Time to Ban Owning Pit Bulls?

[Broken_Erika]

Ban Humans, that'll solve the problem once and for all!

 

[Nexlev]

I don't see an issue severe enough to warrant banning a breed.

 

[Berzerker]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/1...nia-woman-22-during-mauling-sheriff-says.html

well, thats what happens when you dont feed the dogs...they eat you just like Ramsey Bolton

 

[Berzerker]

No, maybe people not having any concern for the welfare of animals that trust people to care for them is the problem...but no surprise that you are so deep into entrenchment in your position that you failed to see the point.

Sorry, missed this one. I dont care why these dogs attack and eat people, they do and thats all that matters to me. I dont want my neighbor owning a lion or some other critter that'll be paying my family a visit if they miss a couple meals. We have a responsibility to those around us. These dogs dont need to be hungry to kill people and their pets. That is my concern.

 

[Synobun]

Sorry, missed this one. I dont care why these dogs attack and eat people, they do and thats all that matters to me. I dont want my neighbor owning a lion or some other critter that'll be paying my family a visit if they miss a couple meals. We have a responsibility to those around us. These dogs dont need to be hungry to kill people and their pets. That is my concern.

This is a bad concern. Can you prove that pit bulls are dangerous as a baseline?

You've freely provided evidence in this thread that a powerful range of dog breeds is dangerous when mistreated or put into extraordinary circumstances. That would seem to disprove your argument that these breeds are dangerous by virtue of being what they are. That you are comparing them to non-domesticated predators is wholly nonsensical and demonstrates how little awareness you possess over these dogs. You're just afraid, and you're letting that fear dictate your voice on the matter.

I live next to a rescued pit bull that was raised in a fighting racket. He can't be around people because his default is to attack. Here's the difference between you and I: you see the problem in this equation as being "pit bull". I see the problem in this equation as being "raised in a fighting racket". Pit bulls are just fine if they are raised properly, and their behaviour isn't all that different from other breed ranges if they've been mistreated. Every animal will become aggressive if they are raised that way, and everyone, including you, will become hostile if you're starved. A chihuahua will be just as vicious in the same circumstances.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Much of the problem is in their name and reputation. A lot of people get pit bulls specifically because they want attack dogs or something vicious that will maul anyone who trespasses on their property.

 

[Hrothbern]

I don't see an issue severe enough to warrant banning a breed.

First of all: I love dogs, like I love many other animals.... I had many during my life.

Dogs were breeded for some characteristics during a long time of our civilisations
With today's knowledge it will be pretty simple to breed out some dangerous characteristics of some of the really dangerous dogs.
A pitbull has some really sweet characteristics
but also some bad. That can be rectified.

But even then.
Some dogs are just so big, and from an original fighting line (whether wolves, or other predators, or guardian dogs), that they stay a clear risk.... but a risk that can be mitigated by mainly two precautions:

• They need a proper social raising: A. from birth to the moment they leave their family (under pressure because people making money with puppies often are not "good". B. this social development has to be continued by the new owner until adulthood of the dog.
• Owners need for more dangerous dogs a kind of driving license. You really need to understand a dogs mind to some degree to understand.... to avoid frustrating the social psychology of a dog, to avoid making that dog a sudden risk.

And BTW
I and my small red Spitz, have a good relationship with all the many dogs in a big circle around my house (suburbs residential), including some pitbulls, some well trained and socialised..... some not.....
I made sure of that.... just as precaution.

 

[Patine]

Sorry, missed this one. I dont care why these dogs attack and eat people, they do and thats all that matters to me. I dont want my neighbor owning a lion or some other critter that'll be paying my family a visit if they miss a couple meals. We have a responsibility to those around us. These dogs dont need to be hungry to kill people and their pets. That is my concern.

I'm going to come to your neighbourhood and walk around my Cape Buffalo.

And where I live (in Alberta, Canada), we actually have mandatory laws that pit bulls must be musseled outside the owner's property, a registered pit bull kennel, training business, or owners' club, or consenting person's property. Amazing! A compromise! I know how much Americans hate those in the modern day.

 

[Berzerker]

This is a bad concern. Can you prove that pit bulls are dangerous as a baseline?

Somebody posted data on attacks in the thread, pit bulls were the breed overwhelmingly involved.

You've freely provided evidence in this thread that a powerful range of dog breeds is dangerous when mistreated or put into extraordinary circumstances. That would seem to disprove your argument that these breeds are dangerous by virtue of being what they are.

What they are is dangerous, why does it matter if they were mistreated or put in extraordinary circumstances? Will those situations disappear rendering pit bulls safe? No and no, they're not safe even when treated well. Their nature is the result of breeding violent aggressive dogs to be violent and aggressive.

That you are comparing them to non-domesticated predators is wholly nonsensical and demonstrates how little awareness you possess over these dogs. You're just afraid, and you're letting that fear dictate your voice on the matter.

That was hyperbole to show just how dangerous a pissed off pit bull can be - its gonna find something to eat and it dont care if its a person. Wholly nonsensical would be comparing a pit bull to a razor. Yeah, I'm afraid for my loved ones and other people and their pets. Tell me, if you see a couple of pit bulls running around the neighborhood, how do you react? Any concern for that small child playing in his yard? Do you maybe keep an eye on the situation? Contact the owner? Start looking for a stick or weapon in case those dogs attack that small child? Or do you ignore them?

I live next to a rescued pit bull that was raised in a fighting racket. He can't be around people because his default is to attack. Here's the difference between you and I: you see the problem in this equation as being "pit bull". I see the problem in this equation as being "raised in a fighting racket". Pit bulls are just fine if they are raised properly, and their behaviour isn't all that different from other breed ranges if they've been mistreated. Every animal will become aggressive if they are raised that way, and everyone, including you, will become hostile if you're starved. A chihuahua will be just as vicious in the same circumstances.

I see both as a problem, and both are solved if people cant own pit bulls. A chihuahua aint gonna eat the neighbors if he's hungry. Pit bulls were bred to kill, maim, attack... Of course I see that as the problem. It doesn't matter if a dog was raised in a fighting racket, the reason he's put into that extraordinary situation is because of that breeding. They were bred into existence, they can be bred out of it.

 

[Kyriakos]

And?

They may be "self inflicted," but they are just as much unintended consequences of otherwise innocent behavior. Usually behavior that has no necessity behind it. Some of those bicycle injuries might be people who are using their bike for necessary transportation, but the vast majority aren't. My son used to commute on a skateboard, but as far as I know that could be the only 'practical skateboarding' ever. People do use ladders professionally (even me), but the majority of injuries are to people who are not professionals who no doubt could have and clearly should have called in a professional.

If the issue is elimination of unintended injuries there are clearly far more profitable places to start.

Oh, and I cut myself shaving...BAN RAZORS!!!!!

Now, that I can get behind.

Ok, next time someone does you any injury, consider it could have been a fridge you bumped into, and maintain full zen

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I don't see an issue severe enough to warrant banning a breed.

Especially since it isn't an actual breed that is defined...but the ban happy are always willing to hop on a bandwagon and not worry about where it careens next. I read a book recently where the local ordinance against pit bulls acknowledged that since there is technically no such breed the determining factor in the ban would be "if two animal control officers agree the dog is a pit bull, it is a pit bull." Two of the characters were animal control officers who made a tidy side hustle out of being paid to call dogs pit bulls any time a neighbor just wanted a dog removed. It was fiction, but unfortunately the local ordinance featured was lifted word for word from an actual US city.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I see both as a problem, and both are solved if people cant own pit bulls.

An alternative that solves both 'problems' as seen by you and would no doubt be more popular is moving you to another planet.

 

[Synobun]

That was hyperbole to show just how dangerous a pissed off pit bull can be - its gonna find something to eat and it dont care if its a person.

Except this is a universal quality found in all creatures that are capable of digesting meat and is not at all somehow unique to pit bulls. Following your logic, the only acceptable pet is a teacup poodle that has had its teeth removed so it has to use its gums to eat slurried food. Otherwise it might harm someone if you abuse them.

Tell me, if you see a couple of pit bulls running around the neighborhood, how do you react? Any concern for that small child playing in his yard? Do you maybe keep an eye on the situation? Contact the owner? Start looking for a stick or weapon in case those dogs attack that small child? Or do you ignore them?

I possess knowledge about canines that extends beyond abject fear, so I would observe the situation. There's a difference between a hostile dog and a wandering dog, and my intervention between a child and a dog is likely to depend more on the kid than the animal since children tend to do things they shouldn't.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

When I see a wandering dog I look for a collar. If it has one I try to apprehend it so I can check tags and hopefully call the owner.

But I don't have the character of a rabbit, so some people no doubt will react differently.

 

[Berzerker]

An alternative that solves both 'problems' as seen by you and would no doubt be more popular is moving you to another planet.

Is that the planet of man-eating skateboards?

When I see a wandering dog I look for a collar. If it has one I try to apprehend it so I can check tags and hopefully call the owner.

But I don't have the character of a rabbit, so some people no doubt will react differently.

Maybe the nice lady who got eaten alive was checking their tags. Do you grab a pit bull's collar when he's looking at you like his next meal? Wow, comparing people who fear for the safety of family and neighbors to 'rabbits' is telling, thats what the pit bull is thinking too. Would you support any restraints on pit bulls roaming neighborhoods? Maybe you can explain to all these people suffering from attacks they're just chickens, scaredy cats, cowards. And you think I'm a troll?

 

[stinkubus]

Who cares if the term "pit bull" encompasses more than one breed? Ban all the breed the term applies to then. Your right to own a dog does not allow you to put others in jeopardy, and no responsible owner would ever claim their pit couldn't attack someone because it's simply not true. If a pit encounters a young child, or anything else of small stature, there's a non-zero chance it will attack regardless of how well trained you think it is. The same is not true of just about any other breed or group of breeds, and that is demonstrated by the fact that pits are responsible for an order of magnitude more deaths and injuries than any other.

Their aggressiveness and lethality is also the only thing that truly distinguishes them for other dogs, so it's the only logical reason someone would obtain one.

 

[Synobun]

If a pit encounters a young child, or anything else of small stature, there's a non-zero chance it will attack regardless of how well trained you think it is.

There's a non-zero chance that you'll attack a child too.

 

[stinkubus]

No there isn't, because unlike a dog I am a sentient being capable of making choices.

 

[Kyriakos]

There's a non-zero chance that you'll attack a child too.

Not quite the same fraction, though
Really, keeping dangerous animals as pets is irresponsible. It's what i keep telling my friend, Diomedes, too.

 

[Synobun]

No there isn't, because unlike a dog I am a sentient being capable of making choices.

I'm sorry, you pose a risk no matter how well trained you think you are.