Patroklos
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I am chocking on the smug.
The Wall Street Occupation Part 2
- Thread starter Crezth
- Start date
I am chocking on the smug.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
The criticism which I quoted was of their actions, not of their rhetoric, so this is not a meaningful response to my point.
For someone with a flag-and-eagle avatar, you seem rather poorly acquainted with the chronology of the American Revolution.
Soviet habits are hard to shake, I see.
Here's an interesting chart regarding wealth and prosperity, wealth distribution, and how they are related to liberal practices:
Clicky clicky
Clicky clicky
CaptainF
The Professional Poster
Yeah, there's far too many smug cops and authority figures who think they can do no wrong.
Astute observation, sir. By the way I do believe it's "choking".
useless
Social Justice Rogue
<snip>
Clearly they are jobless because they are feckless and lazy, and because there are so many jobs out there such as
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ParkCungHee
Deity
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Assuming most of them are New York residents?
Yes.
That's probably a separate issue but one OWS should tackle.
I live in Davis. I have friends who were involved in these protests.
This was particularly disturbing/disgusting. These students were non-violent. No one was under any threat. That area is fairly wide open and no one was having their freedom of movement prevented (other than adding a few extra minutes to walk arouind).
I can't (and don't wish to) speak for other Occupy movements, but in terms of the costs of the UC and other state university systems in CA, they have legitimate complaints in terms of the skyrocketing costs, etc...
CaptainF
The Professional Poster
I doth protest! These violent students were sitting and linking arms. Textbook definition of violence! Why, just imagine if they'd started singing kumbaya...the violent audio could have been heard for hundreds of feet!
Tani Coyote
Son of Huehuecoyotl
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Getting too specific alienates people.
Lacking any specific goals, on the other hand, makes it kind of hard to accomplish anything.
Let's say they all go to the polls.
"What do we want?!" "We don't know!" "When do we want it?!" "Now!"
Never mind the complete ridiculousness of protesting businesses, rather than government. The state has the real power, and you need to get the state to serve the people rather than interests. You don't do that by protesting the interests.
The Tea Party had a rather simple platform - no to nationalised healthcare, low taxes, protect SS and Medicare. Lo and behold, they enjoyed some success.
The Occupy movement seems to just be mad at the businesses, but doesn't have any coherent means of changing it. They need to center around a few goals, such as no bailouts and higher taxes on businesses, and elect candidates based on this. THAT is how a movement really becomes a force, rather than a bunch of people in tents. If I wanted people in tents, I'd watch Deathly Hallows Part I.
To bring change, one must vote, and to vote, you must know what you're voting for.
Lacking any specific goals, on the other hand, makes it kind of hard to accomplish anything.
Let's say they all go to the polls.
"What do we want?!" "We don't know!" "When do we want it?!" "Now!"
Never mind the complete ridiculousness of protesting businesses, rather than government. The state has the real power, and you need to get the state to serve the people rather than interests. You don't do that by protesting the interests.
The Tea Party had a rather simple platform - no to nationalised healthcare, low taxes, protect SS and Medicare. Lo and behold, they enjoyed some success.
The Occupy movement seems to just be mad at the businesses, but doesn't have any coherent means of changing it. They need to center around a few goals, such as no bailouts and higher taxes on businesses, and elect candidates based on this. THAT is how a movement really becomes a force, rather than a bunch of people in tents. If I wanted people in tents, I'd watch Deathly Hallows Part I.
To bring change, one must vote, and to vote, you must know what you're voting for.
There aren't any elections for another year. What do you expect them to do in the meantime?
And yes, they should protest the government, but protest the interests too just to make it clear(er) what they're protesting and how many of them there are.
And yes, they should protest the government, but protest the interests too just to make it clear(er) what they're protesting and how many of them there are.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
This,
We can't sit around till 2012. It's time to get mad!!! Demand to see life's manager!! Make him TAKE BACK THE LEMONS!!
Tahuti
Writing Deity
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You hit the nail on the head: They are protesting against government and big business but as Taniciusfox pointed out, the OWS members don't have anything in common in what they advocate, but in common what they b**** about.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Why protest against the government? They're not going to do anything. Especially not till 2012 when election comes around.
Good thing the system isn't fundamentally broken and that this is one of the main problems at hand here.
Oh wait.
Tahuti
Writing Deity
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Politicians usually listen to demands if it affects their votes, but demands are exactly what OWS lacks. It is against "Wall street" but that has no more meaning than classical political buzzwords like "multiculturalism", "political correctness" or "neoliberalism".
Name just one demand all OWS members can agree on? A demand that defines OWS. If it doesn't have any demands nor is defined by a one, it was a failure before it even began.
Tani Coyote
Son of Huehuecoyotl
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They could certainly get politically active even without a formal election day. Sweep the primaries? Volunteer for candidates favorable to the cause?
Of course, to do that, you kind of need candidates you can get behind.
Right now, OWS can only get behind candidates that abolish this or that, and they're failing pretty hard at that already.
If you scare them with the threat of throwing them out on their butts, oh yes they will. The politicos aren't corporate overlords - you CAN throw them out. If the Tea Party could do it, why can't OWS?
Precisely. Negativity does nothing except cause destruction. You need some positive energy to accomplish anything. Because after you tear something down, you must rebuild something else on top of it.
This would be akin to completely abolishing welfare and not having some alternate safety net in place - it would be a disaster.
Or abolishing the income tax, continuing the same level of spending, and not providing an alternate source of income.
Here's the irony - critics of the Tea Party often said the GOP would have to stop being the "Party of No" upon going into power. But that's exactly what the Wall Street Occupation movement is - a giant mass of people saying no to a bunch of things, and not really having any "Yes" ideas.
Even so, they could still get some coherent political base going - vote for candidates who will abolish corporate subsidies and such. But there's no political organisation either. It's just a bunch of people waving signs.
They have so much potential, and are wasting it by not getting involved in the political process.
Tani Coyote
Son of Huehuecoyotl
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What is the money going towards?
I speculate towards serving the needs of the camps; I know a lot of donations have been made to the protestors.
If that's not what it's for, I can't imagine what then - it's not like they have a cohesive political agenda.
OWS seems to be akin to a physical Anonymous - there's not really much unifying them apart from a name. And I imagine the few who try to unify the group into something cohesive are drowned out.
Sad really, because it'd be simple to create a political campaign out of it.
Step 1. Get voting records
Step 2. Identify politicians who vote for tax cuts for the wealthy and decreased regulations on businesses, or voted for the bailouts
Step 3. Vote them out.
Of course, they have to field a candidate of their own, or will simply repeat the classic fallacy of voting for the other guy. Sounds to me like they need to flood the primaries.
Of course, this requires a LOT of time and patience, and most people don't have the political zeal for it. But as it sounds like most of the OWS movement is unemployed, I'm sure they could do it.
I speculate towards serving the needs of the camps; I know a lot of donations have been made to the protestors.
If that's not what it's for, I can't imagine what then - it's not like they have a cohesive political agenda.
OWS seems to be akin to a physical Anonymous - there's not really much unifying them apart from a name. And I imagine the few who try to unify the group into something cohesive are drowned out.
Sad really, because it'd be simple to create a political campaign out of it.
Step 1. Get voting records
Step 2. Identify politicians who vote for tax cuts for the wealthy and decreased regulations on businesses, or voted for the bailouts
Step 3. Vote them out.
Of course, they have to field a candidate of their own, or will simply repeat the classic fallacy of voting for the other guy. Sounds to me like they need to flood the primaries.
Of course, this requires a LOT of time and patience, and most people don't have the political zeal for it. But as it sounds like most of the OWS movement is unemployed, I'm sure they could do it.
