The Screwed Generation

[TheMeInTeam]

Employers favor 4 year degrees because they teach communication and critical thinking skills

Hahahaha! In undergrad, over the past 10 years?

No way.

90% of my friends who graduated in STEM like fields are now doing fine. 50% of everybody else is having problems

Not exactly a surprising outcome.

 

[Lexicus]

I agree. I mean not to pile on but seriously most of the country does not live in areas where rent is $3000 a month. Idk what hobs is doing, that's his business, but I think his situation is less reflective of the rest of america than the norm.

Places where rent is cheaper also tend to have jobs that pay less.

I'm just saying it really doesn't seem that dire out here.

Look, I've been trying to be nice but I'm done now. You don't know what the **** you're talking about and the cluelessness of people like you is breeding a generation of people with zero investment in the status quo.

Hahahaha! In undergrad, over the past 10 years?

No way.

Depends what you get your degree in. If you go to, say, business school, I agree, you learn how to lick capitalist boots but not how to think critically.

 

[warpus]

You'd think less and less people would be going into non-stem like programs as a result of all this.. but... more and more people are blowing $50k+ on an education and are then.. surprised there's no jobs for some reason?

 

[Gori the Grey]

If you are just going to complain about the youth or entitlements or whatever and be old just leave an address for where you'd like to be picked up to be converted into meat product.

Ok. I'll save my comment about you whipper-snappers until my own fortunes have sunk so low that getting eaten is my remaining best option. But then you entitled little brats'll be hearing from me, you better believe!

In the mean time, get off my lawn!

 

[warpus]

What's a whipper-snapper, anyway? I've never seen any kids snapping whips at things

 

[Gori the Grey]

The OED just puts a ? in front of its etymology; the best they can do is guess. First used in the sixteenth century. Don't know what kids were snapping whips then, either.

 

[Peuri]

Otherwise we may have a toaster uprising on our hands..

This is an interesting question. When we get sentient robots, will they see machine or non-sentient robot labour as slavery? Will they show little kiddie robots pictures of 19th century luddite propaganda? Or whine how the organics have always portrayed the machine as the other in their movies and created a narrative of the evil machineman?

 

[Birdjaguar]

The OED just puts a ? in front of its etymology; the best they can do is guess. First used in the sixteenth century. Don't know what kids were snapping whips then, either.

Maybe: unskilled or untrained kids with nothing to do spent their time cracking whips rather than working.

What was your tuition? How different would your life have been if you graduated from B school having to pay $1,000 a month (or more!) in loans?

The barriers to starting a family with children are staggering these days. Many people have to choose at age 18 whether to accrue a massive pile of debt in the hopes of obtaining a reasonably good paying job, or forego the debt but limit their lifetime earning potential. Obviously, there are other ways, but if one ends up working and going to school at the same time, they're either living at home and delaying their social development, or still accruing debt while delaying any meaningful advancement to a place where they can realistically afford to start a family.

If you want this to change, don't lecture people on how they can make different life choices. Those choices don't exist. We need to drastically reduce the financial burden people face at the beginning of adulthood. We also need to drastically reduce the financial burdens people now in their 60s face too, because you know why? "Free" child care with a family member doesn't exist any more either, because grandma and grandpa and great Aunt and great Uncle also have to work until they die, because they stopped earning a pension 30 years ago and Social Security will barely pay enough to feed and medicate them if they stop.

Your question is taxing my memory. Like everything else back then, things were different and the context is important. IIRC tuition for 2 years was about $25,000 (could have been each year though). I attended UNC Chapel Hill (a top 10 B school then) and I lived nearby so I had no moving expenses or additional living costs. I paid tuition from savings and a small "loan" from my family. When I graduated, the Wall Street investment banker types were taking jobs at $80,000 a year. The rest of us were hoping for something in the range of $40-50,000 in some regional market. So I graduated debt free for all practical purposes. During the two years of the program our son was born and my wife stopped working to stay home. We lived hand-to-mouth. Our housing was free, because we were building our house ourselves and just stopped working on it. It was about 60% done. There was no such thing as a $1000 a month loan payment. I got my first CC in 1984 (it says so on my card today: member since 1984). I was 36.

The barriers today are one of scale and expectations. Huge college debt is new to the equation from my day. We/they took out loans to pay for our kid's college; they never saw the bills. We paid for all their debt just so they could get a clean start on life after college. That just seems appropriate to me. It probably took ten years to close out both sets of loans. We could afford it much better than they could.

Choice always exits. The various options change as do the variety of outcomes. At the most fundamental level you always have action and non action; do nothing or do something. If I were lecturing Hobbs, I'm sure he would tell me so.

Lecture to Metalhead: If you want to open the doors to success, start by being good at something. Aim for being better than most others at that.

 

[luiz]

90% of my friends who graduated in STEM like fields are now doing fine. 50% of everybody else is having problems

Good point, I of course graduated in engineering.
I know a couple of high school friends who studied communication or whatever and are doing less than brilliantly. But most are doing fine.

I'm extremely surprised, I honestly thought you were in your mid-50s or mid-60s. I'm totally not surprised that you hate being classified as a millennial.

I'm flattered, but I'm 32

But I think people in their 30's have nothing to do with all the stereotypes associated with millenials.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I think to some degree some people are talking past each other.

It seems true to me that when picking the "right" career path, and of course when you are able to also master this path, no one needs to sit in the rain.. In so far I agree with civvver. Any modern rich western economy is naturally still full of great opportunities.
A drastic example: If you get your degree in electric engineering in Germany, it is close to impossible to not land a job. Because Germany could probably employ twice as many graduates as in total even exist (or so the professor who heads the faculty at my university said). But electric engineering is also one of the hardest degrees you can go for.

On the other hand - this observation is not as meaningful as it may appear. It enables you to put the blame on each single individual. But if each single individual actually was blame free in this regard, then crap would really hit the fan. Any profession is in the end only a more or less secure path towards financial well-being because enough people don't pursue it (or are bluntly not allowed to pursue it by some artificial cap, my American host dad was a doctor and as I recall it is for instance pre-determined how many doctors there can be in America, which is not unusual).

What that means is: For the nation as a whole, it does not really matter weather some professional paths are doing fine, because a nation existentially depends on a great variety of paths.
So you can not reasonably counter the drastic statistics of the OP with anecdotes from your class. (while of course it is still relevant and IMO interesting)

 

[warpus]

@Terxpahseyton You are right that society depends on there being a decent varieties of success possible for the people. But you are wrong that individual stories do not matter. They do, because future generations can learn from this information and improve their chances of getting into a good field and job.

 

[luiz]

I think to some degree some people are talking past each other.

It seems true to me that when picking the "right" career path, and of course when you are able to also master this path, no one needs to sit in the rain.. In so far I agree with civvver. Any modern rich western economy is naturally still full of great opportunities.
A drastic example: If you get your degree in electric engineering in Germany, it is close to impossible to not land a job. Because Germany could probably employ twice as many graduates as in total even exist (or so the professor who heads the faculty at my university said). But electric engineering is also one of the hardest degrees you can go for.

On the other hand - this observation is not as meaningful as it may appear. It enables you to put the blame on each single individual. But if each single individual actually was blame free in this regard, then crap would really hit the fan. Any profession is in the end only a more or less secure path towards financial well-being because enough people don't pursue it (or are bluntly not allowed to pursue it by some artificial cap, my American host dad was a doctor and as I recall it is for instance pre-determined how many doctors there can be in America, which is not unusual).

What that means is: For the nation as a whole, it does not really matter weather some professional paths are doing fine, because a nation existentially depends on a great variety of paths.
So you can not reasonably counter the drastic statistics of the OP with anecdotes from your class. (while of course it is still relevant and IMO interesting)

Well one could argue that the nation as a whole could benefit from a realignment of career paths. Maybe a lot of western countries need less people studying art history and political science and more studying electrical engineering.

A great mismatch in skills explains why some countries have both high unemployment and labor shortages in some areas, depending on immigrants to fill the gaps.

 

[warpus]

People can study whatever they want, but I mean.. have a plan. If there is a shortage of political scientists in your region and they are getting paid the big bucks, and you're into political science, maybe it's not such a bad idea to look into political science. But if you live in the desert maybe don't study forestry. Or at least have a plan to at some point move closer to a forested area.

 

[luiz]

Yeah. A well functioning economy is capable of providing jobs for virtually everyone willing to work, but not necessarily in the area of their choosing. Of course people should study what they love, but students should still take into account supply and demand when choosing (unless they don't need to work).

 

[warpus]

Yeah. A well functioning economy is capable of providing jobs for virtually everyone willing to work

I don't think that's necessarily true, especially at a time when more and more things are getting automated. But IMO if you are an up and coming student it is in your best interest to figure out the trends in the fields of the different types of jobs that might be options for you.. and using that information to figure out a financial plan for the future including potential careers in those fields. Or I don't know, at least take it as far as I did i.e. "hmm I guess I wouldn't mind working with computers, it doesn't seem to be a fad and there seem to be a lot of good jobs"

IMO it's cool to be passionate about a field that might not necessarily pay well, but at least have a plan. And a backup plan. If your plan is "1 in 400 chance of becoming an actual lumberjack" after you graduate from forestry school, then you gotta know what you're doing for money the minute your lumberjack dreams shatter into nothing

 

[innonimatu]

Hun, who's saving for retirement? I'm going to work until I get the grabber. And I think I know it.

Economists keep talking about increased productivity (every trade pact, every "economic reform" has been sold with that forecast attached, not to mention all the promises of "new tech"...) yet newer generations expect to have to work until they fall over. Interesting situation...

 

[metalhead]

Well one could argue that the nation as a whole could benefit from a realignment of career paths. Maybe a lot of western countries need less people studying art history and political science and more studying electrical engineering.

Or maybe they don't. Do you really think there are that many people studying art history? Would society really benefit from a lack of docents, restorers, and curators?

Not everybody has the aptitude to study electrical engineering. Chances are pretty good that if one does have the aptitude, they are studying it already or something similar. After all, an 18 year old doesn't have a whole lot to go on when picking a course of study. Interest and aptitude are going to make up the lion's share of the deciding factors. How many STEM majors do you know who would also do well in the humanities, and vice versa?

The world would be a better place a million times over if people were more able and more encouraged to work towards things which make them happy, and less towards things which make them money.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

A lack of people who studied social sciences in Silicon Valley has been a factor in Silicon Valley being a sociopathic hellscape.

 

[metalhead]

I want to have faith in Millennials, but they basically ruined San Francisco, so nah.

 

[Farm Boy]

Economists keep talking about increased productivity (every trade pact, every "economic reform" has been sold with that forecast attached, not to mention all the promises of "new tech"...) yet newer generations expect to have to work until they fall over. Interesting situation...

I'm not sure that this is a new development for my strain.