TIL: Today I Learned

[cardgame]

How do you even get it off the screen in the first place?

Magic (I've done it before as well)

I thought the same thing. Then I discovered amphetamines and said "if I don't sleep at all then all I have to do is make it to forty and I'm money ahead." Now I'm past forty and fifty and I'm pretty sure I've still wasted far less of my life on sleep than would be considered normal. Sirsasana vastly reduces the need for sleep.

Man, vector math is amazing. By going inverted you completely neutralize standard version, and need less horizontal recuperation.

 

[Bootstoots]

TIL auto lending to people who just filed for bankruptcy is apparently A Thing. I'm wondering if anyone knows anything more about WTH is going on here.

First, some backstory. I learned I have bipolar disorder, not just the depression I've long been aware of, the hard way last year. I went through a couple of manic episodes - or maybe just one continuous one - starting in January and ending in October 2017. During this time, I got six different credit cards and maxed them all out, spending 30k+ on a whole bunch of frivolous stuff but mostly science equipment, chemicals, and assorted gear you'd expect of your friendly neighborhood mad scientist. You know, the kind who gets visited by the FBI, told to get rid of all the flammable/toxic/otherwise hazardous chemicals by the city fire marshal, and complies only to build the stash back up again a month later. The kind who has to write a letter to the NRC apologizing for accidentally throwing away a little bit of polonium. The kind who knows he can't smell cyanide - a recessive trait. That kind.

(I grimace, looking back on it, but there is a little bit of satisfaction that my manic debt-fueled spending spree was the coolest one I've heard of. Most maniacs just buy cars, electronics, clothing, etc.; or go on expensive vacations; or blow it on gambling, drugs, or hookers. Lame.)

Flash forward to now. I finally got around to filing for bankruptcy last week. Met with my lawyer on Wednesday, filed on Friday. It seems likely this will go well.

So I filed on Friday. On Monday, I got an advertisement for an auto loan that made a reference to my bankruptcy filing. I thought that was weird - I wouldn't have thought anyone but payday loan shops would want to lend to me now, much less that would-be auto lenders are watching bankruptcy filings like hawks so they can beat the competition at lending to deadbeats. And they would have had to be watching closely - it was mailed within hours of my filing. Today I opened up my mailbox to find two more auto ads, both also referencing the bankruptcy, from dealerships that claimed to be partnered with local banks offering bad credit loans.

What's going on here? Are lenders really that desperate to find subprime borrowers? Is there something appealing to dealerships about ultra-low-credit buyers?

 

[Takhisis]

I don't know about how Illinois law and U.S. federal law interact in your particular bankruptcy filing, but: If you're already filing for bankruptcy then stay clear of whatever loans those people are trying to rope you into.
They are probably the kind of people who tap officials at banks and/or state dependencies for information on vulnerable people to prey on.

 

[Bootstoots]

Oh yeah, there's no risk of me falling for whatever scam is going on. It's just that I can't fathom what their scheme even is. I'm also wondering what this says, if anything, about US subprime credit more generally.

It's not like they're selling them on to be sliced and diced and sold into auto-backed securities, which are then rated AAA and sold to overleveraged investors, right? It can't be that.

 

[Takhisis]

Financial near-fraud in this day and age? Totally not, must be something else.

 

[Zkribbler]

Oh yeah, there's no risk of me falling for whatever scam is going on. It's just that I can't fathom what their scheme even is.

IIRC, you can only declare bankruptcy every 6 years. Thus they know you cannot escape again.

 

[FriendlyFire]

TIL auto lending to people who just filed for bankruptcy is apparently A Thing. I'm wondering if anyone knows anything more about WTH is going on here.
What's going on here? Are lenders really that desperate to find subprime borrowers? Is there something appealing to dealerships about ultra-low-credit buyers?

Sub prime car loans are unregulated, and estimated some 1 Mil+ cars with subprime loans on them
This was made possible with the near 0% interest rates, low gas prices and car dealers that were prepared to turn a blind eye in order to move cars, much of the risk is being taken not by the car dealers but by the car makers Banks. Over the eight years this subprime loan market has been building and reaching saturation point. These also allowed for car manufacturers to pad there books and boost stock value. Car manufactoring profits by US autos have become exceptionally small compared with what they once were.

Warning were already being put out that this massive debt bubble was about to blow since last year.

Oh yeah, there's no risk of me falling for whatever scam is going on. It's just that I can't fathom what their scheme even is. I'm also wondering what this says, if anything, about US subprime credit more generally. It's not like they're selling them on to be sliced and diced and sold into auto-backed securities, which are then rated AAA and sold to overleveraged investors, right? It can't be that.

Thats kinda dumb though since Car values almost always decline
It wouldnt surprise me if this practice started again under Trump since the reversing of regulations, the expect returns on car loans could be repacked and sold on. Though who would be stupid enough to trust the Americans again ?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Apparently the reason car ads keep slipping through Google's ad preferences on the YouTube app is because third-parties unscrupulously misclassify their ads. I wonder if I should be reporting this to Google.

I haven't seen ads on YouTube in years. There's a way to block those.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

What's going on here? Are lenders really that desperate to find subprime borrowers? Is there something appealing to dealerships about ultra-low-credit buyers?

In many environments a car is a necessity, not a luxury. Take a person who is cut off from traditional ways to buy a car and recognizes that they have to buy a car and you have someone set up to pay whatever you ask, even if it is way more than the car is worth.

 

[FriendlyFire]

 

[Cutlass]

Oh yeah, there's no risk of me falling for whatever scam is going on. It's just that I can't fathom what their scheme even is. I'm also wondering what this says, if anything, about US subprime credit more generally.

It's not like they're selling them on to be sliced and diced and sold into auto-backed securities, which are then rated AAA and sold to overleveraged investors, right? It can't be that.

The loan originators sell the loan to loan packagers which make them into bonds. Once that happens, the loan originator is out of it. They took their slice off the top as a commission. If the loan goes bad, they don't even ever find out about it. It's not their problem. So they have no incentive to find out if the loan is good, and even a serious incentive to not care if it is good or not. They've already been paid, regardless of whether the borrower defaults.

 

[rah]

IIRC, you can only declare bankruptcy every 6 years. Thus they know you cannot escape again.

Ding Ding Ding Ding.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The loan originators sell the loan to loan packagers which make them into bonds. Once that happens, the loan originator is out of it. They took their slice off the top as a commission. If the loan goes bad, they don't even ever find out about it. It's not their problem. So they have no incentive to find out if the loan is good, and even a serious incentive to not care if it is good or not. They've already been paid, regardless of whether the borrower defaults.

Not in my experience. Our hard money car loan lender is a local company. Part of the terms of getting them to make the loan is providing them with a key so they minimize damage when they have to repo. Their relationship with the dealers they work with is totally symbiotic. They sell the cars they repo right back to their associated dealers so they can sell them again. It is true that the dealership makes their money on the sale and doesn't really care if the buyer defaults or not, but that's always true.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Wait, there are ad preferences in the YouTube app? I just keep getting adverts for online bingo sites I'll never use and thinking "so it goes".

It's handled through the Google AdSettings page. Though ads on the YT app can be rejected by pressing the circled "i" button visible when they are paused.

I haven't seen ads on YouTube in years. There's a way to block those.

Not on the app, to my knowledge. And I don't mind sending some ad revenue for the channels I like. And seeing good interesting ads, like the ones by Paradox Interactive.

 

[Cutlass]

Not in my experience. Our hard money car loan lender is a local company. Part of the terms of getting them to make the loan is providing them with a key so they minimize damage when they have to repo. Their relationship with the dealers they work with is totally symbiotic. They sell the cars they repo right back to their associated dealers so they can sell them again. It is true that the dealership makes their money on the sale and doesn't really care if the buyer defaults or not, but that's always true.

That's the "pay here" used car sellers that were talked about for a portion of John Oliver's segment that FF linked. The actual banks are working differently.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

That's the "pay here" used car sellers that were talked about for a portion of John Oliver's segment that FF linked. The actual banks are working differently.

We have those too, but we also have a hard money lender locally that allows dealers to finance through them. They actually expanded out of a buy here pay here lot a couple decades ago. Last I heard they have several million dollars on the street. At least around here the "actual banks" don't really compete with them.

 

[FriendlyFire]

We have those too, but we also have a hard money lender locally that allows dealers to finance through them. They actually expanded out of a buy here pay here lot a couple decades ago. Last I heard they have several million dollars on the street. At least around here the "actual banks" don't really compete with them.

If its any comfort the unregulated Chinese lending practices are even worse
Nobody actually knows how much debt the Chinese have in Sub prime loans, and Shadow loans (literally shell companies) that exist to make high risk loans.
The thing is I suspect that too many people are making money from this, and while the economy was growing the government was prepared to turn a blind eye.

What I think is going to happen is this bubble is going to burst, and market is going to force a correction like it did in 2008. The Democrats will step in and pass regulations on sub prime car loan industry and try to clean up the mess.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If its any comfort the unregulated Chinese lending practices are even worse
Nobody actually knows how much debt the Chinese have in Sub prime loans, and Shadow loans (literally shell companies) that exist to make high risk loans.
The thing is I suspect that too many people are making money from this, and while the economy was growing the government was prepared to turn a blind eye.

What I think is going to happen is this bubble is going to burst, and market is going to force a correction like it did in 2008. The Democrats will step in and pass regulations on sub prime car loan industry and try to clean up the mess.

If there are major banks involved that's possible, but the hard money car loan business is more or less a necessity. People who can't get cars any other way still need cars.

 

[FriendlyFire]

If there are major banks involved that's possible, but the hard money car loan business is more or less a necessity. People who can't get cars any other way still need cars.

A few common sense regulations regarding car loans, simple things like showing total loan repayments, total interest paid and provide warnings regarding what will happen if you fall behind on repayment
Honestly Americans should try to relearn the art of saving.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

A few common sense regulations regarding car loans, simple things like showing total loan repayments, total interest paid and provide warnings regarding what will happen if you fall behind on repayment
Honestly Americans should try to relearn the art of saving.

That's all included in every auto loan finance contract. Has been for decades.