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The Official Perfection KOs Creationism Thread Part Five: The Revenge of Mike Shermer

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Perfection, Nov 21, 2007.

  1. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    Well, I saw a docu on that very subject. An archaeologist followed journals from various Mesopotamian diplomats/messengers to a region east of Ararat and west of the Caspian near the borders of Iran, Iraq and Armenia. He found a valley with an old city that fit the physical descriptions in the journals and the Bible. But if it is the place, the Garden is long gone buried by the city.

    The hominid record is quite good, thats what I point to when someone claims evolution is false. But there is a significant gap around 100-200 kya, we made quite a leap forward while homo erectus continued in stasis in other parts of the world. Even the little people they found on Flores recently show an affinity to erectus and the people in that area claim these little people were living within a couple centuries. We know erectus lived in Indonesia 50-75 kya so the key now is figuring out why a select group of erectus in E Africa became archaic humans and us while their brethren remained erectus up until recent times...
     
  2. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    You are officially mad. Goodbye.
     
  3. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    and you're running away without answering my questions, bravo. You and Stewie read the same playbook?
     
  4. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    Your 'interpretation' of Genesis reads far more into the story than can really be lifted from the text. Thus it is obvious that you are not actually thinking critically about the matter. And at the point where you deny that Genesis refers to creation you are so far off the map of any interpretation I am aware of that further debate seems pointless.

    If you want a reply, please describe in detail how you make the mind boggling leaps from the text to the conclusions you draw from it, e.g. how you get a planet spinning around the sun from the stuff about light and dark, I mean it's not like it was so obviously a reference to a heliocentric solar system of spinning globes that it didn't take a couple of thousand years for Copernicus to suggest that interpretation? And yet here you are drawing that conclusion like it's the most obvious thing going. Highly dubious.
     
  5. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Anything non-domesticated?
     
  6. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    Drophosilia whatever it is. (the fruit fly)
     
  7. holy king

    holy king Deity

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    its drosophilia...
    what about antibiotics resistant bacteria?
    bacteria in general?
    viruses?
    this question lacks so much knowledge of biology, its hard to imagine its meant serious...
     
  8. Simple Simon

    Simple Simon Simpleton

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    So you say that 'knowledge of good and evil' is an autapomorphy of Homo sapiens? Or of the entire genus Homo? Could you please define this autapomorphy in a meaningful way? That is: define 'good', 'bad', 'knowledge', and how we are supposed to be able to distinguish the presence of this autapomorphy in fossil finds (fossil, because nearly all descendants of Adam and Eve are by now dead, and there is no reliable eyewitness account of their knowledge).


    :)


    To save you time, let me just ask ONE question: if the 'evolution' of this supposed trait distinguishes humans from non-human animals, how come chimp and other primates as well as some parrot and dolphin species have an understanding of it?
     
  9. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    C'mon, I specified a 'larger' animal before. I still mean it. We have all of North America to work with, you'd think we could find another species which appeared after people.
     
  10. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    Those Cichlid fishes are a good example. Whatever lake they're in. We just haven't been around long enough to observe speciation in the larger animals, although i've pointed out before that Ligers and Tigons are probably indicative of ongoing speciation. As are mules and hinneys.
     
  11. Simple Simon

    Simple Simon Simpleton

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    I must say that this and your previous posts is the most blantantly offensively aggressive posting and the most extreme cherry-picking and semantics-twisting I have ever read here! Basically, if the bible says 'black', but you need it to say 'yellow', you'll just redefine that 'black is what God called yellow before he turned it yellow, so it's the proto-yellow' :lol:
     
  12. Simple Simon

    Simple Simon Simpleton

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    It is currently occupied by American forces, setting up an moderately extremist Islamic government :) Euphrate and Tigris mean anything to you? :)
     
  13. Simple Simon

    Simple Simon Simpleton

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    you must remember that the fossil record is extremely sketchy if you look at a 'a few 10,000 year' resolution. If we want to find such a 'new' animal, we are then limited to areas with rapid sedimentation rates - which do not usually give BACK the fossils. There are not too many places in the world where massive deposition (to allow the resolution) in the recent past is today followed by massive erosion and exposure. Take, e.g., gazelles - huge number of species, highly specialized - but the fossil record is poor because of their habitat. So it is difficult to find a species that evolved within the last 200,000 years and can be told apart from ancestors and relatives based on a skeleton (says a geology minor - I may be wrong).
     
  14. Yuri2356

    Yuri2356 Test Screening

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    Who's theory of evolution are you working with, Lamark's? 'Cause unless that fruit of knowledge was chock full of retroviri that rewrote parts of Adam's sperm, there's no reason that any pybroduct of eating that fruit should have become inheritable by his offspring. If he abruptly realized the nature of good and evil, then he was born with the capacity to do so.

    If he just had some sort of personal revelation, which he then taught to his wife and descendants, then that would be a story about the formation of culture and philosophy.

    If god wants to present us with an accurate story of the world, couldn't it have been a bit more explicit? Don't you think the ancient hebrews had the right words to describe: "For he made life such that in each generation was great diversity and limits of food, such that those best fit would breed most numerously and pass on said fitness to their progeny. And in this way it was that from the first life came all others, over many thousands of thousands of years, as each line found its place in which to fit upon the earth."

    There, would that have been so difficult for a diety to have someone scratch down on some parchment?
     
  15. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Okay, how about new 'larger' species in the last 3 million years (to arrive after Lucy)?
     
  16. Simple Simon

    Simple Simon Simpleton

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    same difficulty - you need to find special circumstances. The longer the time, the better the chances.

    it is actually easier to look for special circumstances, then check if there are new species - and they then are easy to find: think of all the Tanganjika(?sp) fish! I do not know they correct term, but the young, volcanic lake can be dated, and it is choke full of rapidly evolving species. Since they are endemic, they must have separated from a common ancestor within the lake, and this means within the time the lake existed.

    As for large mammals: you'll have to as an expert, but I believe the cave bear (Ursus spelaeus) is commonly accepted to have lived from roughly half a million (or less) to some 15,000 years ago, evolved out of Ursus deningeri. Caves = special circumstances ;)
     
  17. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

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    So, how about the Bornean Clouded Leopard (Neofelis diardi, ~25kg)? Divergence from the mainland Clouded (Neofelis neobulosa) Leopard is estimated at 1.5Ma.
     
  18. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Thanks guys!

    Feel free to ping me if you find out about any new appearances in the last 200,000 years though!
     
  19. Perfection

    Perfection The Great Head.

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    It's not my theory, it's the dominant scientific opinion. The change in orbit was insufficient to bring it to some new area in space (so on the order of a few million miles or less). We're talking a point then in between Mars and Venus roughly where Earth today (correcting for the fact that planetary orbits increase in radius over billions of years due decreasing solar mass).

    Yes
    There's no complete theory but certainly there are clearly evident patterns. The current thinking about Giant Impact (Earth's orginal orbit being roughly where it is now, and the impactor being formed at one of the Earth's Lagrange points) certainly does fit in with planetary formation theory.
    It is based on the actual evidence, (Earth/lunar weight and density, planetary formation patterns, angular momentum etc. etc.) just because you don't know it and I'm not going to fully flesh out every bit of theory doesn't mean it doesn't have signficant evidence.

    Why? Isn't it obvious that after 4.some billion years the debris could get scattered by gravitational interaction with planets?

    You're thinking about LHB, which has nothing to do with Giant Impact Hypothesis.

    I don't think there is any direct geologic evidence of anything before the giant impact including water presence.

    Yep! It's not my fault if that doesn't make intuitive sense to you, you should work on overcoming that, because your intuition of orbital mechanics seems to suck.

    How the hell would it do that?


    This seems to be a case of infantile knowitallism, you're not an expert on orbital mechanics, why do you believe that you know more then the experts on it?
     
  20. Phlegmak

    Phlegmak Deity

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    You know, Perfection, I had thought that these threads of yours were pointless, due to no longer needing to explain evolution. Well, I was wrong apparently.
     

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