TIL: Today I Learned

Status
Not open for further replies.
What makes US slaveholders unique in history is that they lived in a society the explicit premise of which was "all men are created equal." The idea of basic human equality was what never occurred to the ancients.

Meh. As far back as humans go there were tribes that were explicitly living under communal equality...and held captives from rival tribes as slaves. "All men are created equal" was always rooted in a very limited sample of "all."
 
  • Like
Reactions: rah
Meh. As far back as humans go there were tribes that were explicitly living under communal equality...and held captives from rival tribes as slaves. "All men are created equal" was always rooted in a very limited sample of "all."

"explicit communal equality" has never really been a thing...and in fact we have no idea whether or for how long people have "held captives from rival tribes as slaves", as by the nature of things there is no evidence of this at all. There are in fact examples from ethnography of tribes without any form of slavery at all (e.g. in the Pacific Northwest of this continent), who integrated captives into their own tribe...and there have been examples ranging down the spectrum from relatively mild forms of bondage to brutal institutions resembling the more familiar form of chattel slavery.

Anyway, as Dachs has already made the argument here and no one has rebutted it or even come close I got nothing else to say.
 
Hunter gather bands tend to have very high levels of equality among all able bodied adult members, but they tend to treat young children and infirm elders terribly. Slavery is not really a thing until the society has developed ways to use excess unfree labor, which generally means agriculture. Societies that are partially hunter gatherer and partially agricultural (like many Native American groups) tended to take prisoners of war as slaves but raise the children of slaves as equal members of the community, and usually allowed those slaves who have proven themselves most useful to become full members of the tribe as well.
 
The Aztecs were bloodthirsty maniacs who genuinely believed that if they didn't take the heart out of their hapless victims while still alive and then peel off their skin and wear it as a garment the Sun wouldn't come up tomorrow
In fairness, if they genuinely believe the whole sun-skin thing, it would be unfair to call them "maniacs" for following through. What, you don't want the sun to come up tomorrow?
 
Last edited:
In fairness, if they genuinely believe the whole sun-skin thing, it would be unfair to call them "maniacs" for following through. What, you don't want the sun to come up tomorrow.
If Charles C. Mann is to be believed, the victims chosen for human sacrifice were usually condemned criminals. As a proportion of their total populations, almost every state in Europe around that time conducted more public executions (of criminals including heretics and in protestant countries also suspected witches) than the Aztecs did. It sounds like the Europeans were the real bloodthirsty maniacs.
 
The theoretical grounds of a practice matter. Basing execution on even the pretense of a fair trial is better than basing it on, you know.
 
The theoretical grounds of a practice matter. Basing execution on even the pretense of a fair trial is better than basing it on, you know.
A spurious legal ritual doesn't offer any self-evidently greater comfort to the victim than a spurious religious ritual.
 
The theoretical grounds of a practice matter. Basing execution on even the pretense of a fair trial is better than basing it on, you know.

Wait, but this would be an embrace of rationality (fair trial) over tradition (religious ritual)
 
A spurious legal ritual doesn't offer any self-evidently greater comfort to the victim than a spurious religious ritual.

Not to the victims, but it creates the potential for reform.
 
Reforming the legal system to remove capital punishment, you mean? The souls of the legally departed are already reforming in The Other Place.
 
Would murdering Christians get them to heaven sooner?
 
Reforming the legal system to remove capital punishment, you mean? The souls of the legally departed are already reforming in The Other Place.

To be more just overall, yes. A system based on a claim of justice is much more capable of actually becoming decent than a system where war captives and slaves are perfectly acceptable offerings to appease the gods.
 
To be more just overall, yes. A system based on a claim of justice is much more capable of actually becoming decent than a system where war captives and slaves are perfectly acceptable offerings to appease the gods.

At least with war captives and slaves you really know what you are offering. In the good old days when it took a sacrificial virgin to appease the gods you would always be left wondering whether you had missed the mark.
 
For some reason all i can think of is Grandpa Simpson yelling "Let's Sacrifice them to our God! Come on, we did it all the time in the thirties."
homerlovesflanders10.png
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom