This is why capitalism sucks

[Erik Mesoy]

Raw capitalism is just as harmful as raw communism. Child labor and slavery are its fruits. The moment you start demanding ethics of capitalism, you're heading towards socialism and a nonfree market, which are good things in this context.

 

[Stile]

Is it not the drive of making a profit that led to discovering this colon cancer drug in the first place?

 

[classical_hero]

@CD. I'll take what you mean.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Is it not the drive of making a profit that led to discovering this colon cancer drug in the first place?

I would have thought that the drive to cure colon cancer was stronger.

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Democratic Socialism is working very well in some European countries....

Yeah the 10+% unemployment and 1-2% growth rate is the sign of a strong economy.

 

[Urederra]

Yeah. Greed never occurs in socialism.

And in socialism even more drugs are discovered/designed than in capitalism.

Raw capitalism is just as harmful as raw communism. Child labor and slavery are its fruits. The moment you start demanding ethics of capitalism, you're heading towards socialism and a nonfree market, which are good things in this context.

How capitalism leads to slavery in the modern world? Care to elaborate?

OTOH, in communism, everybody works in what "the party" wants them to work. Everybody is a slave in Communism.

E.g. the Cuban "labor sundays" where everybody has to go to work in the sugar cane fields "for the poors"

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

the competitive drive created by the capitalist system is what pushes us forward more and more every day. It is the reason we were able to beat out the Soviets in the Cold War; in a communist system there is no drive to work hard, because there is no personal gain, and let's face it, the vast majority of people are not selfless workers.

This kind of this (the Original Topic) is an unfortunate side-effect of the system, but it is probably the best and most feasable system around right now.
Personally, I like Lenin's NEP, with a few changes, of course.

EDIT: It's not like the poorer people won't ever get acess to this drug, it'll just take longer

 

[Stile]

I would have thought that the drive to cure colon cancer was stronger.

The drive is stronger. That's what creates the demand. If you want to know a man's heart find out where he spends his money.

 

[newfangle]

Correction: This is why government-enforced patents suck.

 

[Sidhe]

the competitive drive created by the capitalist system is what pushes us forward more and more every day. It is the reason we were able to beat out the Soviets in the Cold War; in a communist system there is no drive to work hard, because there is no personal gain, and let's face it, the vast majority of people are not selfless workers.

This kind of this (the Original Topic) is an unfortunate side-effect of the system, but it is probably the best and most feasable system around right now.
Personally, I like Lenin's NEP, with a few changes, of course.

EDIT: It's not like the poorer people won't ever get acess to this drug, it'll just take longer

Yes but people in developing countries wont get access to it ever and the alternative will no doubt vanish into thin air, unless they sell a cheaper version they are the moral equivalent of a turd basically. sacrificing the sight of millions for a buck or two. I thought only banks were this mercainary but it seems some companies are just as bad.

 

[skadistic]

Meleager: democratic socialism?

Classical Hero: I thought that Microsoft was owned more or less by bill Gates alone? Or am I gravely mistaken?

I own Microsoft....or atleast a handful of shares like tens of thousands of other people.

 

[zulu9812]

The problem I have with the conclusion that the thread starter had. This is not why Capitalism fails because this is why human nature fails. People who are driven by the love of money is the problem here, not the system.

The system relies on people being driven by the love of money.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

And in socialism even more drugs are discovered/designed than in capitalism.

Two words for you: Open Source.
Millions of people, working hard, driven by a noncapitalistic system, and most OS projects are benevolent despotisms to boot.
Pure socialism is poison too, just like communism and capitalism.

How capitalism leads to slavery in the modern world? Care to elaborate?

It doesn't lead to slavery in the modern world, precisely because the modern world is to a great degree embracing socialism and nonfree markets.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Yeah the 10+% unemployment and 1-2% growth rate is the sign of a strong economy.

Which country is that?

You can't just randomly post a figure without saying whom it is for!

The drive is stronger. That's what creates the demand. If you want to know a man's heart find out where he spends his money.

Generally the drive to live is stronger than the drive to own a BMW.

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Which country is that?

You can't just randomly post a figure without saying whom it is for!

All statistics from the CIA World Factbook.

RGDP Growth Rate (%)
Germany 0.90 2005 est.
Netherlands 1.10 2005 est.
France 1.40 2005 est.
European Union 1.70 2005 est.
Switzerland 1.80 2005 est.
United Kingdom 1.80 2005 est.
Austria 1.90 2005 est.

For comparison:
United States 3.50 2005 est.

Unemployment Rate (%)
Germany 11.60 2005 est.
France 10.00 2005 est.
Spain 10.10 2005 est.
European Union 9.40 2005 est.

For comparison:
United States 5.10 2005 est.

 

[ComradeDavo]

There's more to life than growth rates and unemployment rates.

I mean lets look at life expectancy...which is rather releavant to a thread about healthcare and capitalism....

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

1 Andorra 83.51 2006 est.
2 Macau 82.19 2006 est.
3 San Marino 81.71 2006 est.
4 Singapore 81.71 2006 est.
5 Hong Kong 81.59 2006 est.
6 Japan 81.25 2006 est.
7 Sweden 80.51 2006 est.
8 Switzerland 80.51 2006 est.
9 Australia 80.50 2006 est.
10 Guernsey 80.42 2006 est.
11 Iceland 80.31 2006 est.
12 Canada 80.22 2006 est.
13 Cayman Islands 80.07 2006 est.
14 Italy 79.81 2006 est.
15 Gibraltar 79.80 2006 est.
16 France 79.73 2006 est.
17 Monaco 79.69 2006 est.
18 Liechtenstein 79.68 2006 est.
19 Spain 79.65 2006 est.
20 Norway 79.54 2006 est.
21 Israel 79.46 2006 est.
22 Jersey 79.38 2006 est.
23 Faroe Islands 79.35 2006 est.
24 Aruba 79.28 2006 est.
25 Greece 79.24 2006 est.
26 Martinique 79.18 2006 est.
27 Austria 79.07 2006 est.
28 Virgin Islands 79.05 2006 est.
29 Malta 79.01 2006 est.
30 Netherlands 78.96 2006 est.
31 Luxembourg 78.89 2006 est.
32 Montserrat 78.85 2006 est.
33 New Zealand 78.81 2006 est.
34 Germany 78.80 2006 est.
35 Belgium 78.77 2006 est.
36 Saint Pierre and Miquelon 78.61 2006 est.
37 Guam 78.58 2006 est.
38 United Kingdom 78.54 2006 est.
39 Finland 78.50 2006 est.
40 Isle of Man 78.49 2006 est.
41 Jordan 78.40 2006 est.
42 Puerto Rico 78.40 2006 est.
43 European Union 78.30 2006 est.
44 Guadeloupe 78.06 2006 est.
45 Bosnia and Herzegovina 78.00 2006 est.
46 Bermuda 77.96 2006 est.
47 Saint Helena 77.93 2006 est.
48 United States 77.85 2006 est.
49 Cyprus 77.82 2006 est.
50 Denmark 77.79 2006 est

Thats the US all the way down there at 48, below those countries you just used in comparison.

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

There's more to life than growth rates and unemployment rates.

I mean lets look at life expectancy...which is rather releavant to a thread about healthcare and capitalism....

It couldn't have anything to do with the fact that 60% of the populous is overwieght and 33% are obese by their own choice. This drives down the average life expectancy rate of the country due to increased risk of heart disease.

By having the government slowly control more and more areas of the economy you slowly move more towards the Socialism in the Soviet Union. Over time the bueracracy just becomes way too large to efficiently handle anything, especially if the economy of the nation grows too weak to support it.

 

[ComradeDavo]

It couldn't have anything to do with the fact that 60% of the populous is overwieght and 33% are obese by their own choice. This drives down the average life expectancy rate of the country due to increased risk of heart disease.

By having the government slowly control more and more areas of the economy you slowly move more towards the Socialism in the Soviet Union. Over time the bueracracy just becomes way too large to efficiently handle anything, especially if the economy of the nation grows too weak to support it.

Your first point - many blame the problem of obesity directly on capitalism, due to the advertising power that food companies can have, especially their power to influence children's eating habits.

Your second point is the same old 'the soviet union was bad thus all socialism is' rhetoric that is constantly regurgitated by hardcore capitalists in the face of criticism. I do not adovocate 'socialism vs capitalism', I am for mixed economies and sensiable regulations. I don't care much for 'government control of ecomonomy = endless bureaucracy' arguments.

 

[CurtSibling]

The problem I have with the conclusion that the thread starter had. This is not why Capitalism fails because this is why human nature fails. People who are driven by the love of money is the problem here, not the system.

Common sense makes strange bedfellows.

I agree with classical here.

.

 

[Sidhe]

The problem I have with the conclusion that the thread starter had. This is not why Capitalism fails because this is why human nature fails. People who are driven by the love of money is the problem here, not the system.

I'd like to add that It's a feedback loop the system is created based on human nature, this feeds the need to make money and the implication that it is good slowly arises by feeding back into the common concensus about capatalism,and inexorably without control the system starts to become corrupt, someone does something like this, at this point the loop should be halted, no good can come of letting capatalism have such a free reign, even if it is in the bounds of the law.

The love of money is the root of all evil, now this is truer today than it was when those words were first spoken, almost prescient