The great DoC 1.8 UHV challenge
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
Hmmm...I guess I'll try it again.
If I think it's too much, I'll let it known.
But if you want historical realism,
keep the tech lag in Industrial,
but get rid of it at Modern.
China caught up quite fast IRL and a
dip in Industrial followed by a re-surge in Modern
I feel will portray that accurately.
May I have a link to the patch?
If I think it's too much, I'll let it known.
But if you want historical realism,
keep the tech lag in Industrial,
but get rid of it at Modern.
China caught up quite fast IRL and a
dip in Industrial followed by a re-surge in Modern
I feel will portray that accurately.
May I have a link to the patch?
Qiu
Warlord
Played Iran again.
No Mongols, but poorer start situation (no Tabriz and Merv, bad infrastructure). Only 6 European civ survives, no Russians no Vikings, and adversarial Germany-France. I even switched to secularism, but still couldn't open borders with both. So failed the UHV.
But the land of Hindustan impressed me again. Large number of settled priests, religious wonders, rich food resources. It might be the key for new Persian Empire. And in case of nerfing State Church, the insane GP production partly comes from State Church but also partly comes from the historical legacy of Hindustan (which got great buff), isn't it?
Could this also be counted as an UHV? (just a joke
)
as many nukes as mullahs
nearly all produced from Delhi and Patriputra. Kept in State Church + Republic.
nuke forces guaranteed hegemony over the Middle-East. Owns 7 oil resources. Insane tech rate, might only a little late than the English. And the Oil Industry has just began to spread...
View attachment Abbas I AD-1960 Turn 440.CivBeyondSwordSave
didn't carefully enough in the late game
finally won a diplomatic victory
some personal feedback about Iranian UHV
something too easy:
1. sailing to Europe. As mentioned, making the player possible to contact Europeans by land route might be unique and more intresting.
2. defeating Mughals. Transoxania depends on Mongol's situation.
something too hard：
no one could open orders with 6 European civs when only 5 surviving, right?
No Mongols, but poorer start situation (no Tabriz and Merv, bad infrastructure). Only 6 European civ survives, no Russians no Vikings, and adversarial Germany-France. I even switched to secularism, but still couldn't open borders with both. So failed the UHV.
But the land of Hindustan impressed me again. Large number of settled priests, religious wonders, rich food resources. It might be the key for new Persian Empire. And in case of nerfing State Church, the insane GP production partly comes from State Church but also partly comes from the historical legacy of Hindustan (which got great buff), isn't it?
Spoiler :
Could this also be counted as an UHV? (just a joke
)Spoiler :
as many nukes as mullahs
nearly all produced from Delhi and Patriputra. Kept in State Church + Republic.
Spoiler :
nuke forces guaranteed hegemony over the Middle-East. Owns 7 oil resources. Insane tech rate, might only a little late than the English. And the Oil Industry has just began to spread...
Spoiler :
View attachment Abbas I AD-1960 Turn 440.CivBeyondSwordSave
didn't carefully enough in the late game
finally won a diplomatic victory
Spoiler :
some personal feedback about Iranian UHV
something too easy:
1. sailing to Europe. As mentioned, making the player possible to contact Europeans by land route might be unique and more intresting.
2. defeating Mughals. Transoxania depends on Mongol's situation.
something too hard：
no one could open orders with 6 European civs when only 5 surviving, right?
Fresol
Angry Halfling in Green
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2011
- Messages
- 2,284
Just finished another Chinese game using more or less the same gameplay as before, ended with worse stability. Finished at turn 254, 1330AD. I can kind of feel the nerf on tech rate, but not really, since I won't play into late game anyway. But what I want to say is the tech lead comes from discovering Theology first and having access to all the Catholic shennanigans: +4 production per city, large shrine income, wonders and stuff.
Mongolia is bugged. Last time it wasn't, they were just fine. This time they spawned in peace, but with no tech at all.
And I squatted Varanasi with a single warrior, BOTH Dilli and Varanasi didn't appear.
Some random pics from game:
Hope to learn what others feel about the modified tech rate.
Mongolia is bugged. Last time it wasn't, they were just fine. This time they spawned in peace, but with no tech at all.
And I squatted Varanasi with a single warrior, BOTH Dilli and Varanasi didn't appear.
Some random pics from game:
Spoiler :
Hope to learn what others feel about the modified tech rate.
Fresol
Angry Halfling in Green
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2011
- Messages
- 2,284
To Qiu:
I see you are quite interested in playing Iran. I personally would not know how to play Iran properly. Interesting games.
To civ_king:
Last time I played Maya, I have to wait until 1600AD despite having a great general much earlier. Glad to see it fixed.
I see you are quite interested in playing Iran. I personally would not know how to play Iran properly. Interesting games.
To civ_king:
Last time I played Maya, I have to wait until 1600AD despite having a great general much earlier. Glad to see it fixed.
How? I don't get it
Will try the Portuguese once again, anyway. It's fun!
[And I only have English and History exam tomorrow
some kind a piece of cake by hanging around here all the time
]Btw, have I mentioned that the screen only change when the civ holder collapsed?
So based on my observation, even though suddenly Maya got contact with lots of civ and buy their map, it won't overthrow China there.. (Proofed that it only change to Maya only after I forced China to collapse)
I thought it was intentional to Portuguese, since mostly Spanish, who is the most reluctant to open borders - perhaps need to be defaulted from spawn?- will block Portuguese access to other European civilization
I see..
But without the word 'ulus', it will equivalent to like Khanate of Central
I'd prefer their vassal name is Yuan Dynasty (of China).. what do you think?
I've tried already. He start at -9 point when meeting me and decreased to -6 point after I gave him cheap tech Sailing. Still won't open borders...
Anyway, since the only city with Islam is gone, why would he stay Islam?
Can't he change the religion to non-state one?
Also. Please disable the Gothic/Aryan/whatever spawn event as it does causing troubles
That's nice
Open WB -> second row, second button from the right -> select Pacal -> tiles not discovered yet will be shaded.How? I don't get it
Depends on how Mongolian works, which I can say nothing about. "Dumdadu" could just be a noun that means "Middle Kingdom" when used on its own. The Yuan Dynasty doesn't make much sense because they were the Mongols after they conquered China, not (Han) China vassalized to Mongolia.I see..
But without the word 'ulus', it will equivalent to like Khanate of Central
I'd prefer their vassal name is Yuan Dynasty (of China).. what do you think?
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
I heard Leoreth made some buffs to Persia - as AI Persia is always abysmal, having to fight all the barbs of Asia by itself. So I decided to try out Persia - turns out it is still quite tricky. Silk Route (the major reason for me to play Persia) is decent, but spreads too late.
First of all, the Persian UU sucks like a vacuum. The BTS version was awesome because it had virtually no counter. The DoC version is abysmal because everyone has Axemen which absolutely slaughters your "Immortals (what an ironic name)". Actually, the success of early game Persia depends almost entirely on whether Babylonia has Axemen or not - they will almost certainly have Bronze Working, so you need to deny them their Copper asap. Fortunately for me, Babylon didn't have Axemen. So I rolled over them, as well as Phoenicia and Indie Jerusalem, as usual.
Shush was razed by barbs so I founded my capital on the coast Wine. I also founded a city on the mouth of the Indus, hoping that all those deserts and swamps would turn into Flood Plains soon. It turned out I had to wait about a millenium for that (Doh). Also China wouldn't trade Calendar on Pleased. Good for them.
Both Egypt and India had Axemen so I made peace with India (war on spawn) and focused on economy. Oracle bulbed Alphabet, got Math from China and Agriculture from someone else. The plan was to tech Currency and Calendar for Silk Route goodness, since Persia is basically located along the Silk Route. That's one reason to take and hold Samarkand (4 Silk Route resources in its range).
As Immortals are useless against Axemen (which everyone except Babylon had from the beginning), I built about 2 of them in total. I stationed my veteran Immortals in the Arabian desert and near Samarkand where they held off various mounted barbs. They would almost all reach 10 XP just this way, and still remain completely useless against India or Egypt. Instead I teched toward Construction for War Elephants. Took Egypt with my first batch of War Elephants, and noticed that Zara fails geography forever:
Zara would declare on me a few hundred years later accomplishing absolutely nothing. Meanwhile, two Silks spawned near Samarkand, and Silk Route was finally spreading, right after I'd already got all my essential techs (Currency, Construction, Metal Casting) in place:
Time to take India. With a sufficient number of War Elephants, and a few veteran Immortals following along for ceremonial purposes, I invaded India, and left their easternmost city alive to accept their Capitulation (and Meditation, for Monasteries). They collapsed a few decades later. Just what I need - an Indie city to screen out China's border unhappiness and barb Elephants.
With India in Persian hands, the 8% area goal was finally reached, and Silk Route Persia reached its theoretical maximum commerce output:
Which is still pathetic compared to say, Trading Company England. One reason is that China had absolutely no Silk to trade for - I don't know why. They built the Great Wall and all. I guess the AI is just incompetent like that. But I did keep China happy all game with Open Borders and very good trade route yields. Trade with Rome helped for some time too.
Then it's GA (with Mausoleum at Halicarnassus, it's pretty nice), and mass building War Elephants to deal with the countless barbs that spawn all across the Persian Empire. War Elephant is really the go-to unit for Persia, or anyone in the area really, as all barbs are countered by it. Camel Archers not so much, but I can't tech to Engineering early enough (I did about 5 turns before end game). WAR ELEPHANTS!!!
I'm a masochist, but I absolutely did not enjoy fighting off all those barbs. It's just tedious and annoying, with them spawning deep inside your cultural borders in completely non-threatening numbers. The best and only way to deal with this is to keep 3~4 War Elephants in each of your major cities. With Silk Route, you can absolutely afford it.
Oh, and Rome is included in the "barbs" category. Mandate Armies? Come on. I have half a dozen Shock Elephants waiting to welcome your pitiful little band. Come to think of it, I guess that's why Persia starts with Horseback Riding. Shock Elephants via Stable. That's the answer, not Immortals. India built loads of Shock Axemen to anticipate my Immortals too - but instead I invaded with Shock Elephants. Woohoo.
Victory:
Built about 12 Wonders in the end. GLH saved Persia. Otherwise it won't be able to tech anything.
First of all, the Persian UU sucks like a vacuum. The BTS version was awesome because it had virtually no counter. The DoC version is abysmal because everyone has Axemen which absolutely slaughters your "Immortals (what an ironic name)". Actually, the success of early game Persia depends almost entirely on whether Babylonia has Axemen or not - they will almost certainly have Bronze Working, so you need to deny them their Copper asap. Fortunately for me, Babylon didn't have Axemen. So I rolled over them, as well as Phoenicia and Indie Jerusalem, as usual.
Shush was razed by barbs so I founded my capital on the coast Wine. I also founded a city on the mouth of the Indus, hoping that all those deserts and swamps would turn into Flood Plains soon. It turned out I had to wait about a millenium for that (Doh). Also China wouldn't trade Calendar on Pleased. Good for them.
Both Egypt and India had Axemen so I made peace with India (war on spawn) and focused on economy. Oracle bulbed Alphabet, got Math from China and Agriculture from someone else. The plan was to tech Currency and Calendar for Silk Route goodness, since Persia is basically located along the Silk Route. That's one reason to take and hold Samarkand (4 Silk Route resources in its range).
As Immortals are useless against Axemen (which everyone except Babylon had from the beginning), I built about 2 of them in total. I stationed my veteran Immortals in the Arabian desert and near Samarkand where they held off various mounted barbs. They would almost all reach 10 XP just this way, and still remain completely useless against India or Egypt. Instead I teched toward Construction for War Elephants. Took Egypt with my first batch of War Elephants, and noticed that Zara fails geography forever:
Zara would declare on me a few hundred years later accomplishing absolutely nothing. Meanwhile, two Silks spawned near Samarkand, and Silk Route was finally spreading, right after I'd already got all my essential techs (Currency, Construction, Metal Casting) in place:
Time to take India. With a sufficient number of War Elephants, and a few veteran Immortals following along for ceremonial purposes, I invaded India, and left their easternmost city alive to accept their Capitulation (and Meditation, for Monasteries). They collapsed a few decades later. Just what I need - an Indie city to screen out China's border unhappiness and barb Elephants.
With India in Persian hands, the 8% area goal was finally reached, and Silk Route Persia reached its theoretical maximum commerce output:
Which is still pathetic compared to say, Trading Company England. One reason is that China had absolutely no Silk to trade for - I don't know why. They built the Great Wall and all. I guess the AI is just incompetent like that. But I did keep China happy all game with Open Borders and very good trade route yields. Trade with Rome helped for some time too.
Then it's GA (with Mausoleum at Halicarnassus, it's pretty nice), and mass building War Elephants to deal with the countless barbs that spawn all across the Persian Empire. War Elephant is really the go-to unit for Persia, or anyone in the area really, as all barbs are countered by it. Camel Archers not so much, but I can't tech to Engineering early enough (I did about 5 turns before end game). WAR ELEPHANTS!!!
I'm a masochist, but I absolutely did not enjoy fighting off all those barbs. It's just tedious and annoying, with them spawning deep inside your cultural borders in completely non-threatening numbers. The best and only way to deal with this is to keep 3~4 War Elephants in each of your major cities. With Silk Route, you can absolutely afford it.
Oh, and Rome is included in the "barbs" category. Mandate Armies? Come on. I have half a dozen Shock Elephants waiting to welcome your pitiful little band. Come to think of it, I guess that's why Persia starts with Horseback Riding. Shock Elephants via Stable. That's the answer, not Immortals. India built loads of Shock Axemen to anticipate my Immortals too - but instead I invaded with Shock Elephants. Woohoo.
Victory:
Built about 12 Wonders in the end. GLH saved Persia. Otherwise it won't be able to tech anything.
In the next turn everything seems fine..
Indonesia hold the largest map at the beginning when I overthrown them..
It works fine, tough. I am sorry
(Makes me wonder, how far was Mayan map was, considering I have almost all Asia..)
By the way,
How about including the total stability point and turns to great people thingy from the SoI?
And I think Malian Empire is better name for the Islamic Malinese Empire, because :
1) There is no Malinese
2) Malian is always Islam; so, we have to add Christian Kingdom of Portugal, Confucianist Empire of Chinese etc for the same treatment
I got some nice screenshot that probably fit better in OMG, btw.
It's about architecture that even the modern nations in 2012 can't built it
When you found a religion, how about spawning the related Great People?
Hinduism earn Great Prophet (IDK)
Buddhism earn Siddharta Gautama (Great Prophet)
Confucianism earn Kong Fuzi (Great General)
etc?
[lazy to quote]
Yeah, but isn't Yuan is ruled by Mongol people? Which is indirect vassalization?
Or perhaps this one : Great Khanate
I'm also waiting to see the Dynamic name change from Kingdom of Khmer to Kingdom of Nanzhao
When will you start working on v1.9?
Or perhaps I assume there's short hiatus celebrating the milestones (s' okay )
Indonesia hold the largest map at the beginning when I overthrown them..
It works fine, tough. I am sorry
(Makes me wonder, how far was Mayan map was, considering I have almost all Asia..)
By the way,
How about including the total stability point and turns to great people thingy from the SoI?
And I think Malian Empire is better name for the Islamic Malinese Empire, because :
1) There is no Malinese
2) Malian is always Islam; so, we have to add Christian Kingdom of Portugal, Confucianist Empire of Chinese etc for the same treatment
I got some nice screenshot that probably fit better in OMG, btw.
It's about architecture that even the modern nations in 2012 can't built it
When you found a religion, how about spawning the related Great People?
Hinduism earn Great Prophet (IDK)
Buddhism earn Siddharta Gautama (Great Prophet)
Confucianism earn Kong Fuzi (Great General)
etc?
Spoiler :
[lazy to quote]
Yeah, but isn't Yuan is ruled by Mongol people? Which is indirect vassalization?
Or perhaps this one : Great Khanate
I'm also waiting to see the Dynamic name change from Kingdom of Khmer to Kingdom of Nanzhao
When will you start working on v1.9?
Or perhaps I assume there's short hiatus celebrating the milestones
(s' okay )Qiu
Warlord
Yeah, but isn't Yuan is ruled by Mongol people? Which is indirect vassalization?
Or perhaps this one : Great Khanate
I'm also waiting to see the Dynamic name change from Kingdom of Khmer to Kingdom of Nanzhao
I don't think Kong Fuzi was a general
Yuan was ruled by Mongol nobles, specially chosen Han and middle-asian ethic bureaucrats cooperated to administrate. Both Mongolia proper and China were under a same crown. Yuan rulers refused to run Imperial Examination to chose bureaucrats, which was considered to be a major proof of Mandate of the Heaven.
hoplitejoe
Top fun-poster
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2010
- Messages
- 5,470
Tried to play a Babylon UHV but when Persia spawn they flip Babylon.
It's not indirect vassalization, it's direct rule
The Yuan Dynasty was the Great Mongol Empire in China, or after the break-up the Khanate that controlled China. Kublai Khan, wo is a Mongol LH, was of the Yuan Dynasty for example. Vassalization means China ruled by Chinese but in fealty to Mongolia. There is no historical precedent for this, but calling it Khanate + [Mongolian name of China] seems fine to me.
Already planned. Dali = Nanzhao, Pagan = Burma, Hanoi = Dai Viet. Especially the first two are interesting in case they survive the Thai spawn.I'm also waiting to see the Dynamic name change from Kingdom of Khmer to Kingdom of Nanzhao
If you count the concept phase, I have already started. But 1.81 has priority now, and I'll not actually work on 1.9 until that to keep its features from being prematurely committed to the SVN.When will you start working on v1.9?
Or perhaps I assume there's short hiatus celebrating the milestones
That's embarrassing, I'll look at that.
@iOnlySignIn:
Good point about the Immortals. Another argument for removing Axemen from the game.
Fresol
Angry Halfling in Green
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2011
- Messages
- 2,284
I guess Porcelain Tower is not working properly? There's at least 6 civilizations that I don't have OB with. No trade route yield bonus at all.
Also, can someone explain how fast "inflation" increases? I notice in my China game I have 74% inflation rate at 1330AD, while in Qiu's save, his Iran got 73% at 1960AD.
Spoiler :
Also, can someone explain how fast "inflation" increases? I notice in my China game I have 74% inflation rate at 1330AD, while in Qiu's save, his Iran got 73% at 1960AD
.Qiu
Warlord
Maybe not advanced enough? Or poor in defence? They only have two archers defending Peshawar, and their main force troops can be badly damaged by two canons. Easily crushed them by initial armies.
ps: but when I was playing British, the Mughals could grow much stronger. Large armies and not delayed too much in tech.
I didn't add it to the interface, did you actually calculate if it's in?
It increases with your time in the game. Civs that have a long game usually have higher inflation.Also, can someone explain how fast "inflation" increases? I notice in my China game I have 74% inflation rate at 1330AD, while in Qiu's save, his Iran got 73% at 1960AD
Exactly. My usual impression of them is that they're always quite advanced and powerful. I nerfed them a little before release and now I'm afraid that it's too much ... maybe I'll wait for more reports on this.
Fresol
Angry Halfling in Green
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2011
- Messages
- 2,284
