This is how schools in the USA function today.

[BvBPL]

I personally use elementary algebra on a regular basis and find it quite helpful. I occasionally use polynomial algebra, although I personally prefer to express those geometrically. Speaking of geometry, I think it's a lot more useful on a daily basis than algebra. So I, myself, wouldn't argue for the elimination of algebra.

Grammar is far from worthless, but instruction in language arts (grammar, composition, reading comprehension, vocabulary, and such) could be significantly improved.

 

[Zack]

Public education in the US varies wildly by location. I received a very good education in white suburbia, but if I went to the inner-city school 25 miles away it would have been a very different experience. It also depends on what classes you sign up for -- two students in the same grade at the same school could be learning significantly different math classes.

 

[Daw]

wat.

I'm sorry my joke failed so miserably. Nevermind.

 

[Mouthwash]

I don't know about this. I kind of see your point, but at the same time I've seen some writing that was absolutely illegible; and these were supposed to be official documents. One of my jobs as an intelligence collector was to proofread and correct the reports from my teammates, and I had one teammate who was a great collector, but couldn't write a report that made sense to save his life. So there is some value in teaching kids how to string together a proper sentence.

Have them read a bunch of documents or books to learn how it's done. That's the only way imho.

I certainly hope this isn't what your book said.

No, I'm paraphrasing. It actually had a map (although that map didn't include geographical features, GDP, or areas of arable land, making it much less useful than it could have been).

 

[sophie]

No, I'm paraphrasing. It actually had a map (although that map didn't include geographical features or arable land, making that much less useful than it could have been).

Not because it's incomplete. Rather because it's straight up wrong. Literally the opposite of correct.

 

[Mouthwash]

Not because it's incomplete. Rather because it's straight up wrong. Literally the opposite of correct.

Gah! I just looked at what I wrote and that was my mistake.

(Not that I don't know where China is populated. I just got east and west mixed up in my fevered, 36-hours awake brain.)

 

[Daw]

east and west mixed up

Owen, see? It all makes perfect sense: Middle East (and therefore the East) is to the left from China, and the West Coast (and therefore the West) is to the right. Totally adds up.

 

[jackelgull]

As someone's who's been in the school system for years, and is now a senior about to leave it, hopefully I can provide some perspective ( though I probably won't).

In my school, the system is designed to facilitate students through without regard to how well they learn. The only exceptions I can think of are AP classes, because the AP exams are conceptual based, and the school doesn't want to look bad so effort is put into making sure that our AP classes are top notch. AP classes are heavily focused on the conceptual. For my AP Physics class, for example, I don't think I've memorized an equation all year, a it is also the hardest class I have. The lower courses aren't designed to help you learn - they're designed to help you get good grades, without regard to how well you know the material. See, to the school, your learning doesn't actually matter. They just need you to graduate the school system, and go to college, so so they look like a good school system. You just another notch on the belt to the administration. The grades you get in lower levels don't really indicate anything other than effort. I think there's a certain level where to get lower, you'd have to be actively trying to fail.

Another downside is incompetent teachers. Even AP isn't immune to this, though it is more restricted to the English department. In AP Language and Composition this year,I have not learned a thing from my teacher. In Pre Calculus last year, I didn't learn a thing from my teacher. I self taught myself a lot of the concepts.

In the end though, the failures of the school system don't really hurt me all that much. It actually helps a bit. I'm one of the smart ones, so I over perform in comparison to my other classmates.

 

[cardgame]

I agree that grammar is worthless as hell; if you want to learn how to write, read. Sentences aren't a formula that you can plug in 'direct objects' and 'prepositions' and 'dangling modifiers' into. That stuff is absolute fluff.

If you don't already have an innate understanding of what the subject/verb necessary to make a sentence a sentence, rather than a fragment, you're simply illiterate. I didn't know any illiterate freshmen/sophomores (that's when we wasted our time on this, only I can't remember if it was 9th or 10th grade).

 

[Zack]

I honestly don't remember spending much time on grammar past middle school.

 

[BvBPL]

The grades you get in lower levels don't really indicate anything other than effort.

Your school does not sound pleasant; I hope wherever you end up next is more fulfilling.

Just wanted to point out that learning to excerpt yourself is probably much more important that most other lessons you'll learn in any classrooms.

Sentences aren't a formula into which you can plug 'direct objects' and 'prepositions' and 'dangling modifiers.'

Fixed that for you.

 

[sophie]

Knowing grammar may not help you write, but it absolutely helps you edit.

 

[cardgame]

Only stylistically, BvBPL, which I typically don't go in for on this forum.

 

[Mouthwash]

Fixed that for you.

I wouldn't have made that mistake and I have no idea what those things he referenced are.

 

[BvBPL]

Only stylistically, BvBPL, which I typically don't go in for on this forum.

The question of ending a sentence with a preposition phrase is the gold standard in grammar pedantry. Seven times out of ten, it doesn't make a difference to close a sentence with a preposition. Two times out of ten, restructuring the sentence such that it does not end in a preposition is unnecessarily akward. It is uncommon to have a sentence that is substantially improved by rewording such that it does not in a preposition (although you may still wish to avoid it in formal writing). That having been said, being attentive to rules like that help one's writing by making one more mindful of sentence construction.

The dangling modifier is a different case. Dangling modifiers are always unwelcome.

Take the following:

The child burned herself on a hot bowl of soup.

Did she burn herself with the hot soup or the hot bowl which contained the soup? The modifier could apply to either. The reader cannot tell.

As to your substantive point, the formula model of the sentence is a perfectly valid one.

 

[Lord of Elves]

People understand what they say and hear and people understand what they read and write. Grammar should bend to what people are trying to express, not the other way around.

 

[BvBPL]

In the soup bowl example, the reader can't understand it. Had the dangling modifier been avoided that would not have been an issue. Grammar is the set of rules that assures understanding.

 

[civvver]

Given the run-on sentence and the bad tense agreement, maybe you should have taken some grammar classes.

I don't proof read my internet posts, I'm not that anal retentive. You're lucky I used punctuation and capitalization at all.

 

[Lillefix]

If you want to learn a foreign language as an adult it is extremely important to know your own language first. On the other hand, foreign languages don't seem to be much of an issue here.

 

[Zack]

People understand what they say and hear and people understand what they read and write. Grammar should bend to what people are trying to express, not the other way around.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

They don't think it be like it is, but it do.