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Tomatekh's New Civilizations

Discussion in 'Civ5 - New Civilizations' started by Tomatekh, Aug 16, 2012.

  1. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    The turn 2 crash is caused by the CP. After the last CP update (or maybe it was the one before that) it started interacting weirdly with a bunch of mods it worked fine with before leading to a crash on the second turn. I don't know exactly what causes the issue, but it's likely something the CP itself has to fix.
     
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  2. SLGray

    SLGray King

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    It was weird because it worked fine a couple days after I installed the newest version. It just started yesterday.
     
  3. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    It could also be something with load order then. References are somewhat worthless as half the time mods ignore them anyway, so whenever you download a new mod or a new version of a mod it usually ends up getting activated/loaded last. So, while something worked fine loading before other mods, loading after can cause tables or similar things to not load properly if a mod doesn't properly add them. Which just makes everything that much harder to troubleshoot :/
     
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  4. SLGray

    SLGray King

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    Thanks for the information.
     
  5. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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  6. 1760s

    1760s Chieftain

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    Exciting release! Looking forward to trying it out in my next game. I always liked way back in Civ II when I could bribe enemy cities using spies, so seeing something similar here is intriguing...
     
  7. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    I should caution it's very much a first release. While I believe the mechanics are solid and all there, the balance of the mod likely needs a lot of tweaking. Some things like the modern model and another lua toggle button will also be added in a later update, but I still feel it's a complete experience and fun mod in its current state.
     
  8. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    Also, I don't think it needs to be said, but of course one my mods is compatible with the likes of EE and accommodates the Tavern (and Pouakai and Jan said I could use the building).
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
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  9. Stef09

    Stef09 Warlord

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    Really neat! Tried first game with it when playing the Olmec. Unfortunately did not yet get to try the Great Spy missions, but did run into 2 other things:
    - Built Colossal Head with Great Spy. This didn't provide extra yield except the 4 science. Might have to do with Intelligence being pseudo-yield? Would it be option to provide Intelligence as real yield or otherwise provide Golden Age points for the CH?
    - Not sure if it is the real cause, but I experienced on 2 occasions CTD when about to have "Celebrate the Champions" decision becoming enactable (so during other turns processing). Attached log of this. Furthermore playing with JFDLC, E&D, HR, EE and PeC.

    Believe that Great Spy cannot build improvement? Just an idea, but perhaps he could build a Spy Centre/Intelligence Agency/Ninja Camp as improvement, which would yield Intelligence?

    I like how this gives more importance to the defensive buildings due to providing Intelligence as typically those are the last ones I build...
     

    Attached Files:

    • Log.zip
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  10. Stef09

    Stef09 Warlord

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    Some reports & thoughts on Povery Point:
    - Creation of Effigy Mounds causes drop in culture threshold. Happened twice: 1st time (Old Man Above) drop from 110 to 35 (log attached). 2nd time (Long Tail) drop from 270 to 110.
    - When enacting Old Man Above I didn't see any faith threshold drop to gain next Great Prophet as mentioned in description.
    - Fox-Man remains able to create Holy Sites. Shouldn't this be just creation of Effigy Mounds? The social policy Theocracy could then provide +3 gold to Effigy Mounds.
    - When finishing Liberty policy tree, I wasn't able to select free Fox-Man (or Great Prophet)
    - Hope to see PP with all own art one day :)
     

    Attached Files:

    • PP.zip
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  11. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    - A Great Spy head is programmed to give GA points. If they're not doing so, then I'll look into it. Having only one type of head that has an invisible yield was a conscious design decision. I thought it was important to have all the heads be identical in name and appearance (to give the illusion of a single improvement type), however, for game play reasons, you need to be able to tell them apart. You can easily do this by looking at their yields. Having two heads that gave science and then different invisible yields (GA points, intelligence, etc.) would be confusing as they'd be no immediate way to tell them apart short of memorizing which tile you made which head. So, all heads with no secondary yield are meant to GA points. (Of course the CP makes this less of an issue, which is why tourism and health heads exist in combination with specific mods, but I code mods to primarily function with the base game over anything else).

    - The Great Spy not having an improvement was also intentional. Even though I packaged it as a single ability, "Conduct Espionage Mission," it's really 12 separate abilities which already makes the Great Spy significantly more versatile than the other great people. Because of this, I wanted to downplay the unit's secondary ability and kept it mostly simple as a passive that allows you to see a rival civilization's research if the great spy is in their territory (with some sight/movement bonuses thrown in for thematics).

    - I'll have to look into the CTD some more (thanks for the logs). The only thing different about the "Champions" decision is that it checks if the "Rubber" decision is saved true. It could be an issue with Saveutils, but I use that everywhere and something wrong with it usually just makes the ability not work rather than cause a crash.

    - Hmm, I know the culture threshold bug, but had accommodated for it by including double dummy policies to cancel things out. Maybe the code isn't properly awarding them to the player... I'll check it out, thanks.

    - That's because technically it doesn't lower the threshold. It instead checks your faith and forces a spawn at lower values. I do this instead of changing the actual threshold because I check the actual threshold to calculate some of the civ's other abilities. However, there is a bug with this ability currently where it doesn't use the correct values for every game speed. I've fixed this internally, just haven't posted a corrected build yet.

    - That's intentional. The Effigy Mound isn't a prophet specific improvement; any great person type can build it. It's also only buildable once per era, so I didn't want it to replace anything (and become more of a limit than a bonus to the civ).

    - I wasn't aware of this, but I'm pretty sure I know why. I had to get creative to prevent a bug that exists for all mods that have unique faith purchase units (where any civ ends up being able to purchase them). I didn't think how it would affect the 'choose a free great person bonus' (and it probably also applies to the Leaning Tower of Pisa effect). However, I'm not sure it can be fixed without re-enabling the faith purchase bug. I'll look into it, but it might just be something the mod has to live with :/

    - No new news on art, unfortunately. I might actually be able to work something out for unit icons now, which could help reduce the workload, but leader art remains a rare treasure these days.

    Thanks for the feedback!
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
  12. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    So, people on Steam are reporting a late game crash when using the Great Spy mod. Has anyone experienced similar (and can actually provide error logs unlike Steam comments which amount to, "it doesn't work," with no additional details or follow-up)?
     
  13. turingmachine

    turingmachine Emperor

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    The Great Spy mod looks interesting. Does it have a spy specialist or work with the regular spies? Also, is it compatible with other mods like Enlightenment Era or JFD's stuff?
     
  14. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    The unemployed citizen is the spy specialist.

    It doesn’t interact much with the existing espionage system, but that’s by design. So, the great spy can’t steal tech directly or rig city-states because those are the primary abilities of the regular spies and I didn’t want them to overlap. However, the ability to view city screens by regular spies is useful for the great spy’s espionage missions and the great spy can temporarily boost espionage defense which can be useful to occasionally keep less regular spies on defense.

    The mod should work fine with most other mods. Almost all the updates it makes are to text entries and not abilities. With EE, it will merge the two taverns. It should work with JFD’s mods. The kidnap great person mission can interact with the doctor’s (and Leugi’s entertainer’s) improvement. It should even merge the text changes for overlapping buildings (if the load order works correctly). However, it doesn’t have support for the great people specific things that some of JFD’s mods do, mostly because I felt this was probably something better supported on his end than mine. Otherwise, I would have had some lua or trigger that needed to be updated every version or I would accidentally break something and not know how to fix it.
     
  15. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    Also, since someone asked it on Steam, the AI can use the unit. The system works slightly different for the AI and it won't use it as efficiently as a human, but they do get use out of it.

    And, just so it doesn't get buried with the posts, please post if you experience a crash when using the mod (and, if possible, attach error logs).
     
  16. Watchington

    Watchington Chieftain

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    Speaking of Community Patch. I was just playing an older version(haven't updated CP for a long time) and diceded to try out the great spy mod, and, as I always do with the mods that add new stuff to the game, decided to see changes to Civilopedia. And I've noticed that now game has 2 Motherland Calls wonders, one of which is in Theology tech(where the CP's St.Basil's Cathedral[known as Kremlin in vanila, altho I think renaming this wonder to "Red Square" makes much more sense than that] used to be) and the other one is in the Railroads. Does anybody else have this too?
     
  17. Tomatekh

    Tomatekh Sahib-i-Qirani

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    My mod and the CBP make different changes to the Kremlin resulting in the overlap. However, I make my mods primarily with the base game, so I'm not concerned with accommodating the changes made by the CBP.
     
  18. Stef09

    Stef09 Warlord

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    Found a minor bug in & have some ideas for the Great Spy mod. Playing as Harappa and using CP (16-feb), E&D, all up-to-date JFD gameplay mods, EE, HR, PeC.
    - Have built both wall and jail in capital - each supposedly provides +1 intelligence according to description. Walls provided +1 intelligence indeed, but noticed that when jail was finished intelligence per turn stayed at +1 only. Attached the logs.

    - The intelligence costs for certain missions - do they increase over time and if so, based on what? You can only see the costs when in Choose Mission screen, but you might not have enough Intelligence. Is there a way to show the costs earlier, which might help in deciding at what time to send Great Spy in?
    - You already have a great number and cool missions in there. Thinking of any opportunities to add to this, I didn't see a mission to destroy a building in a city, see enemy troops or acquire enemy maps (for a certain intelligence cost), which could be fitting features for a spy. Would any of those be a nice addition?
    - I'm not sure I would ever use the Sell Secrets mission (perhaps just me as I'm less interested in score) which however feels like the #1 end-game mission to spend Intelligence on. Perhaps above suggestions can be used to balance options to spend (excess) Intelligence on during end-game? Or convert Intelligence into Science or something?
    - If Great Spy succesfully returns, will it level up thus increasing future success rate? Perhaps in combination with giving it a delay for its next Great Spy mission?

    Thanks for this great mod!
     

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  19. Watchington

    Watchington Chieftain

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    I get it. (Still hope this issue will be resolved in the futer versions of your mod.) Btw, if so, I was wondering, if you or someone else could change the Icon for Kremlin, or rename it to Red Square as I previously said. Cause St. Basils Cathedral can be built by JFD's Ivan the Terrible (with Events and Decissions.)
     
  20. Stef09

    Stef09 Warlord

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    Kremlin and St. Basil's Cathedral are not the same, so why? If anything, St. Basil's Cathedral is at the Red Square.
     

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