The great DoC 1.8 UHV challenge
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
Yeah, I see your save is much better played from mine.
I may just try some of your setups later and see how I do.
EDIT: Yeah, I think I can do without Hanoi.
I'll try a new game with Luoyang, Qufu, Hangzhou, Aomen,
Dagou (I agree with Fresol, why is the city 1S of Taipei called Big Dog?),
Seoul, Shenyang & Kyouto.
I may just try some of your setups later and see how I do.
EDIT: Yeah, I think I can do without Hanoi.
I'll try a new game with Luoyang, Qufu, Hangzhou, Aomen,
Dagou (I agree with Fresol, why is the city 1S of Taipei called Big Dog?),
Seoul, Shenyang & Kyouto.
soul-breathing
Emperor
Luoyang(2E),Shanghai(on rice),Shenyang,Haojing,Mandelay(1S to gold),Chengdu(2W2S),Hancheng(captured),Durban(on Gold),than two cities on japan
There seems a bug in your save,why Mongol is so slow in technology?It even doesn't have mining....
I was going for the Portuguese UHV until...
Wondering how Maya looks like?
Previously, when I first spawn, the holder of largest map was India.
It was until Mughal was up and strike them out of the game..
Then so, the largest map holder changes to China..
Due to a strange bug or intentional code, I meet with random civilization every few turns and gone away at another turns.. even if I haven't really met them! So, in one chance, I get to meet Mongolia and his vassal, Khanate of Dumdadu (<< Still had no idea where the word Dumdadu came from). I bought their map, revealing large part of China, Siberian, India, Khmer, etc.
For crying out loud!!!
China still hold the largest map in the world.
Impatiently, I spawn some barbarian Keshiks near their only city in Tianjin..
China collapse and you can see whats happening next : Maya.
I am willing to bet that there's something wrong with your Portuguese 1st UHV code...
Also I found a kind of bug with Mali and the Goths (Seriously, funny!
)
There's a random event that the Goths are seeking to plunder civilization etc and spawn 5 strong Axeman nearest to the Malian capital of Timbuktu rather than my city of Arguim in Morocco. This Goths then raze this Malian only Islam city, the rest are decapitated by my Longbowmens
Still, Islam is still the state religion of Mali.
The problems I had with ever-staying Islam, Mansa Musa is annoyed up to -9 point because I am Catholic. Is this intended? I though Malian was pretty tolerable to different State religion civs, unlike the Arabs...
Therefore, they won't sign me an open border contact and their Sefadu in Senegal blocks my access from exploring the southern Africa back to Lisboa ._.
I also found a bug with the Mongols...
I got message that Mongols collapsed to Civil War but I still sees them in WB.
Another rather funny things is
Egyptian respawn and Arabian Collapse.
{
5 turns
}
Byzantine respawn and Egyptian collapse.
{
5 turns
}
Mongol control Constantinople, Byzantine collapse.
And so Independent cities mushrooming from the Balkans to the Southern Indian
P.S
I never seen AI built cities THIS awesome.
Too bad seeing the cities destroyed
Spoiler :
Wondering how Maya looks like?
Spoiler :
Previously, when I first spawn, the holder of largest map was India.
It was until Mughal was up and strike them out of the game..
Then so, the largest map holder changes to China..
Due to a strange bug or intentional code, I meet with random civilization every few turns and gone away at another turns.. even if I haven't really met them! So, in one chance, I get to meet Mongolia and his vassal, Khanate of Dumdadu (<< Still had no idea where the word Dumdadu came from). I bought their map, revealing large part of China, Siberian, India, Khmer, etc.
For crying out loud!!!
China still hold the largest map in the world.
Impatiently, I spawn some barbarian Keshiks near their only city in Tianjin..
China collapse and you can see whats happening next : Maya.
I am willing to bet that there's something wrong with your Portuguese 1st UHV code...
Also I found a kind of bug with Mali and the Goths (Seriously, funny!
)There's a random event that the Goths are seeking to plunder civilization etc and spawn 5 strong Axeman nearest to the Malian capital of Timbuktu rather than my city of Arguim in Morocco. This Goths then raze this Malian only Islam city, the rest are decapitated by my Longbowmens
Still, Islam is still the state religion of Mali.
The problems I had with ever-staying Islam, Mansa Musa is annoyed up to -9 point because I am Catholic. Is this intended? I though Malian was pretty tolerable to different State religion civs, unlike the Arabs...
Therefore, they won't sign me an open border contact and their Sefadu in Senegal blocks my access from exploring the southern Africa back to Lisboa ._.
I also found a bug with the Mongols...
I got message that Mongols collapsed to Civil War but I still sees them in WB.
Another rather funny things is
Egyptian respawn and Arabian Collapse.
{
5 turns
}
Byzantine respawn and Egyptian collapse.
{
5 turns
}
Mongol control Constantinople, Byzantine collapse.
And so Independent cities mushrooming from the Balkans to the Southern Indian
P.S
I never seen AI built cities THIS awesome.
Too bad seeing the cities destroyed
Akbarthegreat
Angel of Junil
Spoiler :
What I used to always do as the Aztecs/Incans-buy a map. Each and every tile of the new world is revealed.
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
Leoreth, I redid a game as China and the UHV is unwinnable (aka bugged).
I even waited to pass 1800 and the Victory Screen never came up for me.
Also, Germany is way too powerful, I'll bring up some screenshots later.
I even waited to pass 1800 and the Victory Screen never came up for me.
Also, Germany is way too powerful, I'll bring up some screenshots later.
Fresol
Angry Halfling in Green
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2011
- Messages
- 2,284
Mongolian UHV
(Monarch, Normal, 3000BC, finished at turn 275, 1470AD)
I tried Mongolia a few days ago when 1.8 hadn't been released and got close to UHV but failed in the end. So I this time I made some adjustments: for 12% of land, do not try to conquer any (except China of course), just build settlers and get Drama and spend all money on culture.
I tried a few starts and in some cases I wasn't able to bring down China, but there's this one time China was incredibly weak. (Check the thumbnail, that was 1200AD! I don't know what happened earlier in the autoplay.) So I just conquered it, razed cities here and there and rebuilt a few. I even settled my initial settlers into China (their cities were worthless, there was nothing in them). I'd say the first two historical goals are not too hard if one's willing to try a few times.
And for the third one, I summarize the main points as:
1)Tech only Aesthetics and Drama, trade for other techs that you need (send your scout to meet the Mughals first);
2)Spam workers to improve tiles in China and later to connect the faraway cites (but maybe not necessary). Chops forests for theaters if needed;
3)Spam settlers and settle cities with a little planning to cover maximum land. Cut research and invest on culture once you have Drama. For cities out of China, build theaters; for cities in China, just workers and settlers, of course you need to let the city grow to say around size 5. Build food/production-rich cities!
In my game, near the end I was panicking and ignored previous planning and settled every possible tile. So the final score reflects how newbie a Mongolia it was.
Oh and I got this side quest of building 7 forges. But of course each newly built city will have one in them so...
The Mongolia game is a very short one, 30-40 turns. Building units is always prioritized.
(Monarch, Normal, 3000BC, finished at turn 275, 1470AD)
I tried Mongolia a few days ago when 1.8 hadn't been released and got close to UHV but failed in the end. So I this time I made some adjustments: for 12% of land, do not try to conquer any (except China of course), just build settlers and get Drama and spend all money on culture.
I tried a few starts and in some cases I wasn't able to bring down China, but there's this one time China was incredibly weak. (Check the thumbnail, that was 1200AD! I don't know what happened earlier in the autoplay.) So I just conquered it, razed cities here and there and rebuilt a few. I even settled my initial settlers into China (their cities were worthless, there was nothing in them). I'd say the first two historical goals are not too hard if one's willing to try a few times.
And for the third one, I summarize the main points as:
1)Tech only Aesthetics and Drama, trade for other techs that you need (send your scout to meet the Mughals first);
2)Spam workers to improve tiles in China and later to connect the faraway cites (but maybe not necessary). Chops forests for theaters if needed;
3)Spam settlers and settle cities with a little planning to cover maximum land. Cut research and invest on culture once you have Drama. For cities out of China, build theaters; for cities in China, just workers and settlers, of course you need to let the city grow to say around size 5. Build food/production-rich cities!
In my game, near the end I was panicking and ignored previous planning and settled every possible tile. So the final score reflects how newbie a Mongolia it was.
Oh and I got this side quest of building 7 forges. But of course each newly built city will have one in them so...
The Mongolia game is a very short one, 30-40 turns. Building units is always prioritized.
Fresol
Angry Halfling in Green
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2011
- Messages
- 2,284
I think for Portugal the second goal is the hard one. I really can't sign that many open borders in time, or ever. For the map, just buy maps for both the old and the new worlds, and explore the sea yourself. Selling map later will yield you some good amount of gold.
Well, I haven't met them yet.
What I want to tell ya all is China, who was the civilization with largest map whom I bought one from, just collapsed but the UHV didn't check on me, instead it's seems to randomly pick Maya..
I have known almost all Europe + half of Africa then I bought a map from China (not trading) which is all Southeast Asia + China + Japan + Korea + India + Siberia and I am losing to one tiny Mesoamerican civs in most map revealed counting?
That's the point
I'd rather like to see how many tiles are revealed to Maya (there's a reveal tile mode, select Pacal, then show a screen). I need to know if they're actually having a large map because then I can rule out that the victory code has errors (I don't think it has). Then I could focus to track down how they got such a large map.
If that's true, the Maya might have benefitted from a similar error and would be able to share their maps.
By the way, "Dumdadu" seems to be equivalent to "Middle Kingdom" in Mongolian, "Dumdadu ulus" means "Central State" according to this site.
Mansa isn't very friendly towards heathens, but it's quite easy to overcome this with some early gifts. Then trading should easily push him to pleased at least.
Khmer/Thailand and the Khmer game itself might get some tweaks even before I start working on 1.9. This could include some protection mechanism for already built wonders.I never seen AI built cities THIS awesome.
Too bad seeing the cities destroyed
The Chinese victory bug has already been fixed (latest SVN, or if you're using the downloaded version, there's a patch in the first post of the main thread).Tomorrow's Dawn said:
Germany will be rebalanced in 1.9 anyway. I'm aware of their problems.
Qiu
Warlord
Iranian
Normal Difficulty
Normal Speed
600AD Scenario
Starts in 1500AD
"Rebirthed" Persian empire, a new element in DoC. Not long but interesting. However may needs further polish.
Have played once in SVN. This is the second time
Started as Dutch, next turn switch to Iranian.
Situation
Turks controls Mesopotamia but Constantinople not. Giant Islamic Mongol Empire in the North but being unstable. Mughals just has conquered the Ganges.
Problem:Isfahan starts without Islam. May adds some missionaries?
Goals
UHV 1: open borders with at least 6 European civs in 1650
UHV 2: Control Mesopotamia, Transoxania and Northwestern India in 1750
UHV 3: Have a city with at least 20000 culture in 1800
What in our hands
UU: Stronger swordsman, city raider (won't be stronger than Cannons
)
UB: Market with +1 trade route (good)
UP: Religious buildings produce +2 culture and +2 research (may very powerful in the hands of Achaemenid or Sassanid Persian Empire
)
Strategy
UHV 1: the easiest way--send one or two caravel(s) in the very beginning. I tried to do something different--get a great spy and make him stealth cross the eurasia but cannot be faster than caravels. If the second way is appreciated, shall we remove the optics tech from the Iranian start?
Run a secular revolution can make the European leaders happy and willing to open border with you, but you would face the fate of Pahlavi.
So try to find some poor guys, I say Mansa Musa, declare war on them and embrace your European allies. Also your should avoid trading with your Muslim neighours in the beginning, despite that they are much more friendly in the game than in real life, because they may be the worst enemy of an unknown European civ.
UHV 2: In my game Mughals are weak and easily crushed. Hindustan could be your power house, especial for the 3rd UHV. Then Merv and Samarquand. I defeated Turks too late, just before they vassalized by Russians. Later Mongols became the puppy of POWERFUL HRE. I had to carefully guard my historical territories and purchase the 3rd UHV.
UHV 3: the way to gain a cultural victory may diverse. I used the great artists. As said, Indian cities are crazy in producing GPs. Maybe it was wrong for me to abandon research to accumulate culture points. Great artists overkills in fact.
All cities will be busy in training troops, with Isfahan buiding culture related ones (once again, in fact Indian great artists overkills). So I chosed Theocracy and Absolutism. DoC newly introduced civ "State Church" is quite helpfull here. It helps producing more great artists and in fact newly conqured Indian cities luck GP buidings.
bribed Turks to make they declaring war on Russians. But they got defeated too easily.
Immediately built Wat Preah Pisnulok in Delhi. More mullahs! (might be a mistake here)
Declared war on Malinese and Mogols. Bribed others with Drama or Music tech.(oops, persian music!) Opened 9 borders without religious conversion. Once again, do avoid trading with potent worst enemy of any European civs in the beginning. Your (Iranian) friends are not your neighours or your "brothers in faith".
Then I recalled the 3rd UHV. Please! No more mullahs!
second UHV garanteed.
OK. Islamic Republic of Iran. More artists, please.
should do this earlier...
Just a bit late...
the fourth. This guy comes from Dehli, not Shiraz, plz.
Yes!
the fifth artist were on the road to Baghdad.
the great city of Isfahan
...what a shame
Normal Difficulty
Normal Speed
600AD Scenario
Starts in 1500AD
"Rebirthed" Persian empire, a new element in DoC. Not long but interesting. However may needs further polish.
Have played once in SVN. This is the second time
Started as Dutch, next turn switch to Iranian.
Situation
Turks controls Mesopotamia but Constantinople not. Giant Islamic Mongol Empire in the North but being unstable. Mughals just has conquered the Ganges.
Problem:Isfahan starts without Islam. May adds some missionaries?
Goals
UHV 1: open borders with at least 6 European civs in 1650
UHV 2: Control Mesopotamia, Transoxania and Northwestern India in 1750
UHV 3: Have a city with at least 20000 culture in 1800
What in our hands
UU: Stronger swordsman, city raider (won't be stronger than Cannons
)UB: Market with +1 trade route (good)
UP: Religious buildings produce +2 culture and +2 research (may very powerful in the hands of Achaemenid or Sassanid Persian Empire
)Strategy
UHV 1: the easiest way--send one or two caravel(s) in the very beginning. I tried to do something different--get a great spy and make him stealth cross the eurasia
but cannot be faster than caravels. If the second way is appreciated, shall we remove the optics tech from the Iranian start?Run a secular revolution can make the European leaders happy and willing to open border with you, but you would face the fate of Pahlavi.
So try to find some poor guys, I say Mansa Musa, declare war on them and embrace your European allies. Also your should avoid trading with your Muslim neighours in the beginning, despite that they are much more friendly in the game than in real life, because they may be the worst enemy of an unknown European civ.UHV 2: In my game Mughals are weak and easily crushed. Hindustan could be your power house, especial for the 3rd UHV. Then Merv and Samarquand. I defeated Turks too late, just before they vassalized by Russians. Later Mongols became the puppy of POWERFUL HRE. I had to carefully guard my historical territories and purchase the 3rd UHV.
UHV 3: the way to gain a cultural victory may diverse. I used the great artists. As said, Indian cities are crazy in producing GPs. Maybe it was wrong for me to abandon research to accumulate culture points. Great artists overkills in fact.
Spoiler :
All cities will be busy in training troops, with Isfahan buiding culture related ones (once again, in fact Indian great artists overkills). So I chosed Theocracy and Absolutism. DoC newly introduced civ "State Church" is quite helpfull here. It helps producing more great artists and in fact newly conqured Indian cities luck GP buidings.
Spoiler :
bribed Turks to make they declaring war on Russians. But they got defeated too easily.
Spoiler :
Immediately built Wat Preah Pisnulok in Delhi. More mullahs! (might be a mistake here)
Spoiler :
Declared war on Malinese and Mogols. Bribed others with Drama or Music tech.(oops, persian music!) Opened 9 borders without religious conversion. Once again, do avoid trading with potent worst enemy of any European civs in the beginning. Your (Iranian) friends are not your neighours or your "brothers in faith".
Spoiler :
Then I recalled the 3rd UHV. Please! No more mullahs!
Spoiler :
second UHV garanteed.
Spoiler :
OK. Islamic Republic of Iran. More artists, please.
Spoiler :
should do this earlier...
Spoiler :
Just a bit late...
Spoiler :
the fourth. This guy comes from Dehli, not Shiraz, plz.
Spoiler :
Yes!
Spoiler :
the fifth artist were on the road to Baghdad.
Spoiler :
the great city of Isfahan
Spoiler :
...what a shame
Great game. Never played Iran myself. Any additional comment on things that are too hard / too easy? You game proves that State Church really is overpowered at the moment, and the "additional great people with state religion" effect will see a nerf in the future.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
I have no clue if you have thought about this or not, Leo (you probably did) but the Iranian UHV needs adjustments per game speed.
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
Okay.
So here is my write-up of China:
Settings:
Difficulty: Monarch
Speed: Normal
The Hanging Gardens was built by someone...in like the first ten turns or something.
Built The Great Lighthouse, The Colossus, The Great Library, Pantheon
and some other wonders I can't exactly remember.
Temple of Artemis would have been nice, but in my opinion, the first four are absolutely critical.
Two unfortunate things happened.
I lost the Great Cothon in Dagou to Greece.
And I lost the Colosseum in Luoyang to Rome.
The Colosseum ended up not being too big a deal but the loss of the Great Cothon was bad;
I could've maintained a better Economy/finished up more things faster had I snagged it.
Espionage action in ancient times!
I got to Construction a little late,
so I had several skirmishes with Xiongnu barbarians
on several occasions before I got the Great Wall up.
Thanks to Fresol's China Proper city setup,
it turned out to be a lot easier to manage and
I ended up teching better and meeting UHV conditions earlier.
I don't like the 2 cities on Japan setup though;
Japanese rebirth is a more constant threat with two cities on the archipelago.
I differed in my setup with Shenyang, Seoul & Jingdu.
Hanoi is usually a go to for me whenever I need a city but in retrospect,
it shares too many tiles if I'm going to build Aomen.
Phoenicia was unusually long-lived in this game, which wasn't a bad thing.
Some alt-history Carthaginian Republic is always fun to have.
They died in 1080 AD though.
I think the general plan for achieving the 4th UHV is:
Music GA + GS = 1st Golden Age
Triumphal Arch = 2nd Golden Age
3 Great Persons = 3rd Golden Age
Olympic Park = 4th Golden Age
Second Spy action.
Germany is climbing to the top of the charts.
Keeping up Stability at this point is like trying to
go up a waterfall. Except I'm not a salmon fish.
Germany continues to snowball as the Ottomans fall into their thrall.
After receiving Astronomy from the French,
I was able to vassalize a respawned Russia.
Which also drew me into a war with super-Vikings,
who had complete control of the British Isles
with the exception of Plymouth & Dublin.
My surgical strike force is ready to rip out the throat.
Not gameplay related per-se but I just wanted to comment that
the union of the Bear & the Dragon seems to have some additional benefits.
Fortunately for me, the Swedish were highly unstable and close to collapse.
Since Spain had already taken care of Portugal for me,
I decided to swing at England when they respawned out of the Swedish collapse.
Only failing to realize that they had a Defensive Pact with Germany,
who brought the Netherlands and the Ottomans against me.
(And later France who they vassalized)
Waaayyy too strong.
After the Swedish collapse,
Germany began to cannibalize former Swedish cities
to sate its incredible metabolism.
I understand the Chinese UHV bug was fixed via patch
but I was playing pre-patched.
So I'm claiming victory now as well.
I planned on continuing and continually destabilizing Germany,
formenting collapse via spy games and hoping it would
choke on all the land it stole from Russia & Sweden.
But I didn't think it was very likely I was going to succeed in that endeavor;
Germany already teching Fission and my stability being volatile enough as it is.
That concludes my Monarch difficulty, Normal speed DoC China v1.8 AAR.
So here is my write-up of China:
Settings:
Difficulty: Monarch
Speed: Normal
The Hanging Gardens was built by someone...in like the first ten turns or something.
Built The Great Lighthouse, The Colossus, The Great Library, Pantheon
and some other wonders I can't exactly remember.
Temple of Artemis would have been nice, but in my opinion, the first four are absolutely critical.
Two unfortunate things happened.
I lost the Great Cothon in Dagou to Greece.
And I lost the Colosseum in Luoyang to Rome.
The Colosseum ended up not being too big a deal but the loss of the Great Cothon was bad;
I could've maintained a better Economy/finished up more things faster had I snagged it.
Espionage action in ancient times!
I got to Construction a little late,
so I had several skirmishes with Xiongnu barbarians
on several occasions before I got the Great Wall up.
Thanks to Fresol's China Proper city setup,
it turned out to be a lot easier to manage and
I ended up teching better and meeting UHV conditions earlier.
I don't like the 2 cities on Japan setup though;
Japanese rebirth is a more constant threat with two cities on the archipelago.
I differed in my setup with Shenyang, Seoul & Jingdu.
Hanoi is usually a go to for me whenever I need a city but in retrospect,
it shares too many tiles if I'm going to build Aomen.
Phoenicia was unusually long-lived in this game, which wasn't a bad thing.
Some alt-history Carthaginian Republic is always fun to have.
They died in 1080 AD though.
I think the general plan for achieving the 4th UHV is:
Music GA + GS = 1st Golden Age
Triumphal Arch = 2nd Golden Age
3 Great Persons = 3rd Golden Age
Olympic Park = 4th Golden Age
Second Spy action.
Germany is climbing to the top of the charts.
Keeping up Stability at this point is like trying to
go up a waterfall. Except I'm not a salmon fish.
Germany continues to snowball as the Ottomans fall into their thrall.
After receiving Astronomy from the French,
I was able to vassalize a respawned Russia.
Which also drew me into a war with super-Vikings,
who had complete control of the British Isles
with the exception of Plymouth & Dublin.
My surgical strike force is ready to rip out the throat.
Not gameplay related per-se but I just wanted to comment that
the union of the Bear & the Dragon seems to have some additional benefits.
Fortunately for me, the Swedish were highly unstable and close to collapse.
Since Spain had already taken care of Portugal for me,
I decided to swing at England when they respawned out of the Swedish collapse.
Only failing to realize that they had a Defensive Pact with Germany,
who brought the Netherlands and the Ottomans against me.
(And later France who they vassalized)
Waaayyy too strong.
After the Swedish collapse,
Germany began to cannibalize former Swedish cities
to sate its incredible metabolism.
I understand the Chinese UHV bug was fixed via patch
but I was playing pre-patched.
So I'm claiming victory now as well.
I planned on continuing and continually destabilizing Germany,
formenting collapse via spy games and hoping it would
choke on all the land it stole from Russia & Sweden.
But I didn't think it was very likely I was going to succeed in that endeavor;
Germany already teching Fission and my stability being volatile enough as it is.
That concludes my Monarch difficulty, Normal speed DoC China v1.8 AAR.
Jellly
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2010
- Messages
- 88
Finished the Dutch playthough in the 1st page
I'll also agree that State Church is rather overpowered. Amsterdam was popping out a Great Person at maximum once every 11 turns and at one point it was at every 7 turns.
Also in regards to Germany being overpowered, in my game they got their asses handed to them.... but only because Italy and Russia attacked at same time
I'll also agree that State Church is rather overpowered. Amsterdam was popping out a Great Person at maximum once every 11 turns and at one point it was at every 7 turns.
Also in regards to Germany being overpowered, in my game they got their asses handed to them.... but only because Italy and Russia attacked at same time
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
Adjusted tech rate?
...Did you nerf it?
It's hard to keep up with Germany as it is.
...Did you nerf it?
It's hard to keep up with Germany as it is.
