Together since 1957.

[mdwh]

Federal European state is a necessity, if Europe wants to matter in globalized world. Independent equals having 10 million people on average will hardly matter in a world, where decisions are made by countries having hundred times as much people. That's a simple fact every European has to understand.

So when's the US going to merge with the rest of the countries in the continents of N/S America, so that it can catch up with China?

Your numbers are way off - the UK is 60 million compared to the US' 300 million, so that's a factor of 5. And it's not clear that population, rather than military might or economic power, is the main criterion.

 

[Winner]

So when's the US going to merge with the rest of the countries in the continents of N/S America, so that it can catch up with China?

I don't know, but in the long term, US will have to join Europe and South America.

Right now, its economic, political and military power is unsurpassed, so it doesn't have to join anybody.

Europe, on the other hand, has to integrate. EU when taken as one entity has economy bigger than United States. When acting together, it matters in the world. In WTO, EU is represented by one representative, acting on behalf of the whole Union. When the US wants to negotiate about trade issues, they call Brussels, not national capitals.

It follows that if Europe wants to matter also in the field of hard power, it has to integrate more - and the nation states have to give up their veto in security and defense matters.

We can continue living in delusion of national sovereignty, but we will be marginalized. It's easy choice, actually.

Your numbers are way off - the UK is 60 million compared to the US' 300 million, so that's a factor of 5. And it's not clear that population, rather than military might or economic power, is the main criterion.

Ultimately, everything is derived from population. When China reaches the same level of development as the US, its economy will be 4 times as big, which will mean 4 times as much money for its armed forces, 4 times as much money for reaserch etc.

Smaller nation mattered in the past only because they were more advanced. Britain, relatively small nation, ruled over 1/3 of the planet.

This is not possible anymore. People have to understand that the world has changed. As of now, UK only matters as the closest US ally.

Any EU member state is too small to matter in the globalized world. If we don't integrate, we will be simply overlooked. Is that the future we want?

 

[Winner]

How on earth would moving power from our national parliaments to the Brussels bureaucracy be more democratic?! The further away from the citizens, the lesser democracy.

That's an idealistic perception and that's why it is wrong.

Some things have to be dealt with on a higher level. Security, foreign policy etc. belong in that cathegory.

Imagine that all 50 US states would have to approve any move in the foreign policy of the United States.

Better comparison: imagine that all people in Sweden would have to agree with a government policy if it was to be implemented. It would be hyper-democratic, nobody would be overlooked. So why haven't you do it? Well, simply because it doesn't work. It can't work. Better than this kind of ideal democracy, we estabilished a representative democracy and majority vote.

Currently, any EU state can block any EU move in foreign policy. That's why there is no EU foreign policy and that's why EU doesn't matter politically in the world. See Iraq war - EU countries were immediately divided. If there had been a common foreign policy, we would have come to a conclusion and we would have push it forward.

We did have different starting points, Sweden and the Czech Republic, when we joined. That might be why we differ in opinion about the necessity of an European superpower, because Europe does matter very much right now in the globalized world without being a federation. It's not like anyone outside of Europe is thinking: well, the average population of one of the 27 member states is only about 10 mill so we can disregard the fact that it's the strongest market in the world.

EU does matter in economic issues only because its members have given up their veto. They can't block the progress anymore, since trade policy is now directed on supranational level. Economically speaking, EU is very close to federation.

The EU is wielding an awesome economic might which makes all other nations stand up and listen whenever we speak up. The problem is one of self-confidence: many people seem to believe that we don't matter if we're not a federal superpower (an oldfashioned notion indeed), so instead of standing up for the foundational principles of Western civilization the EU becomes a mumbling coward and a collaborateur to crimes against human rights. And when EU is acting like this, I want my country to have the freedom to do the honourable thing instead. Even though many of our politicians probably wouldn't anyway...

Many people belive it because it's true. We're living in a world of power politics, where size matters

Edit:Please bring some of those wonderful beers on our way to Cuba. They're one of the best reasons to have a common European market.

We're going to Cuba?

 

[Mirc]

Tomorrow is the 50th Anniversary of the Treaty of Rome.

What has Europe achieved?

Did it improve your everyday life?

What about your rights?

What is the next "big step" in your opinion for Europe?

When do you believe we'll see the € in UK?

1) A time of peace not achieved before in the past 1500 years or so.
2) We're just in the EU for 3 months. Yet I do see some better things.
3) No change for me.
4) Adopting the EU constitution
5) I don't know. I hope as soon as possible.

 

[Grisu]

Tomorrow is the 50th Anniversary of the Treaty of Rome.

Happy B'Day Europe

What has Europe achieved?

as others have said: Peace, though 'only' within the EU, not all of Europe. But even here the EU surely had a stabilizing effect, I believe.

Did it improve your everyday life?

I'm not living within the EU, but I think that a stable Europe has indirectly benefitted my life

What about your rights?

not applicable to me

What is the next "big step" in your opinion for Europe?

deciding whether they want to be a truly a Europen Union or merely a Economic Coopereation and common market.

When do you believe we'll see the € in UK?

not for a long time, I'm afraid

 

[Winner]

What is the next "big step" in your opinion for Europe?
Lord knows what but we, the stinking masses, will not be consulted and will be the last to know.

I hope so.

As I said previously, 95% of Czechs don't know (or give) a damn about the EU. I know we're exceptionally stupid, but I guess it's not much different in other member states.

French dismissed the eU contitution because they wanted to punish their government. Dutch were afraid of further enlargement, so they said "no" to a treaty that had nothing to do with it.

People are stupid, that't why we have representative democracy - we hope that we elect people, who are at least partially capable of making decisions.

I'd trust any EU bureaucrat over average EU citizen any day. These people are not some evil opportunists, they do hard work and they do it good. Entire European Commission, a governing body for 500 million people, employ less people than Paris city hall.

I hate people complaining about the EU bureacracy, because they almost always just repeat phrases they heard from some stupid politician. EU bureaucracy is more effective than most of the national bureaucracies in EU member states.

 

[Wolfhart]

That's an idealistic perception and that's why it is wrong.
Some things have to be dealt with on a higher level. Security, foreign policy etc. belong in that cathegory.
Imagine that all 50 US states would have to approve any move in the foreign policy of the United States.
Better comparison: imagine that all people in Sweden would have to agree with a government policy if it was to be implemented. It would be hyper-democratic, nobody would be overlooked. So why haven't you do it? Well, simply because it doesn't work. It can't work. Better than this kind of ideal democracy, we estabilished a representative democracy and majority vote..

Just because it's idealistic doesn't mean it's wrong As a Swedish citizen I've grown up knowing that my voice could be heard in a number of different ways all the way up to my representatives in our parliament and government. Moving them to Brussels is moving them away from me and making my voice very much more insignificant. And my representatives there will be insignificant when in company with the larger European countries, so my country will be permanently screwed unless we always agree with the big dogs. My vote would be severely devalued, as would almost all other EU citizen's.

Currently, any EU state can block any EU move in foreign policy. That's why there is no EU foreign policy and that's why EU doesn't matter politically in the world. See Iraq war - EU countries were immediately divided. If there had been a common foreign policy, we would have come to a conclusion and we would have push it forward.

Veto is the small countries' only way of having a say in important matters; that way we can't be forced into ill-conceived political adventures based on deceit like the war against Iraq. Veto is a blunt instrument, it sometimes hinders necessary things to be done but what is necessary for one nation could be damaging for another, and most importantly veto also hinders really bad things to be imposed on us.

EU does matter in economic issues only because its members have given up their veto. They can't block the progress anymore, since trade policy is now directed on supranational level. Economically speaking, EU is very close to federation.

And that's the role EU should have, it is the raison d'être. The common market is what's been keeping the peace in Western Europe the last 50 years, not a common foreign or security policy.

Many people belive it because it's true. We're living in a world of power politics, where size matters

That "truth" is debatable. What matters most is economic size (all those old rich men with young beautiful wives... ), because it is the basis of political and military power. As an economic superpower the EU will always matter, federation or not.

I hope so.
As I said previously, 95% of Czechs don't know (or give) a damn about the EU. I know we're exceptionally stupid, but I guess it's not much different in other member states.
French dismissed the eU contitution because they wanted to punish their government. Dutch were afraid of further enlargement, so they said "no" to a treaty that had nothing to do with it.
People are stupid, that't why we have representative democracy - we hope that we elect people, who are at least partially capable of making decisions.
I'd trust any EU bureaucrat over average EU citizen any day. These people are not some evil opportunists, they do hard work and they do it good. Entire European Commission, a governing body for 500 million people, employ less people than Paris city hall.
I hate people complaining about the EU bureacracy, because they almost always just repeat phrases they heard from some stupid politician. EU bureaucracy is more effective than most of the national bureaucracies in EU member states.

"People are stupid"? If that's the way you see your fellow citizens it's no wonder you're prepared to give it all up to Brussels.

I think I'll earn more of your hatred by complaining some more about the EU bureaucracy: it's autocratic and there's a severe lack of transparency. I realize that compared to some national bureaucracies it might be considered efficient and benevolent, but I can only compare it to the Nordic countries and in that case my criticism stands. Especially the lack of transparency is detrimental to our trust in EU, because it prevents us from seeing on what grounds and by whom decisions influencing our daily lives are made.

We're going to Cuba?

Bad joke on my part, in another thread you offered Czech troops to assist Sweden against the mighty Cubans because of the two Czech MP's they arrested.


I can see that we won't agree on much about the EU. My point of view is admittedly narrow: I see qualities in my own country that we will lose in an European federation, and I don't think it's worth it for us. But I also see that other Europeans would gain from it, and even gain from my own country's incorporation into the federation. My loss is their gain.

 

[Steph]

What has Europe achieved?

Isn't it the first time in history that there is an attempt for several countries (27!), with different customs, languages, currencies, laws, etc. which have been bitter ennemies for decades, to work together and peacefully decide to unit. All previous cases where the results of conquests.

So what has Europe achieved?

Hope. Hope that humanity can one day manage to overcome their differences.

Did it improve your everyday life?

I can travel easily anywhere in Europe. I'm not afraid of war. We have a good life. And we have plenty of friends in other countries.

What about your rights?

I don't see a change here.

What is the next "big step" in your opinion for Europe?

I'm fore more federalism, integrated army and foreign policy. However, we should keep national army, as part of a bigger one, with perhaps some specialization for countries.

Oh, and we need to adopt French as the official EU language of course

When do you believe we'll see the € in UK?

We already do. If I can to UK with some € in my pocket, we can see € in UK
If the question is when UK will abandon the pound for UK, I think it will happen just after it stops raining in the UK. In a few decades perhaps?

 

[Rik Meleet]

It has achieved that the darkness of previous times was left behind; No wars and instead peacefully and economic prosperity for the European citizens.

And now we all need to be careful to not kill this gem by making it a political Union. Let it be what it is best; an economic cooperation system.

 

[Mise]

Tomorrow is the 50th Anniversary of the Treaty of Rome.

What has Europe achieved?

Did it improve your everyday life?

What about your rights?

What is the next "big step" in your opinion for Europe?

When do you believe we'll see the € in UK?

1) Lots. Same thing that everyone else has said.

2) Yup. Common market = good. Trips to Europe = good.

3) Yes and no... I suppose it enforced some more-than-basic human rights upon us, but whether that is actually a good thing I don't know.

4) Further economic partnership, with less political consolidation.

5) When the time is right. I don't think that, in general, it's wise to have our monetary mechanism hindered by the rest of Europe. It caused problems in Germany and France with under-consumption, and in Spain with property market speculation. I don't want to see those problems (or worse) in the UK.

 

[Kozmos]

It has achieved that the darkness of previous times was left behind; No wars and instead peacefully and economic prosperity for the European citizens.

And now we all need to be careful to not kill this gem by making it a political Union. Let it be what it is best; an economic cooperation system.

But we can have........UNLIMITEEEEEEEEED POWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER!!!!

 

[Lonkut]

Tomorrow is the 50th Anniversary of the Treaty of Rome.

What has Europe achieved?

Did it improve your everyday life?

What about your rights?

What is the next "big step" in your opinion for Europe?

When do you believe we'll see the € in UK?

Europeans are just a bunch of intelligent morons who have no idea what to do with their lives ( no guidance it seems) who can't decide whether to be cruel and violent ( good ol' clasical age und dark ages (though not so good thats when the things started to go down hill)) or be all gay and care of other people's feelings and ban everything that offends others.

Everyday lives? not really, we now live longer and with it come the problems with old age.

Human rights? They give some and take away some.

Next step? Further gayification of the continent, prolly, though I hope not.