The Thread Where We Discuss Guns and Gun Control

[Commodore]

But if you're loosing more than 10 rounds while dealing with a predatory animal (without the opportunity to reload), it's probably time to take up fishing.

That's not entirely true though. If an animal is charging that you believe can kill you, that's going to put you in fear mode which will affect your ability to shoot accurately. Even more so if you were caught somewhat off guard by it. That could lead to "panic fire" in which case you are going to need the extra rounds to bring the animal down.

 

[El_Machinae]

You think it's a good idea to give 30 round magazines to people who can panic and accidentally waste 2/3rds of them? Rather than suggest they should take up golfing or something?

I mean, if they panic so badly, maybe we don't want them armed as is.

If you need magazines larger than 10 for animals, I daresay you're not qualified to have the gun in the first place

 

[Lexicus]

I'm just describing cultural mores as well. The liberal in me cannot say why it's disgusting, if it doesn't actually hurt anybody. It's just against the vibe of the culture.

Would you mind asking Farm Boy what he thinks if the target is real, but long dead?

 

[Commodore]

You think it's a good idea to give 30 round magazines to people who can panic and accidentally waste 2/3rds of them? Rather than suggest they should take up golfing or something?

I mean, if they panic so badly, maybe we don't want them armed as is.

If you need magazines larger than 10 for animals, I daresay you're not qualified to have the gun in the first place

This sentiment comes from a lack of understanding of how people react in life or death situations. Even the most well-trained and disciplined soldiers panic a bit when the bullets start flying.

And I'm not trying to insult you or anything with the above. It's perfectly understandable to not have an understanding of defensive shooting and life or death situations because that's something the vast majority of the population generally doesn't have to worry about.

In any case, even if you aren't panicking, "mag dumping" is a pretty standard defensive shooting tactic. The idea being that you don't stop shooting the threat until it is clear that the threat is neutralized. This is because you don't know how many rounds it's going to take to bring the target down. Common belief is that one well-placed round will do the trick, but that is rarely the case on reality. If a human can sometimes take six, seven, eight, or even more shots before finally going down, how many do you think an animal can take?

Seriously, I urge you to take a defensive shooting course. They will train you to mag dump into your target and they will show you why that is a standard in both police training and close quarters marskmanship training for the military.

So yeah, I'd say someone who mag dumps into their target is qualified to have a gun, because it shows they've been trained in defensive shooting.

 

[cardgame]

@Commodore I don't think this forum will accept current US police training as a good operating protocol. And they probably shouldn't.

 

[Estebonrober]

Again you show your ignorance. Just because you don't hunt for your food doesn't mean no one does. I have a freezer full of dear meat that proves your statement to be false. And a lot of other hunters out there also have freezers full of meat from their kills as well to prove you even more wrong.

You've been to college right? If so, I'm sure you learned at some point not to make absolute statements like that unless you know for certain it is correct.

Just because you eat your hunt, doesn't mean you hunt for sustenance. Just because I'm not a gun guy doesn't mean I don't get to have an opinion on how they are regulated.

 

[Estebonrober]

A selection of results from a FOX News poll conducted August 11-13 of 1,013 people. I've written the questions and percentages verbatim, but I've plucked 6 response groups out of the much larger data set. I've also written the response groups out as, for example, "Republican voters", where the data set simply says "Rep."

35. Requiring criminal background checks on all gun buyers, including those buying at gun shows and private sales: Do you favor or oppose each of the following proposals to reduce gun violence?

Republican voters in favor: 89%
Republican voters against: 8%
Democrat voters in favor: 92%
Democrat voters against: 6%
Independent voters in favor: 87%
Independent voters against: 7%

36. Banning assault rifles and semi-automatic weapons: Do you favor or oppose each of the following proposals to reduce gun violence?

Republican voters in favor: 46%
Republican voters against: 46%
Democrat voters in favor: 86%
Democrat voters against: 10%
Independent voters in favor: 58%
Independent voters against: 28%

37. Allowing police to temporarily take guns away from people who have been shown to be a danger to themselves or others: Do you favor or oppose each of the following proposals to reduce gun violence?

Republican voters in favor: 75%
Republican voters against: 19%
Democrat voters in favor: 88%
Democrat voters against: 7%
Independent voters in favor: 72%
Independent voters against: 15%

---

I don't know if I like question #37. I think it's trying to gauge opinion of the so-called "Red Flag" laws, but as I understand these laws, the person reported doesn't need to have been shown to be a danger to themselves or others, but merely suspected of it by someone who knows them. If this question was never meant to be about "Red Flag" laws, I'd be curious to see the responses to a question that is.

Incidentally, I've heard that, in the states that have tried one of these systems, the overwhelming majority of these citizen "red flag" alerts have been related to people who are suicidal, rather than homicidal. It's likely that these laws won't impact these mass shootings very much, but if these media-frenzy events lead to a reduction in suicides, even if it's by accident, then maybe it was worth it.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: Suicide Mortality by State for 2017 (age-adjusted rates per 100,000; nation-wide the age-adjusted rate is 14.0; and I don't know what 'age-adjusted' means):

1. Montana 28.9
2. Alaska 27
3. Wyoming 26.9
4. New Mexico 23.3
5. Idaho 23.2
6. Utah 22.7
7. S. Dakota 22.5
8. W. Virginia 21.1
9. Arkansas 20.8
10. Nevada & Colorado 20.3

BearingArms.com, What's the gun ownership rate in your state? (percentage of population; results of a 2015 survey of 4,000 people by the journal Injury Prevention; national 'average' is 29.1% - I don't know if that's the mean or the median; and I'm not familiar with this website or that journal, so I can't vouch for either):

1. Alaska 61.7%
2. Arkansas 57.9%
3. Idaho 56.9%
4. W. Virginia 54.2%
5. Wyoming 53.8%
6. Montana 52.3%
7. New Mexico 49.9%
8. Alabama 48.9%
9. N. Dakota 47.9%
10. Hawaii 45.1%

I'd love to see these data compared in some kind of graphic, ideally with all 50 states. I don't have that kind of time, though. (The sites I linked do have data on all 50 states, I just don't feel like typing all that.)

Very nice posts. the correlation is pretty uncanny, and its long been known that the gun lobby is over ruling the will of the people. . .

 

[Birdjaguar]

That's not entirely true though. If an animal is charging that you believe can kill you, that's going to put you in fear mode which will affect your ability to shoot accurately. Even more so if you were caught somewhat off guard by it. That could lead to "panic fire" in which case you are going to need the extra rounds to bring the animal down.

Again, do you have any examples of folks defending themselves from wild animals and needing/using an AR to save themselves?

 

[Estebonrober]

http://www.tampabay.com/florida-pol...otings-downplay-white-nationalism-blame-left/

“We also can’t excuse violence from the left such as the El Paso shooter, the recent Colorado shooters, the Congressional baseball shooter, Congresswoman Giffords’ shooter and Antifa."

U.S. Rep. Gus Bilirakis, R-Palm Harbor, included the talking points in a newsletter that he emailed this week to his Florida constituents. His spokeswoman Summer Robertson said they were “provided by the House Republican Conference," the caucus arm in charge of devising messaging strategy for its members. The conference’s internal strategies are not usually made public.

WTH

 

[El_Machinae]

Keep in mind, I'm not saying someone wouldn't use 30 rounds while defending themselves from an animal. As you say, you use everything when you decide to use everything. It's not like you're going to stop after 10 shots to see if the charging bear is slowing down sufficiently

If I brought a bazooka to defend myself against bears, I would use it in the process of defending myself against bears. In retrospect, if you're too simplistic, it looks like the bazooka was necessary

But there are very few edge cases where 10 rounds wouldn't have been sufficient and 30 rounds is. And those edge cases, in their absolute rarity, don't justify that casualties are doubled during mass shooting incidents.

If you need 30 in the woods when 10 wouldn't do, maybe you should choose the option of staying home. The kids aren't allowed to, they have to go to school. In other words, one party is accepting risk. The other isn't.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

http://www.tampabay.com/florida-pol...otings-downplay-white-nationalism-blame-left/

“We also can’t excuse violence from the left such as the El Paso shooter, the recent Colorado shooters, the Congressional baseball shooter, Congresswoman Giffords’ shooter and Antifa."

U.S. Rep. Gus Bilirakis, R-Palm Harbor, included the talking points in a newsletter that he emailed this week to his Florida constituents. His spokeswoman Summer Robertson said they were “provided by the House Republican Conference," the caucus arm in charge of devising messaging strategy for its members. The conference’s internal strategies are not usually made public.

WTH

It's called bald faced lying. Certainly nothing new, and I'm sure you aren't surprised. Remember, you're dealing with the party that blamed Obama for poor response to a hurricane that happened years before he took office.

 

[rah]

If you have a 30 bullet magazine your hunting ceases to be a sport, it's just killing for fun.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

If you have a 30 bullet magazine your hunting ceases to be a sport, it's just killing for fun.

Or you're a terrible shot and shouldn't be allowed to own or shoot guns in the first place but hey who needs standards when you can have moar firepower?

 

[rah]

Or you're just a red-neck.

 

[Farm Boy]

There's no just about it, other than you're just jealous whiskey delta.

 

[El_Machinae]

I come from a long line of rednecks that were completely capable of living off the land without using 30 round magazines

 

[Farm Boy]

I've never owned a semi, the "conversation" using common terms is braindead from the start.

It's admitted, rednecks "R DUM" but city slickers, they get so much spooge in their ears wanking it they don't even know where the conversation begins or ends.

 

[Commodore]

If you have a 30 bullet magazine your hunting ceases to be a sport, it's just killing for fun.

I'm really getting tired of repeating myself. You don't use the AR with the 30 round magazine for hunting. You have it to defend yourself from some animal out there that decides it wants to start hunting you.

Or you're a terrible shot and shouldn't be allowed to own or shoot guns in the first place

Funny thing about rights: You get to exercise them no matter how terrible you might be at using that right effectively.

 

[El_Machinae]

Damn straight. No matter how many school children get shot.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'm really getting tired of repeating myself. You don't use the AR with the 30 round magazine for hunting. You have it to defend yourself from some animal out there that decides it wants to start hunting you.

Other than, perhaps grizzlies, What is going to be "hunting" you or any other hunter? I guess you could use one against ticks that get on your arm or leg if you live in deer country....