The idolized Obama

[Winner]

Yea, Angela can be a bit loony at times

Angela has NEVER been so idolized as your presidential candidates. I was talking about the man with funny moustache.

 

[classical_hero]

He didn't say he changed the world for the better.

;D

Well it will be only the sense of time will we ever really be able to tell if he did make the right choices. We cannot say that for sure right now. You have to remember during his time as President Abraham Lincoln was very much hated by many people and now we rank him as one of the greats of US Presidents. Given time we could say the same about G.W.Bush should the decision he made turn out to be the right ones he made. Popularity does not make one great.

 

[lovett]

Didn't he just? Two unwinnable wars, a hundred times more terrorists than there ever were
before, thousands of innocent lives lost, America hated more than at any time in history, and
to top it off, a world-wide economic slump. He really changed the world alright. Hats off to GWB!

Clinton's Fault!

 

[Brighteye]

Do not worry, we will become like them in the next 20 years...

Yes, we're picking up all the bad aspects of American culture, but not the rest!

I answered "yes." I think he is different and will accomplish much. He will live up to the hype that Obama supporters want, but he won't live up to the hype that McCain supporters imagine Obama supporters want.

For someone not familiar with all this, explain the difference.

He is inspiring, youthful, and intelligent. But at the end of the day, he will pretty much stick with the standard ways of doing business in DC.

Obama is idolized because of his competitors.

Obama will do something, something else will happen as a result, and in a few years no one will really care anyway

These sum it all up for me. I like Obama; I haven't seen much of him, but he seems almost as pleasant as Hillary, but I have greater trust in the stability of the US system (or the British one) than in a person's ability to change it, whether or not I want it to change or not.

Care to explain?
Churches aren't racist, the leader might be, but you don't have to agree with everything a leader or a pastor says.

I never understood this passion for calling a priest a pastor in US churches. I'm not a sheep; I'm more like a goat. Wasn't an integral part of protestantism the idea that there was only one good shepherd, and everyone else is his flock?

 

[SG-17]

He will either:
A) Lose the election.
B) Be assassinated before his inauguration if he wins.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

Yes, we're picking up all the bad aspects of American culture, but not the rest!

I agree we pick up bad aspects from the American culture, but I'm not sure what the good parts we're leaving behind would be.

I never understood this passion for calling a priest a pastor in US churches. I'm not a sheep; I'm more like a goat. Wasn't an integral part of protestantism the idea that there was only one good shepherd, and everyone else is his flock?

What's your question? I don't know the meaning behind the term pastor, but the difference from a priest is that the priest has undergone some sort of formal, priestly education, whereas the pastor could be without any at all. ..I think.. Protestants don't object every form of leadership.

 

[warpus]

I expect a LOT from Obama on the international front. I expect him to fix all the stupid BS that Bush did and to actually remove the "jackass" label that the United States currently has on the world stage.

I don't really expect much to change, locally, though. I don't believe that the president of the u.s. has enough power to actually make significant changes to the way basic things in your country are done.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

I expect a LOT from Obama on the international front. I expect him to fix all the stupid BS that Bush did and to actually remove the "jackass" label that the United States currently has on the world stage.

I don't really expect much to change, locally, though. I don't believe that the president of the u.s. has enough power to actually make significant changes to the way basic things in your country are done.

He's got great support around the world, so the international relations will go up simply by just winning the election.

On a national level he'll be restrained by the economy, I guess, but I think he'll be able to do the most of the situation.

 

[potatokiosk]

I think Obama can get a lot done. His party will dominate congress and he's charismatic. Whether he's a great president will depend on what he chooses to spend his political capital on.

 

[Eukaryote]

You know I find McCain is worthy of a great deal of respect. He's brave, tough, respectful, and I'd say he doesn't intend to decive anyone.

However Obama has good ideas, good charisma, and a quality education. And I think that matters more than being the brave, adorable old man that everyone loves.

So even though I'd love to see McCain get a cookie and a pat on the back, Obama would be much better at the actual job.

 

[I'm Cleo!]

For someone not familiar with all this, explain the difference.

Opponents of Obama have been incessantly claiming that Obama's supporters perceive the man as a "messiah" -- surely you've seen "Obamaid" thrown around this forum? On its merits, it's bizarre: criticizing someone running for public office in a democracy as being too popular. But there doesn't even seem to be any merit to it, anyway. There were no people running around CFC OT, for example, claiming that Obama is the second coming. I know lots of Obama supporters, and I don't know anyone who viewed Obama like the Obama opponents claim Obama supporters see him. I don't even know that many people for whom Obama was their first choice in the primary.

As in many internet arguments, it's much easier just to pick what you want to argue against, and then argue against that, other people's actual arguments be damned. I think the "Obamaid," "messiah" thing is just a macro example of that phenomenon.

(Moreover, I think there's a strong argument that a cult of personality had actually developed in some areas centered around George W. Bush himself (action figures? deluded comparisons to Churchill?), and that the whole "messiah," "Obamaid" stuff is just weird psychological projection. But I'm an Obama supporter, so maybe you could say that my writing this paragraph is the same thing.)

Cleo

 

[Squarg]

He will do well but he has a very high bar to leap and short of being the next FDR he will be criticized.

 

[Oruc]

he'll probably be the same as most politicians maybe even worse, I'd prefer Mccain to win anyway

 

[Phlegmak]

Angela has NEVER been so idolized as your presidential candidates. I was talking about the man with funny moustache.

This guy?

Or this one?

 

[luiz]

Obama is a populist demagogue who reminds me of latin american politicians. It is very hard to antecipate what demagogues will do once in power, but expect nothing great. I don't expect anything terrible either, because the american institutions are quite solid.

But yeah, americans have indeed come out as silly and gullible.

I voted: "No he is more or less like any politician" - of Nicaragua.

 

[Brighteye]

Opponents of Obama have been incessantly claiming that Obama's supporters perceive the man as a "messiah" -- surely you've seen "Obamaid" thrown around this forum?
As in many internet arguments, it's much easier just to pick what you want to argue against, and then argue against that, other people's actual arguments be damned. I think the "Obamaid," "messiah" thing is just a macro example of that phenomenon.

Cleo

I actually sympathised with that view, because before I saw much on the internet about Obama I came across news stories and a fair few Americans over here who obsessively supported Obama, and yet I interacted with very devoted supporters well before I discovered much about his policies (and I still haven't discovered much about his home policies).
Maybe Obama was just so good that those who found out about him realised that he was that much better, and became keen supporters before he became well known (and becoming a known figure in a foreign country takes longer than in one's own, usually), but it seemed and seems very much as though he was a lot of style and support without sufficient worthwhile policies that really stand out.
Maybe that's the problem with a slick campaign: as you focus on the image that's necessary for many voters, you lose a few people who actually care very much about policies.

I agree we pick up bad aspects from the American culture, but I'm not sure what the good parts we're leaving behind would be.
What's your question? I don't know the meaning behind the term pastor, but the difference from a priest is that the priest has undergone some sort of formal, priestly education, whereas the pastor could be without any at all. ..I think.. Protestants don't object every form of leadership.

Pastor comes from the Latin for shepherd. God, or Jesus, is known colloquially as The Good Shepherd. Protestantism rejected, amongst other things, the concept that we are not worthy to address God himself and require intercession and mediation from saints.
The concept that we require a shepherd (in name, if not in function) seems antithetical to the individuality that seems central to protestantism.

Good aspects of American culture include the friendliness and generosity that so often characterises individuals, and the melting-pot approach to multiculturalism, rather than the obsequious 'bow-before-foreign-cultures' approach that our government takes.

 

[luiz]

I actually sympathised with that view, because before I saw much on the internet about Obama I came across news stories and a fair few Americans over here who obsessively supported Obama,

Isn't it funny how alot of people from all over the world get the impression that some Obama supporters are just a little bit on the obsessive side? And yet those same fellas that are on that side insist that there is nothing like that going on, that are all inventions from the McCain campaign.

I am brazilian and yet I still think that some are obsessive. You are a brit and you see something like that as well. Maybe they ought to reflect a little.

 

[Masquerouge]

Isn't it funny how alot of people from all over the world get the impression that some Obama supporters are just a little bit on the obsessive side? And yet those same fellas that are on that side insist that there is nothing like that going on, that are all inventions from the McCain campaign.

I am brazilian and yet I still think that some are obsessive. You are a brit and you see something like that as well. Maybe they ought to reflect a little.

To be honest the exact same thing could have been said about some of the most ferocious Bush supporters.

 

[luiz]

To be honest the exact same thing could have been said about some of the most ferocious Bush supporters.

Certainly, certainly. But tell an obsessed Obama supporter that he sounds alot like a ferocious Bush supporter and he will attack you.

Edit: my favourite brazilian contemporary writer, Diogo Mainardi, just wrote a wonderful column mocking Obama and his supporters. It's only a matter of time before more people see how ridiculous they can get.

And all that international good will towards Obama? Let's see where it'll be once he implements his protectionist crap. China already hates him, it's only a matter of time before Canada and Europe do too. Unless he betrays his commitments to the trade unions, what would be a pleasant development and perhaps likely, given that he is a politician just like any other and won't hesitate to break his promiesses.

 

[Cutlass]

ya know, for a group of people who made a patron saint out of Reagan, they have no place to be throwing stones because a handful of people are very enthusiastic about Obama