  2. Giaur

    Giaur War Dancer

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    Inbetween Shangri-La and Valhalla
    Things are going crappy. No comments.
     

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  3. Giaur

    Giaur War Dancer

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Inbetween Shangri-La and Valhalla
    Spoiler :
    I suppose I will lose this game. I can only chose how I die ;). I can be destroyed by Shaka (and his vassal Ramses) who is close to friendly with me, but only close. He has 'We have on our hands right now info'. Ramses is friendly with me but his spy was stumbled in MY city (wierd). I can also wait till Sitting Bull launch his Spaceship. In that case I will have to upgrade my rifles and defend against Shaka. Bull has no knowledge of Assembly Line, but Shaka is massing forces near my borders and upgradeds longbows, axes directly to inf. The funny thing is that these longbows came from completely wierd direction (from Genghis Khan Empire). The real cool civs that could be my trade partners are vassals of Shaka and Bull (both Ramses and Gilgamesh) and I have no tech for them. Sitting Bull is moron with WFYBTA info, unless I have not traded for about 60 turns. Ghengis Khan is annoyed now, but he was my biggest dissapointment (he was cautious earlier). Completly another personality than in my previous games. Khan is also badly behind in teching, so I really do not understand his behaviour. The only hope is to wait till Shaka decides to go to war with Bull, but those are only dreams. I'd rather won't mention about my GNP - it's improved but worse than in my immortal games. But what should I expect? This is deity and 1600AD on deity equals 1800AD on immortal.
     

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  4. Unconquered Sun

    Unconquered Sun Emperor

    Joined:
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    Spoiler :

    Spaceship? More like Ramessess cultural. Smart move on his side to vassalize for extra protection.
     
  5. uberfish

    uberfish Immortal

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
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    1,365
    I'm actually going to skip up to 600 AD myself but post both saves because it's just general peacemongering.

    The 4th city is Rotterdam to prevent the French stealing the spices, and then I build a city up north at the corn/cow site. Rotterdam will just be a cottage city for now and I'll build the Moai statues there later in the game.

    I fell into old Warlords habits and researched alphabet, which was a poor decision as I couldn't trade it for mathematics once I arrived there. I should just have researched Mathematics directly as my target was Calendar to get +2 more happiness and extra food for my southern cities.



    In 675 BC I've just finished a library, at size 7 I can work all Amsterdam's resources and hire 2 scientists. The city continues to train workers and settlers.

    I have pickets all over the north now but no real military units. Also I have contact with 5 of the 6 AIs. Napoleon has adopted Judaism, while everyone else is Hindu. I decide to stay in No State Religion because I don't want to antagonize either Napoleon, or Shaka who has a bad habit of marching halfway across the world to attack you given the slightest excuse.

    Since I'm not going to use a state religion and Pacifism, there's low value in lightbulbing Philosophy. I build an academy in the capital.

    In 50BC I have completed my initial settling target of 7 cities, tech is aimed at Civil Service and Bureaucracy and I will start replacing forests with cottages when I get there.

    In 25 BC Napoleon indeed declares war on Sitting Bull, justifying the decision to not adopt a religion. Sitting Bull is just so good defensively that this will probably be a stalemate. Lucky break for me. Research is just breaking 60.



    I get CoL in 175 AD and start tech trading, acquiring Aesthetics and Monarchy. Civil Service hits in 400AD and that pulls in Metal Casting, Currency and Drama.

    The French and Native Americans sign peace in 540 AD after an ineffective invasion. I get a great scientist in 600 AD just after finishing paper. Here's my city output:



    Here we can see the effect of taking the south early and using the capital as a settler/worker pump. The capital has only just started to work cottages and we are behind where a typical Bureaucracy capital would be in research terms. On the other hand, the rest of my cities have been founded quite early and have had time to grow and make significant contributions to the economy taking me up to 178 research. They will be working on the prerequisite buildings for Globe Theatre in Nijmegen, and Oxford in Amsterdam - sadly without the benefit of organized religion. I'm behind in military tech and still want to stay neutral in the religious front to antagonize Napoleon as little as possible.

    Taoism has been founded already. So I'll self-research philosophy and use my GS to part-lightbulb Education to make sure I get liberalism first. The AIs in this game are not research fiends, but deity is still deity and I am planning to trade philosophy off to the other 4 AIs as soon as I research it.

    Given that I want to slave Nijmegen, work real tiles rather than specialists in Amsterdam, and do production in Maastricht I have no other suitable National Epic site. Therefore, I skipped literature.
     

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  6. Giaur

    Giaur War Dancer

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Inbetween Shangri-La and Valhalla
    Spoiler :

    Things became lucky for me. Shaka sent half of his army towards Khan. And general Defensive pact was signed. So now Shaka, Gilgamesh (who became Shaka's vassal and that was the reason I lost one cav) and Ramses against me, G.Khan and Sitting Bull (moron still do not want to trade). I am not idealist. I play with my new mod - expansive is replaced by 1 additional hammer from water tiles. Shaka has factories, I do not. But good things are: I constructed Globe in Paris which has 4 great generals so I can draft lvl3 units. I started producing Ships-off-the-line and Airships. My aim is difficult to say. For sure claiming holy hindu city (there are stationing about 30 inf), but I have similar forces standing nearby and also 15 cats. Airships will solve the problem. Shaka can have only 4 of them (only one city). I can have much more. And maybe mentioned Ramses-Cultural-Threat Problem. Also constructed fort near Paris. Now Shaka has to enter clear terrain to siege this city. I have no knowledge of Ramses power. But I am of a good thought. I made civic switch - Rep, Nationhood, Emancipation, SP and Teocracy. First I regreted this change, but things went right at the end. And the question. Paris has constructed The Statue of Zeus. Do you think that wonder can damage AI's economy?
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Unconquered Sun

    Unconquered Sun Emperor

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    Spoiler :

    No.

    Shaka is invulnerable to WW.

    Ramsy is going for cultural anyway.
     
  8. cheffster

    cheffster Deity

    Joined:
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    199
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Well my game seems to be fairly smoothly.

    Spoiler :


    During my war with the french I only managed to capture 2 cities, before I decided to sign a peace treaty since the War-Weariness was really killing my economy and forcing me to put a 50% culture silder. (That bastard built the statue of zeus)

    Right after the war, I teched Nationalism->constitution->democracy and built the statue of Liberty in Amsterdam. Amsterdam has really become a beast of a city, all that food and settled engineers have enabled me to make it a super-production city, and I haven't even built ironworks there yet.



    I was able to make some trades for chemisty and promtly researched steam power to spam dikes, and then steel to build IronWorks. My plan is to delay researching astronomy/scientific method till those are the last techs I can research (since they obselete some of my wonders, and my 10 monastaries are bringing in +2Hammers/Breakers/Gold in all my cities). And I want to build the pentagon ASAP and have infantry/cannons to finish off the french with. (maybe Im delaying too long here, but I'm trying to balance infastructure/war)







    I didn't actually end up attacking the French again till I was completely ready (maybe I delayed too long, but at the same time if im declaring war I plan to capture fast/efficently). I decided to fill a bunch of EastIndiamans with troops.




    And sent them to the locations indicated by the red lines:



    In the meantime I was able to finish the pentagon. (during my golden age, I ran theocracy, Beaucracy, but right before it ended I switched to Free-speech/organized religion). I hate wasting turns on anarchy when u can swich during GA's, and since I have the pentagon built I can build units with 2 promomtions without having to have a government that gives more unit experience. I'm a big fan of org. Religion, and tho some people might prefer nationalism/theocracy, I'm really a 'builder' at heart more then a war-monger, and so long as I have the pentagon, I don't feel I need theocracy anymore. I'll be loosing gold/hammers initially with free speech, but eventually once my villages mature to towns it will be by far a superior civic, and that +100% culture will help push my borders near sitting bull. I also used my pre-war golden age to switch to emancipation from Caste system since alot of the AI's had emancipation I was pretty much forced, and hey, I might as well start growing a bunch of towns since I'm also getting Free speech.








    Needless to say, I made quick work of the French, and now my score is near the top. I am however worried about sitting bull and ramesses II, Ramesses has finished mining inc, and sitting bull seems to be to doing quite well too.



    I really hate sitting bull.

    Even tho we have the same religion, he is pleased me with me (+9), he can't be bribed to declare war on ramesses (which would be perfect right now), and he even refues to trade techs with me!





    Ill end it here for now. I attached my save-game at 1690AD. I could try and mass tanks for war vs sitting bulls/ramesses, or I could just go from here and try to win a space-race victory, I'm really not sure. But I do plan on going Industrialism->Plasitcs to get the Three Gorges Dam asap. I've never won a diety game before (Tho immortal has seemed easy lately), and would really appreciate any advice from better players with experience on diety like unconquered sun :p





     

    Attached Files:

  9. Unconquered Sun

    Unconquered Sun Emperor

    Joined:
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    Spoiler :

    You're probably most qualified to say whether the game is space or domination pursuit. You already know your opponents tech pace better than I can assess it based on a snapshot.

    The good news is no AI is close to cultural in your game.
     
  10. darrelljs

    darrelljs Immortal

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
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    1,246
    Location:
    South Florida
    uberfish, you have played into a position I have found myself in many times. You have good cities and are teching along enough to keep up in the trading game, but you don't have a land lead. In this situation I fall into the same old pattern of Liberalism -> Nationalism and try to draft my way to more cities. Is that pretty much the only viable path in this situation? Do you think you have enough land to win peacefully at this level?

    Darrell
     
  11. Ruler

    Ruler Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    443
    I nearly always upgrade my units and I take always advantage of free unit support as I get more cities and they grow and it works for me and why not because there's no extra expenses and usually I don't mind to spent money to get more units. I find it very odd that the good players like Staaty or Uberfish take never benefit of free support. It's 600 AD and most of Ubersfish cities are guarded by warriors. That's just odd. He has a free support to 19 units.
     
  12. Giaur

    Giaur War Dancer

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    Location:
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    Spoiler :

    Ramses is no longer a threat.


    edit:
    Spoiler :

    An idiot Shaka sent half of his troops against G.Khan (as I said before). Then he sent another half against Sitting Bull. There was nothing else for me to do than attack both Shaka and Ramses. I took hindu holy city from Shaka, and started sieging Egyptian cities, but Shaka has completed Pentagon and when I saw CR3 artillery signed peace treaty with Shaka. Ramses lost 3 cities, but I am not afraid now that he'll be vassalized. Shaka's power was reduced very much. Sitting Bull also does not have extreme power. After gaining 2 'You voted for us' points, Sitting Bull became friendly which opened for me trading opportunities. I am not very experienced in Spaceship victory, but I'd rather go for Internet. Bull I suppose is upgrading his rifles now, so his research will be delayed a bit. Still Sitting Bull is one tech ahead towards the internet. I am also hoping that no great scientist will born, because I am counting on the third goldenage (fourth with Taj Mahal). The pity, Mausoleum of Mausolloss is in Bull's hands. Maybe some sneaky attack on his coastal cities, but ... This is deity. It would be better for me to focus on one target.
     

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  13. Unconquered Sun

    Unconquered Sun Emperor

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    Nice.


    1828 AD and no launched spaceship components, I wonder why.
     
  14. Giaur

    Giaur War Dancer

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    @Unconquered Sun:

    I only won Domination/Conquest on deity so I cannot tell why. But I will try answer anyway:
    1) no financial civ
    2) none civ has enormous number of cities and the size of these cities is poor

    3) from my part: strong WFYBTA
     
  15. Giaur

    Giaur War Dancer

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    The funniest thing is that I have nothing about SpacaRace, but I found out that most optimal way to launch Spaceship is to eliminate rivals. Not only my shrinking economy matters, but also ... F.E. Sitting Bull has Cristo Redentor. I'd like to add this wonder to my collection ;)
     
  16. uberfish

    uberfish Immortal

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    My baseline is 10 (good to decent) cities to win space on deity, so yeah my plan is to draft up and take Napoleon's land.
     
  17. Giaur

    Giaur War Dancer

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    Spoiler :

    Now I have to chose how they die. First gifted oil to Shaka, basically to improve relations in a short period of time. He vassalized Gilgamesh (peacefully), but Gilgamesh was destroyed by Mongols I guess. Soon after that Ramses was destroyed by Shaka. I have two production cities, but one of them was producing Ironworks and this wonder I do not know the spelling. So only one of my cities produced tanks. Shaka's strength is double of mine but it aint a problem. Even now domination is possible, but I will resign from that (to much time in RL). Now Khan and Sitting Bull against Shaka. I stoped gifting Shaka oil when I saw his tanks, but maybe it is not bad idea to gift oil to him again. It would make this war more fair. Still no knowledge of Bull's demographics. It would be great to soften Bull and grab some of his wonders for free. Another dylama: victory - space or diplo. Only Bull would vote for me now and this means I would have to adopt Police State. Finally third great person was born and thankfully differed from the others so I can trigger Golden Age now, but perhaps civic switch now: Police State, US or stay with Rep. I do not know who whould be selected as another pretender to UN.

    btw. What a funny world is that. None of Shaka, Bull and Khan had oil.
     

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  18. cheffster

    cheffster Deity

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    Location:
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    Launched 1905, and landed 1918 for a space race win!

    This is my first win ever on diety, so I'm feeling pretty good about it :king:

    Spoiler :

    I don't have time to make a huge write-up detailing every event, but here's some highlights.

    I bribed gilamesh to goto war with Sitting bull for a few techs, and shortly after Ramesses declared war on Sitting Bull (putting me in a perfect spot for a SS win).


    Ramesses ended up bringing a nuclear winter on the Native Americans (good thing I didn't declare war on him)


    So I had researched all the nessessary techs and managed a launch by 1905:


    Landed 1918:


    Here's my score:


    and Hall of fame:


    Well, 39,542 seems somewhat underwhleming after how difficult this game was, being on diety, nowhere close to my 89,338 domination win on Immortal. This is my first-time winning without building The Eiffel tower-Broadway-Rock'Roll trio, and I also never built Cristo Redendo, but I really didn't need it, in fact I really didn't need alot of the wonders I built, maybe Ill try a less wonder oriented strategy now on.

    Looking back, the starting location was amazingly good for the capital city, and dikes really are a ridiculously powerfull UB once you can build them. Had we not had such a good starting location with stone and good costal-city locations, managing a victory might not have been possible for me. However, obselete commented that this start was so 'powerfull' that game would more be like playing monarch, and rofl at that idea, this was by far the 'hardest' game I've ever won, and I've been playing on immortal for a while.
    Immortal->diety is like going from Prince->Immortal in my honest opinion.
    (at least in BTS)


    I attached a few saves if anyone is curious.



    edit:
    btw, what does WFYBTA stand for?
     

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  19. Giaur

    Giaur War Dancer

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    'WFYABTA' means 'We fear you are becoming too advanced'.

    And congrats your first deity win :goodjob:
     
  20. axident

    axident Emperor

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    Yeah no kidding. The map gen tends to spruce up your capital a lot no matter what. I have a zero-reload, zero-regenerate, zero-WB/cheating thread going on (also Dutch, but on Immortal) and rolled a nice starting capital. So what? Am I to reroll until I get the crappiest capital possible? :rolleyes:

    Capitals aren't even the only factor, anyway! The best roll I ever got I think was one where I was Napolean, Emperor, on the northern part of a snaky continent (but I didn't know that at the time; I was playing Big & Small). Capital was okay but nothing to write home about. I settled a nearby city for stone and to build GrLighthouse, then REX'd south. I could go left or right. I chose right and kept REXing south and east until I couldn't claim any more good land. I sent a chariot west during this time and discovered that it was uninhabited! A few fogbuster chariots later and I had locked down that entire stretch of 5 cities' worth of land (Normal size map so that's a lot) while continuing the last of my REXing.

    Conversely I've had some games where I had terrific capitals and yet had very little land and a bunch of Protective neighbors.

    Anyway, I'd play this game but I am already pressed for time as it is and spend most of my forum time these days working on my Immortal Dutch Domination story. Congrats on the win Chef!
     

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