Trouble in the Gulf: Ties to Qatar cut

[r16]

ı can really understand the feeling that Al Crusading (known as Al Jazeera elsewhere on the web) offers a view that's amazingly refreshening after a full night's of American media BS , but we see the English edition , with former BBC crew and the lot . And not the Channel cleric shouting "Kill the Shia! Kill the Shia!" everyday and night .

and indeed this is banal . When the said cleric was supporting Democracy in Syria , the number of groups were up to reportedly 1400 or 1500 or whatever . With every single village henchman becoming the head of a "Brigade" to get the funding . We hear New Turkey has suddenly developed a feeling against Freedom Fighters who fight from cushy hotels , you know , in Turkey and cut their funding . Supposedly 320 millions a month . Was probably Qatari anyhow . And instead a glorious fight against the infidel Qataris or infidel Saudis (from the other side) with a zillion billion Brigades all we see is playing for time and the lot . Hence Arda Turan , of Qatari support , returns to the National team while his Kebab selling friend leaves the premises of Galatasaray , soon possibly to be directed by Terim . Don't know why they started anyhow . Even Adriana Lima returns to her former . A tennis player and Greek by the look of his name . A gloirous 5 day thing , yeah the New Turkey is eternal , man ! Ah yeah , it all even makes my ranting banal .

 

[Takhisis]

Well, the English feed at least tends to show footage of Israeli border guard/security/police/whatever picking on civilians.

And it also tends to say stuff about Saudi Arabia and its Yemeni fun-rides. The Saudis and Iran are enemies. Israel and Iran are enemies.

Hmmm.

 

[r16]

to be relevant in the Middle East one really has to show Israelis oppressing the Palestinians . Which is at least a fact , with only the severity of the Israeli actions debateable . As for the anti-Saudi actions which would been done to the same extent to the Palestinians , if Palestinians were unhappy with the Saudis or something , they are just part of the Qatari "backstabbing" that has been on-ongoing . Partly for they want to be number 1 , partly it tricks the New Turkey in its dreams of world domination and the like . When the Saudi operations began , Al Crusading had the same optimism about the quick defeat of the Houthis but remarked on the civilian casualties ; because they really need to look like "neutral" Western media . The yardstick is always Libya and those people rumoured to organize demonstrators for better visibility and the lot .

and what an embrassment ... Now that the sensible part of the post is done .

1-Voice of Russia corrects the sum to 320 000 dollars , which is like just about the hotel costs of of the leadership of Freedom Fighters and the like . An eager programmer , if you will , that person sometime gets carried away much . Or Putin wants to sell another nuclear power station and does not want "hostility" to New Turkey , with hints of supporting people .

2-lima apparently tweets the former is not a former in that sense ; being uninterested in women and in the family or something ; this is apparently the reason why millions are laughing at me again . Never claimed expertise in relationship history of fashion models and ı really can't see how it helps New Turkey when it's established that Adriana Lima hangs out with gays ...

 

[r16]

#4000 and am still alive , who would have believed it ?


typical "milestone" post , utterly long and boring at this 32 kilobytes larger than average CFC post size . Inadviseable if you don't like them walls of silly texts .

Spoiler :

things go in circles , amazingly they do . My #1000 in CFC was supposed to be , you know , jokes and all . Thirty hundreds later , this country is still supposed to invade Syria , am still like


ho Ho Ho Hell No

we Won't Go

and in that 5 years between , let me see , the New Turkey fought the seperatists , allied with the seperatists , fought the seperatists again . Those greatest men on earth turned out to be traitors , especially to Islam , even if ı was able to tell something was wrong with them , and even telling that to a classmate from the Anatolian High , even before 1990 or thereabouts , after seeing a Lavi or two on the cover of "Penetration" , their flagship magazine . Awesome name , "Penetration" as they were penetrating everywhere and am pretty sure ı wouldn't be able to understand a single page ... Even today . And for those not properly aviation minded , Lavi was an Israeli project , basically "inspired" by the Novi Avion's early days . Supposedly cheaper than a F-16 but carrying more farther and faster and lower and to be paid by the American taxpayer while the Israeli shareholders were to make it big as it replaced the F-16 on the export market , so that the American taxpayer would have to make up for the net results of lesser performance from the US Aviation sector , too . J-10 , the Chinese thing Beijing shook in the face of them Russkies so that they decided to allow the Flanker cloned , is of course not based on the Lavi , the then darling of the Congregation that would loved if the old Turkey bought hundreds of the Israeli thing and America amply rewarded the Congregation , but a different rendition of the Novi Avion . A Yugoslav MiG-21 replacement , which is like totally a halved Rafale . And yes , its Russian thing was to be the Su-37 of 1990s . Su-37 these days is a Flanker and kinda better than an halved Rafale .

post #2000 involved me ranting on how heart broken ı was on the eve of the New Millenium , no Alpha Base on the moon and me being nothing despite once being the kid who could have found a job at the F-16 factory in Ankara , if only he could fathom "Integrals" at the math lessons . Fortunately , Life is not always a lemon and as an achievement since then , ı can surely say ı have finally "discovered" Danni Futuro . A comic so obscure that it doesn't have a Wikipedia page in English , but was a long running part of the kids magazine yours idiotly used to buy weekly . The proper thread being a casualty of the Qatari "crisis" before it even started you can assume this is going to be a pointless rant as usual : but let's start with a debunking or two ...

valerian and Laureline (freshly made into a movie apparently no critic loves) has been put forward as an inspiration for Star Wars , especially in the ship form . namely the Millenium Falcon . If you have any amount of references you will see this :

found too close to Space 1999's Eagle . So , a "variation" was developed :

no doubt matching the early X-Wing format

and yeah , this is really a work into History however banal and trivial . Finally developed into the Blockade Runner everybody knows . The one that changed movies like forever or something , being hammered over Tatooine .

millenium Falcon being described as a bitten off Hamburger and ı don't think there has ever been any "consensus" on a French influence as claimed at the link down below . ı really hate Xenforo for ı still don't know how to add links in an unobtrusive way ... Aaand :

which is the state of the art of the year 2104 . Where this Danni dude finds himself after a plane crash in Antartica in 1990 . Cold water puts him into hibernation and from the French language jpg files ı have , he is gotta be "born" in 1968 or so . Which is presumably the start of the comics as well , apparently by the group that publishes Tintin . It's really all about what's hip in early 1970s , just like the guy manages to get lost while solar surfing . You know , he has these wing like things , and very tiny ı must say , having seen 10 by 10 mile contraptions tested or something . He ends up in some planet where he saves some girl . Very tired and bored she decides to jump off a cliff , he intervenes , all the Joe Publics come after him with stones and sticks . You know , a straight rip-off from Conan in Hyperborea . Then ends up on a spaceship that has breasts and am not kidding . Now you won't see that in the SW universe . His ride coming there to solar surf was actually

and this reminds you what ? Solar panels on the TIEs ? No man , they were sails before they became radiators :

as proven by the Space Pirates . If you look carefully , it's tied to the breastship by actual ropes . Oh yeah , no nipples . Thanks to your friendly sensor . And just let me remind you that they are still passable stories , even if ı can't read French or Spanish . Action against spoiled rich kids that hunt space whales . Female lead joining a circus in the "Andromeda" galaxy ; back then joining a circus was probably the hippest possible thing in Europe . The madness of mutual assured destruction obsession of Man benefitting only insects , like 2 meters tall and kinda far more smarter or something . The Tunguska event happening every week on the planet of Space Mongolians , with some corporation doing some sheninigans . It even shows dead people ...

now , where did ı see this ?

apparently the J guy is claimed by an inspiration of sorts for the droid duo , R2D2 for the can do attitude and the CP03 for the clumsiness . Was such a surprise to see that labelled as Jorge . You see , they had it as Jul -as Jules of the French edition would be prounced in Turkish . ı knew it from that Verne that it was a male name , so Jul had to be a "girl" , you know , 35 years ago . Never claimed ı was smart , right ? Comics are important , man . Helps the kids and idiots to read . Can't read French , for starters , but can follow the story ; no doubt helped by having read them in Turkish so many years ago . Even Valerian was awesome , seen on a magazine that wasn't sold in my city at all . With Turkish names to the characters and apparently happening in space , it broke my heart , too .

ah , this is an anniversary and stuff , gotta be out of the ordinary . Stuff happens all the time like the relevant authority making a mistake in calculations in university exam . 1500 people that had won learn they did not . 1200 who didn't now won . Mostly related to the graduates of Imam Hatips . Which is declared to , you know , silence people who don't like the New . Appears such a mistake happens for the second time , hence "sabotage" , hence Congregation ... With the finest of the Right taken over by the said , they really need to be vigilant and active to put all their sons and daughters into places ; so that the New young generation can contribute to the dumbing down of the country on their own . As repeatedly said back in my time if you failed to win , that was your own failing or lack of effort and nobody elses . The dumbest rich kid might have extra tutors and fail and his parents would send him to a private university on Northern Cyprus , but never there would be correction like this . Now , the dumbest poor kid can be asured of success as long as his family , extented family whatever is partizan enough .

the only amazing thing is that the authority has issued a message of "Sorry!" These couple of years the same authority has been busy teaching the kids about keeping the time . They close the doors 15 minutes before the exams' start and there have been literally hundreds of cases of kids and families in tears for they were a minute late ; that minute translates into a full lost year . While talking of standarts at such times and how everybody is punctual in foreign countries , all we have from the authority is a "Sorry!" . You know , in godless Western countries there would be dozens of resignations , up to the Ministers of Education . In Japan they might even commit harakiri . While Islam bans suicides , what happened to 100 years of "Japan succeeds because its ethics are copied from Islam" narrative , something yours idiotly repeatedly encountered in almost 20 years of schooling ? "Sorry" ? Ah , they release a statement that 300 000 places in universities are still empty . Generally in forsaken places where the losers will have to pay for food and rent and make their financial contribution to provincial bigwigs , while losing 2 or 4 years of their life to get a diploma that's almost good only for wiping the windows , if not their backside . See , if feeling hurt for loosing a spot you have won , there are 300 000 places still available for grabbing , in a bid to waste your life . This year , they are making such wordy press briefing because they created 1200 spots for "their" kids in better places .

but then no point in that . All those mistakes , if they are mistakes , add to the power of the New . If you look like unhappy , they discover they have done a mistake here or there . If you are happy you will win even without taking the exam . States were discovered to improve war , right ? The New Turkey is all about its denizens getting anything while denying everything to the rest ; while still imagining the rest will carry the burden . Which is correct and right , because let me see , the New was born to rule the world . Can't understand why they haven't taken over the planet yet ...

now , this being pointless and any unfortunate soul who came here by accident would have to suffer the entire wall of text to reach to the bottom or rreturn to top to close the spoiler box or whatever ı have to make a break here . Eyesore , but can't be helped ...


and also the 30 000 Word limit .

 

[r16]

Spoiler :

as said , the New happens in Turkey everyday . Hence ı do commit myself into investigations and discover the German wikipedia page . Almost right . And also reprove my not so exactly rare capability of making stuff from a language ı don't know if ı know a bit on the issue that's under discussion . The series started in 1969 and the guy crashes in 1983 . Though ı seriously doubt there were any Catalinas flying to Antarctica even in the 50s . So this is a marketing strategy , right ? Readers , naturally boys , given a possibility that it can happen to them as well . Now that the French jps ı have are supposedly from reissues of 1998 . And yeah , the solar sails are first seen in a book of 1975 . Even if clearly appears Lucas and Ralph McQuarrie first met in November 1974 and Lucas had a TiE sketch already ... Well , you can't win them all , right ?


70s oddly sound cool , when you read actual stuff from the days . Or something . Having being spared being in the gaudy colours of the fashion of the era , ı can only laugh at the feeling of how the things were exactly the same . Take Air International , one magazine ı still cherish . Now that things go in circles this must be the 10th time of me talking on how it was respected as a balanced thing , with a thing for all . Some issues were naturally great and some where were bland but back in the old days if something was on the Air International it was more likely to be true . Before , you know , it was killed by the Lockmart and their British cousins , under a new management as well , sprouting straight propaganda . Everything dies someday afterall .

but the old issues are still awesome . There is this concept of What If , plane modellers doing unhistoric things . Modellers naturally want to realise a miniature version of the real thing , this developing into references and the like , on how you painted a green patch after the canopy of that 1/72 P-51 , because there is a picture showing it on the real plane , even if no other Mustangs had ever had it . Which gets solid over time , with competitions and the like and people soon start to grumble against the idiot who put a dozen Sidewinders on a Spit . Which is so untrue , now that the good old Spit lacks pylon space for that and limited to 8 Zunis at most . Air International had a dedicated modellers section and the guy , who had a flowing kind of writing ı much enjoyed over the years even defended What If , a mere fault that could be corrected over time into proper modelling , not an affront that demanded Tar and Feathers ...

even Bill Gunston could be relaxed when writing there ; being the most ardent pro-UK plane maker guy that ever could be . A former RAF guy that barely missed the WW2 . A guy that waxed lyrics on the great new NATO airbases , standardized and miles upon miles of unassailable concrete and becoming their harshest critic and lampooning their survivability as soon as a British company had the first steps to VTOL . Actually hating Harrier beyond belief but never shirking from "Duty" . And what was the best plane ride he ever had ? F-15B as USAF was discovering the path to the 'E . Gunston attacked it as unworkable , true , when it appeared Saudis might want some instead of Tornados ; before Desert Storm proved low level penetration was unnecessarily risky in face of the 9th tier opposition that was to be the order of the day , Soviet Bloc dissolving and the West imagining a golden age .

oh and let's just irritate people with a startling "revelation" that certainly will not set the world on fire . That magazine was solely set up to sell some planes to Turkey ... With no obligation on part of any unfortunate reader of this passage to believe .

the prospective debale of August 1964 on Cyprus being a good point as a background thing . 500 plus university students or 700 landed on the island after a basic training as the indications were that the Greeks would conduct massacres . They are like bait , so that the massively superior Greeks can not fully engage . ı watched a documentary that shows a guy was shot dead attacking a hill , Greek commandos tried extensively hard not be reported as by the UN as an aggressor so instead they booby trapped all over the place causing 3 deaths and one guy was caught in an artillery barrage . So there were the inevitable air raids . This Greek internet guy says the attacks took place over three days and just one hospital was hit with 19 deaths . Wouldn't want to explain that they were out to ethnically cleanse an area and cut down to size in a day . Despite the UN removing the peacekeepers to force Ankara to a peaceful resolution . Or how they shot down a plane , captured the pilot and withdrew blood with syringes while the UN representatives were not looking and stuff to that end , because the guy was nor bleeding to death fast enough on that full blown hospital in Lefkoşe. Might hurt their Kurdish brothers if some idiot comes up and mentions the pilot was of the East .

which blew up so many fuses in Washington . Being Fundemantalists and the like and it was obviously such a good thing that every generation should fight a war , just like 1914 was followed by 1939 and '64 was to be it (in Vietnam) there were talks of war , 1969 nominally being a re-landing in Western Anatolia . Little people in black pajamas being tougher than imagined in Washington , the 6 Day war creating very new issues in the Middle East and someplace called Domedovo , it was a no show . Greeks had a coup in '67 with more "properly minded" Turkish haters brought to the job , we had a cruise to Cyprus from we were turned back by American orders . Created a whole mess of manhood issues with tears as the ships changed their courses and at least one attempt at suicide . You know , this would break the now dead Turkish Armed Forces , with proof that we were worthless and make it easier for the outnumbered Greeks .


devil showing up to save us ? Throwing a spanner to the works ? With nobody seeing a thing ? Well , a guy named Kaddafi staged a coup in Libya . Maybe unbalanced a bit , at least more than average tyrant , he still had a grasp of politics . Revolution riding on the humiliation of the Arabs in battle and Libya being a 20th Century thing with the only exiting thing was the decades long resistance to Italians . Confusing as per typical r16 nonsense ? It shouldn't be . The early years were with Ottoman collaboration and maybe his tribe was not as involved to the bitter end and might hurt him politically if Senusis organized to oppose him later on . He needed doing something with the Turks and was kinda surprised to see whatever respect he would get was not related that he had oil wells . To understand the feeling you gotta really own a whole freakin' oil producing country . And loved the possibility of being the Atatürk of Libya with wide ranging possibilities of economic stuff and education of youth . You see , universities of 1960s in Turkey were universities , not local gigs . He formerly being in the Libyan Air Force and we being in dire need of a supply chain and stuff , now that Johnson threatened an arms embargo back in 1963 and all the chit chat with the veterans of WW II on both the German and Russian sides indicated aerial success determined all ... the first thing was the Mirage F1 . The factory we were supposed to get was naturally offered to the Greeks by 1971 . ı will never like Dassault , or something . With them milking Kaddafi as much as they could and offering barrel , stock and lock to the Greeks , our would be killers , you know , just to have insulted us before our demise . Greeks , being Greeks and not fully attuned to the situation , refused and preferred their "masters" to equip them for free . Kaddafi changed the contracts to more IIIs for the Egyptians and nothing much was lost on his side . Dassault would try to sell the factory again and again , this time to the Saudis to be established in Egypt . It's a fashionable sport in Turkey to watch the French Air Force buying from Dassault ever since . First forced to buy the F1 instead of the far more capable F2 , then 2000 instead of variable geometry Tornado equivalent , then watching Rafale delayed by a decade only because the company had not profited enough from the 2000 ...

f1 issue kinda influenced America . First trying to get the flow under control , with the supply of American engines to de Gaulle's export of Mirages to Israel while maintaining the facade of a weapons embargo . You see , Kaddafi to pay Israel to build jets for Turkey in the true Arabian statesmanship . Because , you know , everybody feared the MiGs those days ... After the disaster of the 67 of the Arabs the Russians had an airshow in Domedovo near Moscow , with extremely speculative impressions . Especially, the sight of the Mach 3.0 dogfighter . Add that to the less then stellar performance of the American air arms in Vietnam . Mix with the thing that we are supposed to be driven out of NATO , we should be denied the MiGs as long as possible . Spoiling of Kaddafi by the West reaches new heights . All cool as long as he doesn't go and buy a couple of hundred MiGs for Turkey .

sure , ı will be here to tell what the USAF was thinking when it ordered the LWF competition of 1970s . Extremely capable close in dogfighters with basically no radar capabilty to save weight , while their "supposed" theatre of operations was Central Europe , where it's possible to have a cloudless sky at least three days a year . And no issues at all , now that am pretty sure that they would import the entire carrot production of Turkey when our time came . Leaving none for the damned Turkish pilots .


and of course the Fundamentalists are far smarter than they are credited to be . When one reads an issue from the 1970s one can easily see that they would refuse selling F-16s to us , you know the anti-Turkish thing , but them in the US Senate denying A-10s to Israel , while ı have encountering the word "Lobby" ever since ı have been able read foreign news section on a newspaper ? Oh , simply a monopoly affair ; A-10s for USAF have been funded , the force structure requires them to be present but exports of the same would make their maker stronger hence harder to be knocked of the game . True Christians to have all the guns when Jesus arrives , if you know what ı mean .

and then the amazing thing that we have been actually buying Starfighters in the 1970s ... Not dumped by more affluent NATO members who went on to better things . But paying money , 75 000 dollars . True , far cheaper than the then going price of 2 to 4 millions for a brand new F-104 . Which we had from the Italians , some two squadrons of the 'S , which themselves were the last to retire almost in the 21s Century . Reportedly paid by Libya . Smoking gun ? Of course not , Kaddafi was also busy donating some F-5s to Greece for the training assistance they had provided . See , Kaddafi was never a Turkish puppet . Not even claimed to be one , but a partner that would get his money's worth , honest deal and no slaves . So , the airbase in Mürted was finished in 1963ish and brand new Gs were put in it as US Military aid , because the 104 was an awesome nuke delivery vehicle , low RCS , passable avionics , superbly fast at low level and their limited numbers would suffice to keep more truer Kemalists out , especially of command positions in time , now that they lacked prestigious posts on the way and the like . And ? Because stuff might happen and despite the cries of anguish at buying tired old airframes , politicians are filling the tables of equipment and calling for other kinds of factories . That would do more to fill their pockets and not as a vanguard role as in creating a high tech workforce and institutionalized knowledge . Erbakan to the fore , creating new factories whereever he goes . Once after the ground breaking ceremony of one such "Heavy Industry" facility , one CHP MP broke into the site and put the entire "construction" to the back of his car and drove it all the way to the Parliament . As the whole effort was limited to a or two wheelbarrows of cement . With Erbakan meanwhile promising a hundred thousand planes and a hundred thousand tanks . Makes it double galling when people had been to Europe a couple of years back to beg for Starfighter spares , to be paid for in true market rates and finding no sellers .

the guy who wrote that news item about purchases at 75 000 each can not hide his disbelief at the news that there's stern resistance at the purchases , because let me see , there will be a F-5E co-production facility in Ankara in the 1980s and it will progress onto the F-5G as soon as it's cleared for production . At the time this is still not the F-20 but a silly little plane that won't scare Americans in no possible way , but can be used to put bombs or missiles on anyone asking for it . And as things go in circles as ever , there is the whole "Me! Me!" crowd . At least South Koreans appear to be more industrialised than Turkey when they rush this F-5E facility , with which they will be stuck with to produce the last F-5s . Taiwan suffering from the general acceptance of the Reds as the true China ends up with purchases of tons of F-5E and the development and stuff of the Ching Kou or however that's spelled , you know after grabbing the engines and what not for themselves . But the best must be the poor Egyptians in '82 . Who are surrounded by enemies all around and will use the Western military aid and all that to induct both Mirage 2000 and F-16s as fighter /interceptors and F-5G as CAS planes . To replace MiG-17 . To be produced in a factory in Egypt . Not particularly aware that America pushed them to provoke Kaddafi , even when he was really easy to provoke and the two countries fought a tiny little border war to make it entirely impossible for Egypt to have that factory . Anyhow , the silly little plane thing was marred by the USN anyhow , who was bent on a "Freedom Tiger! Freedom Tiger!" obsession in a bid to decrease its F-18 expenditure . In the sense USAF hated F-16 but allowed to proceed because the PW engine was also used in the F-15 and every F-16 sold brought down the unit cost of engines hence the price tag on the F-15 . USN wanted to have same in relation to the GE 404 engine on the F-18 . Exports then becoming a battleground for each service and in the end nobody could have a F-20 ... But we had a F-16 factory , with a non PW engine because the guaranteed monopoly made PW lazy . Defence sector is so much fun when nobody loves you and everybody hates you .

a break to ease reading and you should have been warned long ago that reading r16 is so unrewarding .

Spoiler :

ı don't really know why ı still consider Air International the pinnacle of aviation magazines , even if back in the days when Mike Spick was a regular , Airforces Monthly would offer stiff competition . You know , for this wannabe engineer , 3 or 4 pages of stuff in layman terms was spectacular . When they both came under the same publisher it simply made me jump the jump and get subscriptions for both . Though am pretty sure the turn off was related to the greatest thing evah ; ı still remember the inpatience in me , attempting to read that one comparing Phantom to F-35 , struggling to make it to the end of the article . Must be over 30 at the time , accepting that there was no way ı would ever be that aircraft engineer that ı should /could have been and that magazine ı spent so much money on practically begs to be torn apart ...

and yet whenever ı pick up one , the affection comes back . At least as long as it doesn't involve any reference to anything post 2000 . It was probably the mix , modern planes of 1980-90s , a bit of industry news , the old plane section that almost never failed , the modelling part with news of kits of ı could never build anyhow and nothing on plane spotting . This last always made me feel good about myself , ı was a loser allright , but at least not that bad ... Air International was impartial , balanced , taught you stuff . It's perhaps the very first issue ı probably saw . And immediately bought -it laying there on the ground as seconhand . Think it had MiG-29 after its first Farnborough and Amiot 143 in the very same magazine . Read intensively , repeatedly from front cover to the rear and what a revelation , says even positive things about Russians ! Even a reference to the heroism of the French with no sarcasm !


that impartiality thing has stayed with me forever . ı simply laughed at myself to discover ı was wrong about that , too ... For it must be the KGB that released some old copies over the web , to sabotage the awesome QFX ... Them first two really smell like a passionate plea for the UK industry to wake up , for F-16 is comin' and will eat everyone for lunch . Or rather not . Reading fast requires rapid eye movement , seeing only some and disregarding the rest . Which , especially in my case can lead to massive blunders . Was once reading a pamphlet type of book on armour and ı thought ı had seen first available-in-print evidence of Germans developing 90 ton tanks in 1939 . Had ı been properly slow , ı would have seen ı had ignored a whole paragraph and it was actually 1942 , eventually Ferdinand Porche's Elephant coming at an extremely light 70 tons . Careful reading likewise provides merely paltry references that would never hold in court . Afterall Model 401 makes it apperance only in December '72 where we learn GD set out "to provide the Air Force with the fightingest piece of machinery anyone could design for the daylight air-to-air mission at a price low enough for the nation -if ever required- to buy in quantity" ... ı can't tell whether it was PR departments that set the engine power at 30 000 pounds or AI staff did the calculations on their own to see whether the intake could really feed an 1000 cubic meters per second or whatever of airflow . Probably it's the PR departments , now that the figures tend to suggest a PW model that didn't exist until Block 52 and stuff .

as per the usual r16 fare , you won't see this anywhere else , but one can hypothesise that a Spey powered British dogfighter for export was the prime motive of that magazine at its inception . With Roy Braybrook as a prime participant . This guy is an awesome writer , maybe less in education value when compared to Spick , and certainly less in venom in view of Gunston but you can really enjoy his work . Was also a plane designer , but apparently all his team leaderships led nowhere ever . This is why Pakistani Sabre successes against Indian Hunters can be covered in a British magazine , for you know , Braybrook actually did his bit on the Hunter's design . Everybody knows Spey will be lower powered than what might come out of US or eventually Russia but they are aiming for people who are slow , especially in mind . Nothing plenty of wing area can not solve then ... Not in the same issue , but you can read numbers , terrifiying numbers . The Warsaw Pact has X amount of fighters in the Central Front . Allright , but when it comes to SouthEast Europe , it is the number of airfields that can house Y amount of fighters , because Z , the number of actually present Commie planes , is nowhere near the 5 to 6:1 ratio that might terrify those who hold the purse strings in Washington who are then to stop sabotaging Turkish things . For you know , if a war comes not even F-14s will love it over the Med . If them Commie hordes overcome the closest threat . Love Braybrook's understatement when he discusses the F-16 with Hillaker , the "father" of the F-16, accuses some competitor company attempting to falsify wind tunnel data to win the competition in article a decade later .

and even Braybrook plays the full spec Russkie game . That's a thing done regularly in the Cold War , bloating the threat assesment to such extremes that anything can be justified when it comes to "Defence" expenditure . The Russians have a "Frontal" thrust rating . An emergency option , your engine will produce much more power but you either run out of fuel before returning to base or it blows your plane up in short order anyhow . A Polish trainee pilot somehow managed to do it and his Fishbed reached Mach 2.45 or thereabouts . No single reference book ever lists MiG-21 at such a speed , possibly because the Polish guy had to eject as he ran out of fuel as he couldn't make the engine rev down . To what end ? In war games and the like 10% of Russian pilots were eventually "expected" to make ramming attacks . Made them far more dangerous , for as long as you weren't caught napping Commie weapon systems were poor and unlikely to cause much damage . While a suicidal Fishbed was far too much kinetic energy if it ever made contact . The TARAN rate was up to 20% in simulations that involved nukes . Etc , etc and bingo the Braybrook article where he ignores the tiny inlets of the "Su-21" and credits the Flagon with 10 ton engines . Which then makes it a Mach 2.8 plane that can cruise at Mach 2.0 . You know better than a F-22 . Which is like 4 decades junior . Fast forward a decade and 1988 and Air International has a specific Su-15 article that says anyone could see the inlets were so tiny that massflow to the engines would be limited hence there was no way that the Russians could have stuck a twin 10 ton assembly .

with such quality and reputation and just a little amount of dirty tricks and never shy of supporting the British industry as long as it wouldn't be an outright lie , AI strived . The new boys on the block , on the other hand , take every single person as a sucker and allow a PR campaign that's played only to the Turkish market that there are no strings attached and they will make a plane for Turkey which even London would buy for its own use . When advised to take it easy , all they know is "Shut him up!" Stay assured it won't be funny .

so , an extremely short version of why there's no sympathy for Qatar and its ilk . Who are extremely heroic when paying others to fight but can not dare releasing their finest on each other , because the standart they have established is "assault before death" . The Qataris are even fortunate that if Mrs. Rodham was in charge she would be decisive and commited already along the lines of came-saw-died .

 

[Synobun]

Moderator Action: The spamming is going to stop. If nobody's responded to your original point, please don't double down and post two irrelevant personal essays.

 

[r16]

fine by me . It's a pointless grinding exercise anyhow . What's the point of cheering the loss of an American UAV , hoping that it will act as a brake the new ISIL tradition or something of running into hostage situations and the like in Turkish restaurants ? After their terrorist attacks ... Or ranting that the anniversary of the '99 earthquake saw a Goverment Minister replaced for too much blatant placing of his congregation's adherents into State positions declaring planning is nothing , but doing is everything . Or the Last Prime Minister declaring they will henceforth build horizontally instead of vertically , meaning high rises that increase population density and make a mess when the buildings fall on each other and the like . Just as Opposition claiming the last area reserved for emergency services on the Asian side of Bosphorus has given to the foundation of the PM's son for constructing doermitories . Or the Last Prime Minister ranting about the threat of the "Turkish" used on the web and all those State institutions suddenly declaring studies to remedy that , you know , by creating equivalents . Which was much mocked in recent past , by the Last Prime Minister's prime duty is to be an equivalent of Mustafa Kemal as he now lives in the housing formerly reserved for the Presidents of the Republic . While ranting takes some hurt out of me , what does that achieve ? Nothing .

not even the Qataris , too . Voice of Russia , attempting to provoke or something , says Merkel would abolish the Customs Union entirely . The truth seems to be she won't start the negotiations to correct the imbalances . You know , as said in the crisis between Netherlands and the like . Looking forward to the end of summer holidays and return of their editorial staff . And while this happens the New in Turkey naturally says they are heroic and the Customs Union was suggested by the Europeans .Which is true , it prevents Turkey from making useful deals in trade and tandems this country to the EU in anything they do , to the detriment of this country . And this is practically why this thread exists , because "Free Markets" run on "confidence" and the sham economy of New Turkey depends on the well being of Qatar and it will be "disaster" if anything happens to Qatar and nobody should talk against "status quo" . And the reason why this thread lasts so many months because there's a general mocking of the "threat" and the silly Turks can not still see . And the like . Silly , stupid and while ı look like looking for it , please keep this last on for it might save the poor Qataris from their unjust suffering , for ı don't think there is anything irrelevant . Especially the ease of mind against the existantial threat of the "economic crisis" , the one that's has been comin' for a decade . No such thing will happen , nor anything to Qatar , because that would hurt the New Turkey as America nears or something its designs for a Kurdish nation state . See , let's liberate the poor Qataris from this unjust yoke , which doesn't exist anyhow .

if it's any help maybe ı should remember of how ı once talked of planting some other flag , mostly red on Reichstag , or the time Lockmart didn't like a discussion of the Jewish problem in the 19th Century .

 

[Takhisis]

tl;dr: please stop killing discussion in the thread.

 

[red_elk]

Meanwhle in Syria...

Caliphate is collapsing.

 

[Takhisis]

The red is government forces, I assume?

 

[red_elk]

Yes, reds are the good guys, as always.

 

[MilesGregarius]

Yes, reds are the good guys, as always.

Red states?

 

[red_elk]

Red states?

Russians are red
Americans are blue
ISIS is gray
Should be obvious to you.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Better Red than Dead!

 

[Takhisis]

Yes, reds are the good guys, as always.

Save the planet - go green.

 

[r16]

still legally on the first page when ı opened it ... Nothing much to report . Except the Defence Minister of poor oppressed Qatar was in Ankara and he peacefully declared they had no intention of sending troops to Syria . Figures . Either they don't have troops to send (you know being a dot on the map) or more realistically they don't feel they can use their other troops , the Army of Petrol . Not least because this pro-Goverment hero dude general of the Disgrace of July 15th was like totally demoted , apparently on charges of meeting with an American General before cutting short the heroic Euprates Shield Operation . Don't know why the Goverment did not order him to go on and on ...

the German thing apparently begins to cause some unease in smarties . There have been hate calls to the dentist wife of the German Foreign Minister , some dudes have burned the car of some German MP and oh my , the talk tough show of German politicians cause tiny ripples . We had this spectacular speech by this head scarved journo , some icon of the Ergenekon conspiracies and the like that the only thing New Turkey wants is equality and why the Germans are so tough . The only thing Germans wanted from the New Turkey was that all Turks dead ; and it doesn't look like that has happened , right ? But , no stupid Germany can not see it . That it can rule the world as a vassal of New Turkey !

but then this is standart , nothing to look at . What's better is of course the Voice of Russia . After the expected thing on the Quarter or 1/8 White Wabbit's visit to Ankara along the lines of "Hi,hi,hi Anıtkabir'i ziyaret etmedi." they even have dudes that declare Russia , Germany and Turkey can be together in a confederal structure . ı can understand people (academicians and the like) not having a clue about what they are talking , but one would expect Moscow to be really capable of avoiding causing anger and the like . How many times do ı have to say there are excessive amounts tank divisions in reserve and we do not like fear winter , mud and whatever ?

Moderator Action: All posts on CFC must be entirely in English or have a translation clearly provided. Any further lapses will be deleted. ~ Arakhor
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[r16]

the US supports the Counter-Revolution to re-arrange the Middle East to a benefit of a country that might be easy to guess and Gulf Arabs have no issues with that as long as they get to control all the "Muslims" that will survive the re-structuring . Hence , US dignitaries visiting Turkey cite timing issues and do not pay "respects" as "we" might have been expected to visit the Unknown Soldier in some country and lay a bocquet of flowers . Not me , considering am nothing . So , when this happens and Mattis avoids Anıtkabir , this programmer on the Voice of Russia is almost laughing that it didn't ; this proves America does not respect the traditions of the now dead Republic and we should all join hands with Putin's Russia . It's real , as much as Moscow wants to pull Berlin out of the influence of the Anglosaxons , while the Merkel doesn't think that even one bit and supports the Counter-Revolution in her own way ...

Spoiler :

yay , the evil front against poor Qatar is utterly cracked by the arrest of 5 hackers in Turkey, their links to Congregation is investigated . Unable to explain what this means , are Qataris moving around now that they gave up picking on the evil Emirates , who are like bigger ? Or are they playing the Emirates game of blaiming the Turks ? Like these idiot jihadists caught trying to blow up a plane in Australia , with stuff mailed from Turkey , you know , naturally and of course . Australia apparently has started vetting Turkish paasangers ; with a guy supposedly the 40th most travelled man on earth declined entry to planes at airports and like spending a week waiting for connections and the like . Can't say anything about whether New Turkey will teach Australians their place come April 2018 or in case they can't the 40th most travelled guy's connections to the Congregation discovered .


for it happens . A lot . The seperatists try to infiltrate the Black Sea , now for years . When we are dead , there will be an attempt for an Armenia and with so many "heartlands" assigned to 'stan , obviously it will be a three way battle between the Armenians , Kurds and the Pontus loving Greeks , who can't help it even now as the tourism in the Aegean islands is practically run for the Turkish "trade" . Expect Armenians massacred for real . And now for years the Army of Petrol has failed to insert teams into areas of this country of ours , with like number of "endemic" Kurds down to 0 ... and need local guides . Ah yeah ... More yeahs in that the locals refuse to be the local guides , finding 1300 liras of payment not enough . When it comes to talking , they would be all ready in 15 seconds to genocide all enemies of Turkey , but then am not surprised . Finally they find a 15 years old , the patrol gets ambushed , for these seperatists would be handpicked by the US advisors who now know more than many . The kid dies ; and the expected heroism gushes out of every pore of the media . Wait , his mother is interviewed and while she is ready for her son to be a martyr at 20 , she is still sentimental as mothers are ought to be and her son should not have been put in harm's way . Turns it into a negative for the Goverment , just as they have done spectacularly good for the Italian companies . Turkey is supposed to produce 75% of the global hazelnut output and some farmer calculates that his 10 000 square meters field will yield him about 4000 liras , while his expenditures will be around 4130 . Ah do not wonder , they will vote for the A-K-P in the next election again ; as proven by history . The other parties ain't no patriots , man ! But Party takes no chances . Yes , you guessed correctly ! The Jandarma Lieutenant that sent out the patrol is now arrested as a Congregation member .

there's no end to traitors , ever . Thousands sacked for some guy tipped without giving his name . And all the Leftists were fired from any posts they had for they were said to be cryptos . And all the posts filled by "Muslims" who are otherwise unqualified ? Even that one is bettered . You are some university guy /gal who spent 20-30 years opposing the Congregation and yet fired for being one ? Down to selling lemons at the marketplace ? Oh , now you can have a teaching job , through the benevolent mercy of the Party . Not your old office , not even your old university though ... For a "Muslim" took that already . All available is a place at those new ones established after 2006 , hence all of them formerly of Congregation , hence now owned by the Party as "plunder" and like totally empty as no sane parent will sent his/her kid to an enemy facility , as they were listed night after day . No sane academician will apply for work there , too . People are in jail or have lost their jobs for depositing money in a Congregation bank , because the State once made it an agency for paying traffic fines , you never know what might come up when some "Muslim" needs another thing practically free . You are really starving or need 5 years of extra work to retire with health care benefits and the like ? You may be compelled to take the offer ? Is there an end to this , you CFC forum member might as well be asking , will this rant ever end ? What ? Are you a bigger fool than r16 ? For it doesn't end here ! Because , after all that stuff outlined above , you can't apply for work in the cities of Istanbul , Ankara and Izmir and have to take positions elsewhere in the country . For "Muslims" in the rural universities all came and took all the places in the big three and all the rural posts are empty and local Party bosses need you in place to make money for the local economy , so that the locals can clap the hands (when they are not acting the three monkeys) and make proud claims for the never ending economic miracle and silently convince you that the Counter-Revolution is good , necessary and acceptable .

on a positive note , New Turkey is winning the Oscar this year . Can't tell how , ı was surfing the channels at the time . Maybe it's because of North Korea because the movie is about the 1950-53 affair . Maybe , just maybe , Eric Roberts plays an American General . Or maybe , Israel is expected to make amends after its unjustices against New Turkey , because ı had this spectacle of this "Muslim" channel asking this most pertinent question of whether New Turkey ever dallied and rejected when the Israelis wanted to buy stolen Iraqi oil from Kerkük ?

 

[Hrothbern]

the US supports the Counter-Revolution to re-arrange the Middle East to a benefit of a country that might be easy to guess and Gulf Arabs have no issues with that as long as they get to control all the "Muslims" that will survive the re-structuring . Hence , US dignitaries visiting Turkey cite timing issues and do not pay "respects" as "we" might have been expected to visit the Unknown Soldier in some country and lay a bocquet of flowers . Not me , considering am nothing . So , when this happens and Mattis avoids Anıtkabir , this programmer on the Voice of Russia is almost laughing that it didn't ; this proves America does not respect the traditions of the now dead Republic and we should all join hands with Putin's Russia . It's real , as much as Moscow wants to pull Berlin out of the influence of the Anglosaxons , while the Merkel doesn't think that even one bit and supports the Counter-Revolution in her own way ...

Spoiler :

yay , the evil front against poor Qatar is utterly cracked by the arrest of 5 hackers in Turkey, their links to Congregation is investigated . Unable to explain what this means , are Qataris moving around now that they gave up picking on the evil Emirates , who are like bigger ? Or are they playing the Emirates game of blaiming the Turks ? Like these idiot jihadists caught trying to blow up a plane in Australia , with stuff mailed from Turkey , you know , naturally and of course . Australia apparently has started vetting Turkish paasangers ; with a guy supposedly the 40th most travelled man on earth declined entry to planes at airports and like spending a week waiting for connections and the like . Can't say anything about whether New Turkey will teach Australians their place come April 2018 or in case they can't the 40th most travelled guy's connections to the Congregation discovered .


for it happens . A lot . The seperatists try to infiltrate the Black Sea , now for years . When we are dead , there will be an attempt for an Armenia and with so many "heartlands" assigned to 'stan , obviously it will be a three way battle between the Armenians , Kurds and the Pontus loving Greeks , who can't help it even now as the tourism in the Aegean islands is practically run for the Turkish "trade" . Expect Armenians massacred for real . And now for years the Army of Petrol has failed to insert teams into areas of this country of ours , with like number of "endemic" Kurds down to 0 ... and need local guides . Ah yeah ... More yeahs in that the locals refuse to be the local guides , finding 1300 liras of payment not enough . When it comes to talking , they would be all ready in 15 seconds to genocide all enemies of Turkey , but then am not surprised . Finally they find a 15 years old , the patrol gets ambushed , for these seperatists would be handpicked by the US advisors who now know more than many . The kid dies ; and the expected heroism gushes out of every pore of the media . Wait , his mother is interviewed and while she is ready for her son to be a martyr at 20 , she is still sentimental as mothers are ought to be and her son should not have been put in harm's way . Turns it into a negative for the Goverment , just as they have done spectacularly good for the Italian companies . Turkey is supposed to produce 75% of the global hazelnut output and some farmer calculates that his 10 000 square meters field will yield him about 4000 liras , while his expenditures will be around 4130 . Ah do not wonder , they will vote for the A-K-P in the next election again ; as proven by history . The other parties ain't no patriots , man ! But Party takes no chances . Yes , you guessed correctly ! The Jandarma Lieutenant that sent out the patrol is now arrested as a Congregation member .

there's no end to traitors , ever . Thousands sacked for some guy tipped without giving his name . And all the Leftists were fired from any posts they had for they were said to be cryptos . And all the posts filled by "Muslims" who are otherwise unqualified ? Even that one is bettered . You are some university guy /gal who spent 20-30 years opposing the Congregation and yet fired for being one ? Down to selling lemons at the marketplace ? Oh , now you can have a teaching job , through the benevolent mercy of the Party . Not your old office , not even your old university though ... For a "Muslim" took that already . All available is a place at those new ones established after 2006 , hence all of them formerly of Congregation , hence now owned by the Party as "plunder" and like totally empty as no sane parent will sent his/her kid to an enemy facility , as they were listed night after day . No sane academician will apply for work there , too . People are in jail or have lost their jobs for depositing money in a Congregation bank , because the State once made it an agency for paying traffic fines , you never know what might come up when some "Muslim" needs another thing practically free . You are really starving or need 5 years of extra work to retire with health care benefits and the like ? You may be compelled to take the offer ? Is there an end to this , you CFC forum member might as well be asking , will this rant ever end ? What ? Are you a bigger fool than r16 ? For it doesn't end here ! Because , after all that stuff outlined above , you can't apply for work in the cities of Istanbul , Ankara and Izmir and have to take positions elsewhere in the country . For "Muslims" in the rural universities all came and took all the places in the big three and all the rural posts are empty and local Party bosses need you in place to make money for the local economy , so that the locals can clap the hands (when they are not acting the three monkeys) and make proud claims for the never ending economic miracle and silently convince you that the Counter-Revolution is good , necessary and acceptable .

on a positive note , New Turkey is winning the Oscar this year . Can't tell how , ı was surfing the channels at the time . Maybe it's because of North Korea because the movie is about the 1950-53 affair . Maybe , just maybe , Eric Roberts plays an American General . Or maybe , Israel is expected to make amends after its unjustices against New Turkey , because ı had this spectacle of this "Muslim" channel asking this most pertinent question of whether New Turkey ever dallied and rejected when the Israelis wanted to buy stolen Iraqi oil from Kerkük ?

Do you think there is any love in any of the Arabian nations and the nearby Asian nations for Turkey ?
What will happen with the global interest in these desert areras when the fossil energy is marginalised by renewables in a couple of decades and the sun is burning the crops from the fields ? In the Turkey deserts as well. And what trade interest for Turkey is left when the money is low in these countries.
And what is Russia currently more than a political stable nation with a strong military ? With for Turkey some tourism income.
What will happen with the Turkey economy when the more than 6,000 German companies, with many automotive industry have stopped investing and the outsourcing to a political unstable low labor cost country has evaporated anyway in a decade because all that is sourced back into Germany to keep the employment in their own companies when electrical cars do need far less components and labor.

Turkey will be left in the course of a couple of decades as an overpopulous country with as selling point her geography alliance to the big three powers. Trusting nobody, trusted by nobody, used by everybody.

Sounds like a great geopolitical position to me.

 

[r16]

sorry for the fact that ı am so much given to empty rant . Sincerely hope at least ı am entertaining .

yet another proof for this idiotic poster that the Arabian Springs are seriously mixed up and all end upon the same in/out boxes on the same table . Syria seems an unnecessary burden in the face of ongoing problems - especially in Libya - and pronto the Rebels capture Brega with NATO air support . You are kidding me , right ?

regarding the humanitarian catastrophe , it seems strategy sites are full of pro-democracy demonstrators on how they killed 46 of the monkeys in return for two heroes and countries south of Syria are full of fire in the belly to bring justice to ... We even hear the Saudi King is now the "Messenger of God " . Does mainstream Western media report such things ? Okay , now that they have God on their side , nobody needs the stinking Turkish army .

does mainstream Western media report such things ? Our surely does not , not even the anti Goverment types . And the army ? Let me see , last night a gas pipeline was blown up and in another province , the seperatists had road blocks where they confiscated ID cards . You know it is a different country now . All within a kilometre of military outposts . Patrolling in the foreign country is now reported to be frowned upon as it leads to clashes . And Army must surely be needed elsewhere .

what do ı do ? Yeah , what do ı do ? Hadn't ı been banned from strategy sites , ı would have been in a beautiful demonstration of my Schizoid personality . Banging the hairy chest test and posting a thread named Test it again Sam . Reporting how it got the good old phaser on the lips and all . Come on uncle we have a space-battle to fight , somewhere between 2030 and 2050 .

western media reports , the mighty Tımes itself , that we don't shy from using military power , just like 1999 . But my dear lords in the British decision making process , you are surely mistaken by the date . In 1999 , the Syrians had already kicked out the seperatist leader and the plans were only against Greece and the residence of the D'Allema , the Italian PM . Whatever , we are supposed to have given 20days or so to the Syrians to end their criminal acts . Yeah , indeed the long stated ideal of Turkey becoming the little America has been realised , we wait the end of Ramadan to invade Arab countries . Let the friends of US do it by themselves .

Spoiler :

HO HO HELL NO

WE WON'T GO

yeah , ı think planning for BOP is now a court martial offense .

back from the days when the future was assured , seperatists having full blown control over Turkish territory because America talked both sides into sharing the Middle East , Qatar having mighty powers and so on . If one checks the thread it will be possible to see that it did go a good way to help on my quest to gain a dozen thousand LOLs and WHAT?s . Say , page 12 has all that discussion of the maps .

ı is ı ... And you know , as a joke and stuff , ı claim Hillary Rodham pressured the Forum to change into Xenforo to make my old posts unreadable . Of course no obligation whatsoever to believe that . And BOP is the Greater Middle East Initiative , the one Condileeza Rice announced in the bid to change borders in 23 or 28 countries . And yes , 500 000 deaths .


elsewhere on the world the recurring lack of success of the US Destroyers naturally creates threads and one post elsewhere on the web has this "accusatory" tone . As computer hacking is so easy that even the stinking Turks can do it . To crash two Predator drones within 12 hours or so . Had BAe had not me banned from there ı would take this indeed to elsewhere , but as the page 10 of the Libya thread proves America intends to fight a space battle with the "Neo Ottomanist" state , meaning whatever the New Turkey is supposed to be yet transformed into . In 2030 to 2050 'cuz Turks are indeed idiots . Basically of the premise that Christian Fundamentalists are fed up with God and create an Antechrist under their bidding but you just didn't read that , anywhere , especially on this page , and particularly in this sentence .


meanwhile yours idiotly walks and stuff and overhears a conversation that some guy snickers at today , the 30th of August , the defeat of the Greeks in their little Asia Minor disaster . Certainly not comparable to the Friday , the "Kurban Bayramı" , the one Muslims complete Haj if in Mekke and still offer their sacrifises on other places on the planet . Then the hubris takes over , the both "Bayrams" belong to the Muslims . This is a political ploy much employed by the Party , they claim respect as long as they are not powerful enough . And TV debates are full of people like this guy on last night . Istanbul was an imperial city for so long , anyone who has Istanbul has to act imperially . All of this is tolerated by the West , because , you know , the God is supposed to come down and with North Korea my dear poor Americans are totally doubtful about the question whether Jesus loves 'em ... Hence , a country of loudmouths and the like , that will be "easy" .

and let's just kill the idea of twin Predator killing . The Journo who would prosper under Goebbels has it all . Americans have a right to fly armed drones in this country because they have gone to the terrorists and had confirmation that the threat to them is going on . This comes at a time when Americans have banned the Pakistanis from training more F-16 pilots for the aerial branch of the Army of Petrol and refusing to send instructors here . It can only happen at Luke and places like that and Party smells the Congregation will steal this generation , too . ı have these little escapades of military jets buzzing the area for no reason , lowering one wing to imply they were watching and am sooooo confident that there is still air power to take me out and stuff . So the drone patrols can be only for the locals , who apparently try their hands at calling names at American diplomats , because like everybody can do .

if confusing and irritating , you can write off any part you like as filler .

in short ? We are extremely confident we will survive . If America is that dumb , for starters ...

Moderator Action: You've been given multiple opportunities to stop spamming. This has got to stop. Future spam posts will be infracted on an individual basis. - Vincour
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[red_elk]

And what is Russia currently more than a political stable nation with a strong military ? With for Turkey some tourism income.

Russia won't ally with Turkey in foreseeable future anyway. There is some rapproachement at this moment, which caused by Erdogan's discontent about US and EU, but strategically the two countries are adversaries and will stay so. Iran, on the other hand, may join the SCO.