Well, I think it's time with the closing of the to stir the old pot again! Let's first put down links to the first few: Part one Part two: The Empiricists Strike Back! Part three: The Return of the KOing! Part four: The Genesis of Ire! This thread will be started start the new thread for the following reasons: 1. So Evolutionists get the first word 2. To enlighten the masses to the evidence for evolution including: evolutionists unaware of some of the fascinating evidence, those in the middle who need to see the light, creationists to combat the notion that evolution has no evidence and that creationism is scientific. 3. So I can set up some fair ground rules to make the thread more fun. 4. Sadistic Pleasure 5, The old thread was (well, will be) closed The Rules: 1. No swamping the thread with articles. If you feel an article would be appropriate you may post it, but please only one per response. Also do not just post some random article, please use it as a means to augment your arguement, not as your arguement. 2. No yelling at someone to read a book. You want to post an exerpt from a book as part of your arguement, be my guest. However, yelling at someone to read a book is not going help. 3. We are arguing scientific credibility, therefore religious texts are not by fiat correct. If you want to argue religious philosophy go to this thread. Please stay on topic 4. All standard forum rules apply, especially the no flaming, trolling and spamming rules. While one may consider their opposition to be incorrect let's not assert that they are not intelligent. Here's my claims: 1. Evolution is a valid scientific claim 2. Creationism is not a valid scientific claim Note: When I refer to creationism I'm refering to god creating life directly (not through evolution), this includes such permutations as intelligent design theory, gap creationism as well as literal 7-day creationism. I am not refering to evolutionary creationism. As always I'll start wtih a little topic starter: In science the normal route for theories are they are posited by cadre of perponants and then immediately tried to to be ripped apart be the rest of the scientific community. Only those that can survive that onslaught make it into the textbook. Evolution has survived this onslaught for many many decades and has become one of those celebrated theories that emerge through all attempts to break it. Why should we then believe that the errors in this theory has been somehow missed by the scientific community? If we are to believe the creationists, what made scientists so stupid? I can't think of a single thoery that was ever held to neerly the same esteem as evolution from the scientific community that was demonstrated to be completely false, so why this one?