Those damn brutal Americans! (pics)

[sysyphus]

I think there is some good to come out of these pictures. Whilst I have no respect for Bush et al and their approach to world affairs, one must give respect for the American, British and Australian soldiers and the professionalism in which the majority of them are conducting themselves.

Unfortunately, soldiers are too much viewed as their leaders' henchmen, thugging national interests, but there's much more to the story.

Soldiers have no official position on the war, they were given their orders to go and thus they go whether they support the war or not. They're on the ground and connected to the people affected by the operation, unlike their bureaucratic cronies on the other side of the planet.

So I'll take these pictures for what they should be: good people doing what they can to make the best of a bad situation. I don't see these as pro war pictures as much as pro soldier pictures.

 

[FredLC]

Speedo, you are making a distortion here. The problem is not the nature of the news, but their relevance. Or are you arguing that a soldier holding a baby is a factor as informative, and thus relevant to the news, as a bomb killing a X number of soldiers?

I assure you that some great news, like capturing Saddan alive, the end of all resistence groups, and things of that sort, would all make headlines over any bombing that could eventually happen in the same day.

However, pics of soldiers playing American Football in Iraq soil is nothing but a strawman to distract the audience from the severity of the security problems that are still being faced there.

Yes, there are many good people wearing USA uniforms there... but unfortunately, the foes are more likely to spot their machine guns than their caring smiles.

Regards .

 

[Neomega]

Originally posted by Speedo

Well, I guess the media agrees with you. Bad news always gets the spotlight, good news just isn't exciting enough

What good is a new bridge if it is going to be destroyed in 10 years? Without security, the good works are worthless.

 

[cgannon64]

Good that you have a picture of the soldiers trying to teach some of them good old AMERICAN football!

Cultural Imperialist Pigs!

 

[Speedo]

However, pics of soldiers playing American Football in Iraq soil is nothing but a strawman to distract the audience from the severity of the security problems that are still being faced there.

If the news were saturated with such pics, I would agree with you. However, I fail to see how showing the occaisional pic of a medic bandaging some old guys foot is a "strawman" trying to hide everything else. Again, why do we have to hear ENTIRELY bad news? I think most of the the people in the world (outside of the Bush administration, perhaps) know that Iraq is overwhelmed with problems. Showing a few positive things isn't going to make them declare "mission accomplished!" and magically forget about the death toll, bombings, and etc.

 

[Neomega]

Originally posted by Speedo
Showing a few positive things isn't going to make them declare "mission accomplished!" and magically forget about the death toll, bombings, and etc.

Do you have any idea how misguided this statement is? Look at American support for Bush's post war plans when he hung that banner over the bridge of the Lincoln. I think that is exactly what happened. People saw the "mission accomplished banner, a stirring speech by our president, and a flight demonstration, and viola. "Mission Accomplished" easy as the first one.

 

[FredLC]

Originally posted by Speedo


If the news were saturated with such pics, I would agree with you. However, I fail to see how showing the occasional pic of a medic bandaging some old guys foot is a "straw man" trying to hide everything else. Again, why do we have to hear ENTIRELY bad news? I think most of the people in the world (outside of the Bush administration, perhaps) know that Iraq is overwhelmed with problems. Showing a few positive things isn't going to make them declare "mission accomplished!" and magically forget about the death toll, bombings, and etc.

Take my entire post in consideration. The problem is not the nature of the news, it’s about the relevance of the news.

As I said, relevant good news would get space on the media. But none relevant good news is happening. So yes, when you have a paper that has as the main headlines that there were 9 military deaths in an explosion, that there was another week without power and/or water, and the assassination of local supporters, "but in the other hand a nice American army doctor have made some stitches in the feet of some unknown Iraqi", you are indeed incurring in straw man, because you are trying to counter relevant things with irrelevant things.

Even in local news being given in peace time, you don't get New York Times editorial about raise in unemployment being countered by "on the other hand, a nice stock investor have helped an old lady to safely cross the 5th avenue".

It do not work when you look at it impartially. Not in peace time, not in war time.

Straw man, sorry to say.

Regards .

 

[Kentonio]

So your argument is that the allies helping the Iraqi people restore the instrastructure of Iraq and help them deal with the problems of day to day life is irrelevant? The fact that despite the impression given by all the bombings the whole population of Iraq doesnt hate us, that must be irrelevant too. The media is portraying a picture of Iraq as a total hellhole where the population hate the US and UK and nothing good ever happens.

These pictures and many others like them show the lie that is being portrayed by the media, and before people start whining, the media IS portraying a lie. It is portraying a lie because nice things dont sell newspapers. It is simply doing the normal media thing of reporting the facts but in such a way as to create an impression which is distorted or even fabricated.

About the only news stories you hear about from Iraq at present concern the deaths of US soldiers, please tell me where are the big stories about the advances made by the provisional government, the improvements to infrastructure, the drop in crime in concern to regular Iraqi citizens?

Oh no, silly me thats irrelevant.

 

[Cactus_Jack]

Moderator Action: When you can manage to post in this thread without mentioning the Nazis, you may post here again. Eyrei
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Al Zan]

this is propaganda !

 

[Kentonio]

Cactus Jack, you have finally confirmed what many of us have believed for several days now, you are an annoying child whos arguments generally revolve around 'America bad, America like Nazis'. Of course the damn nazi's used propoganda, and of course this is propoganda! All media is propoganda for gods sake! That doesnt however automatically make it any less true or authentic, as the pictures above show.

If you are (as you seem to be) suggesting that America falsely created these pictures to hide atrocities, then you are indeed a mindless infant and I will gladly make you the first person ever on my ignore list.

 

[Cactus_Jack]

Originally posted by Kentonio
Cactus Jack, you have finally confirmed what many of us have believed for several days now, you are an annoying child whos arguments generally revolve around 'America bad, America like Nazis'. Of course the damn nazi's used propoganda, and of course this is propoganda! All media is propoganda for gods sake! That doesnt however automatically make it any less true or authentic, as the pictures above show.

If you are (as you seem to be) suggesting that America falsely created these pictures to hide atrocities, then you are indeed a mindless infant and I will gladly make you the first person ever on my ignore list.

Good go and do it then. America is a free country, but it doesnt own up to its own crimes. Really if America really was trying to help the Iraqis why did they drop cluster bombs in civilian areas? Why did they use depleted uranium warheads? Why did they refuse to back the Iraqi resistance in 91. In fact the USA gave Saddam promission to supress it. Perhaps 300.000 Iraqis are in mass graves becuase of that action.

All the replys to my objections to clams that America is trying to help Iraqis, is just replyed to by. "Your a idiot" "You wrong." "You lying". Please can you offer some arguments instead? Everything i calm that the US has done has happend. If i provde online proof i get insult for it. If i dont you lot say wheres the proof?

 

[Kentonio]

Go right ahead, I am very much looking forward to seeing you prove that the US gave Saddam 'permission' to suppress the rebellions.

 

[eyrei]

Moderator Action: The Nazis have even less to do with this thread topic than anyones' ability to write an argument. Keep on topic please.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Cactus_Jack]

Originally posted by eyrei
Moderator Action: The Nazis have even less to do with this thread topic than anyones' ability to write an argument. Keep on topic please.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Cactus_Jack



am i allowed to use the word facist instead?

Moderator Action: Certainly not in this thread, and it should be used sparingly anywhere else. Most of the time people use it to troll rather than to make a rational argument. At any rate, if you wish to ask questions like this in the future, use the PM function.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Cactus_Jack]

Ok lets me repost my veiws in a more acceptable manner. The pictures are propoganda. Its a technique very cynically done by other goverments in the past. I would have to acept a revisionist history to take serously the fact the USA helps other nations. Its track record in other countrys is poor. Why was cluster bombs dropped in civilian area? Why was depleted uranium war heads use? Why did Bush SR give Saddam promission to surpress the Iraqi resistance in 1991. Leading to perhaps mass graves of 300.000. Was the US scared of real democracy?

 

[Kentonio]

Im still waiting to see your proof about America giving Saddam permission to suppress the rebellions.

 

[cameramano]

What strikes me about these pictures are the children. I went down to Mexico on a mission trip to build houses. Many of the adults are wary of our motivation... the couldn't understand why rich white folks would travel to build houses in their neighborhood. What got the missions there rolling was the children. We, and others, would play with them while we were working. (Sometimes we'd even need to designate a couple people to play with the kids so the rest of us could get some physical work done!) Anyway... the kids would tell the parents, and the parents would come check out the church.

In the same way, the children of Iraq may be a way into the hearts of Iraqis. The parents may regard our troops with suspicion (sic) but the kids don't. When the soldiers have a chance to put down their guns and play football, it will reveal who they really are... mostly kids 18, 19, and 20 from the heart of the Bible belt, who just want to do some good. Through the children come the parents... maybe who need a favor, or to find out who their kids are playing with.

 

[Cactus_Jack]

Originally posted by Kentonio
Im still waiting to see your proof about America giving Saddam permission to suppress the rebellions.

What happens when i provide a link? I get called a idiot thats what. Its a well know unreported fact if you want me to find stuff about it i will. Feel free to disagree with what i provide, but dont call me a idiot for linking it ok?