Erdogan threatens to send refugees to EU as NATO steps in
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has threatened to send the millions of refugees in Turkey to EU member states, as NATO pledged to deploy ships to the Aegean Sea to ease the migrant crisis.
Erdogan stepped up his denunciations of Western policy on migrants in a speech in Ankara, confirming he had threatened EU leaders at a summit meeting in November that Turkey could say "goodbye" to the refugees.
Alarm is growing in EU capitals that thousands of migrants are still crossing the Aegean daily from Turkey after over a million made the perilous journey last year.
NATO has agreed to send a naval group to the Aegean to crack down on people-smugglers feeding the influx of migrants, while Greece is considering sending anyone picked up in the waters back to Turkey.
You think an Islamist Turk leader, currently involved in Syria's civil war, currently trading with ISIS through back channels...making threats against the West, flooding it with refugees, you think this normal Aea?
Turkey is prepared to “open the gates” and allow hundreds of thousands of refugees on its soil into Europe
In a combative address in Ankara, he said the Turkish government was being taken for “idiots” by Brussels and insisted he was “proud” of leak minutes of a high-level meeting with EU leaders, in which he had threatened to flood Europe with refugees.
It came as Nato deployed a taskforce of battleships to the Greek coast to collect intelligence and, for the first time, return any stranded refugee vessels they intercept directly back Turkey. Royal Navy vessels could join the force, the Defence Secretary indicated.
Under a now unravelling “dirty deal” organised by the European Union’s leadership and backed by the British government, Mr Erdogan was to be offered €3 billion in aid, in exchange for halting the flow of boats.
and here's a quote
The rift between Turkey and the U.S. widened late Tuesday when Ankara summoned the American ambassador, John Bass, to protest remarks by a State Department spokesman who said Washington does not consider Syria's Kurdish Democracy Union Party (PYD) a terrorist organization.
and more here
US Ambassador to NATO Douglas Lute is playing down the Turkish president’s ultimatum, while underlining the importance of the Syrian Kurdish groups.
“These are not new concerns with regard to US contact and US support for the Syrian Kurdish groups,” he said. “And of course the visit that you are referring took place into the town of Kobani, which of course was largely freed from ISIL control because of the effective fighting of those Syrian Kurdish groups.”
With Ankara providing airbases for US-led operations against Islamic State, Washington is having to perform a delicate balancing act over its support for Syrian Kurdish groups.
In a move that will further inflame relations, Greece on Thursday confirmed it wants Turkey declared as a "safe third country" - a move that would allow it to send back asylum seekers picked up in the Aegean.
They're shooting themselves in the foot. Illegal immigration is actually a huge economic boon. Illegal immigrants have to work quite hard, often for very little and scarcely benefit from the taxes they pay.
So if they were actually self-interested, they'd look away.
A but outdated. NATO has just agreed to aid in surveying (not surveillance) Mediterranean waters. Also, the EU has agreed with Turkey on financial aid - seeing as Turkey currently takes care of the bulk of refugees, even though it's not a EU member.
Turkey's foreign minister, on a tour de l'Europe, mentioned such aid is coming forward dripwise.
Just to provide some context.
Also, PM Erdogan is not known for his delicate opinions. Add a few grains of salt, view context, no need for panic - unless you call yourself MilitantSecular of course. In which case you are in need of a daily panic shot, apparently.
Oh, and of course Mr Erdogan is not taking part in a 'debate'. He's sending some political signals with regards to the EU.
A but outdated. NATO has just agreed to aid in surveying (not surveillance) Mediterranean waters. Also, the EU has agreed with Turkey on financial aid - seeing as Turkey currently takes care of the bulk of refugees, even though it's not a EU member.
Turkey's foreign minister, on a tour de l'Europe, mentioned such aid is coming forward dripwise.
Just to provide some context.
Also, PM Erdogan is not known for his delicate opinions. Add a few grains of salt, view context, no need for panic - unless you call yourself MilitantSecular of course. In which case you are in need of a daily panic shot, apparently.
Oh, and of course Mr Erdogan is not taking part in a 'debate'. He's sending some political signals with regards to the EU.
I seen a clip some months back from Admiral James A. “Ace” Lyons speaking with Kerry, I originally dismissed it as some rightwing military guy bashing Obama's policy while Kerry almost ducked his head in shame but now I'm not so sure, I think there might be some truth to what Lyons says
Retired 4-Star U.S. Navy Admiral James A. “Ace” Lyons
I don't buy any of the birther stuff or Obama is a muslim nonsense but I do think he lacks historical vision and lacks foreign policy, and probably a weakness is from his time overseas as a kid he got this pot smoking hippie outdated version of the Islamic world, he still thinks the place lovely like a tourist resort in Indonesia before the Bali bombers or like Lebanon was once the Paris of the Middle East...when Obama looks to the Middle East maybe his eyes still see that child-like fantasy
The Elites the big companies, the bankers and all these guys picked Obama, a Black political dude with a Muslim middle name ' Hussein' to go out, be happy, hold hands with the Muslims, make the Islamists chill out, drink coffee with them smoke stuff, flowers, hold hands....they funded his Presidential Election and thought Obama all guy or all peoples with social experience from Hawaii to Chicago would bring peace to the Middle East
Obama was all an peoples person to get all things done and boy did the elites get this wrong
Before I would have dismissed many rightwingers and conservatives but now I'm moving a little in the direction maybe even the James “Ace” Lyons school of thought
I think as you watch opinion polls Obama may finally rank with some of the worst Presidents in US History maybe not as bad as Nixon or Carter or Ford or Bush (G.W.) Jnr yet...but yeah I think his finally approval ratings will be pretty bad.
the context is that Ankara wants to create refugee camps inside Syrian soil , that will justify Turkish military presence , to form a barrier on the Turkish free oil /gas pipelines . Considering the so brilliant so glorious proposal to use the Kurds as a proxy to steal some Iraqi oil and stuff has fallen on its backside . The world doesn't buy this , they want the refugees in so that the political debate inside Turkey will go even worse , never minding the entirely true humanitiarian concerns . So the threat to loose them all loose .
and the the thing that might not have been here is the leaking of talks between the PM and the EU officials where the EU people are reminded that they have given 400 billion Euros to Greece but not paying enough for the keep of the refugees here . Aylan Kurdi , the dead boy on the beach , as one will certainly know and remember was on the the news back then ; there was a talk of 10 to 15 000 similar cases that might have happened . Once this was leaked , by Greeks in pipeline talks with the Israelis , there's no way but going even "forward" for the New Turkey . The thread might be ignoring the early beginnings of a new Islamist movement in Turkey which the current leadership must stop by all means , including heroically talking tough on the foreigners . Otherwise it's good business . In one year the borders of a NATO member has been penetrated by 870 000 or so people with 3 to 4000 dead with an overall economic value of 2.5 billion of Euros at 3000 per head and the profits shared by the officals of the other NATO member country that sends them on .
The thing about the British is I think for the moment as a culture, they are dead in the water. They even wanted a ban on Trump and debated the damn thing at Parliment? House of Commons? British Lord Senate?...I don't know someone fill me in on the details of British politics here
and they also banned that cranky old rightwing talk show guy Michael Savage for I dunno banned him for being a Neocon or banned him from traveling because he's Conservative Jewish or a rightwinger...I'm not sure of their reasoning but he's banned from UK as if he's some kind of islamo-terrorist! The English left have totally lost their minds
Trump is the wild card, I don't support him but he must have Erdogan freaking out, the insane Turk leader shivering with islamo insanity
With Hillary you can more or less predict its going to be the same old s--- in regards to Turkey
but with a guy like Donald Trump I feel even remote the chances of him winning, he would completely freak Erdogan out
Don't know who would turn things around in England, seems 'Labour' died with the Blair invasion of Iraq...
...what else is there? I suppose its UKIP or something?
I don't think he is as stupid as you think, he knows something basic and leads in a good primitive way, he knows about nations basic ideas and islamism. Erdogan I think he is clever in his old kind of stone age bronze age way, clever caveman leading the group. He is smart-ish in his own basic religious way and he is able to maipulate the Turkish mob in some way. Erdogan has also made great effort to destroy his own police in Turkey so they don't turn on him and he has decapitated the Turkish military and put his own collar and leash on it. The Ceaușescus ended their life being destroyed by their own military, if the army had not tried and sentenced them to death for treason they would have been lynched on the streets of Bucharest, Erdogan is not in this position, not yet anyways.
Trump scares him
if you want to understand Erdogan then don't look at Turkey as Western, simply view the leader and look at him Erdogan, as an Islamist, a guy who imprisons journalists and censors, a Political back stabber, a Convict, an Imperialist, look at his Antisemitism, see a guy with Jihadi dreams of Ottoman Grandeur spreading into Syria, Iran and iraq
He is close to Muslim Brotherhood, I think once Barack Obama finishes office whatever honeymoon period he think he has with the US is going to quickly be over.
Erdogan's government has stronger ties with the Saudi and Somali governments than it does with the United States of America.
moderators are likely to have PM'ed already that necroing old threads are better avoided with opening new ones . As such one form the 2002 on how N.Korea has the bomb will lead many to suppose you are emplying scare tactics for some reason . As such Trump does not scare the PM at all , merely creating yet another propaganda avenue to use . As for primitiveness you might well be considered somewhat naive as CFC has watched the New Turkey getting away with anything . Charges of Antisemitism ? Just met the delegation from the Anti-Defamation League ; who were here to bolster the Israeli desires for a pipeline built ... Honeymoon under Barack Hussein ? You just have seen the days Ankara and Washington were equal presidents of the Greater Middle Initiative or something under Dabya . The guys you are so against are the biggest success of the Neo-cons . Barring Barack Hussein himself .
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has threatened to send the millions of refugees in Turkey to EU member states, as Nato agreed to deploy ships to the Aegean Sea to ease the migrant crisis.
In a speech in Ankara on Thursday, Erdoğan stepped up his denunciations of western policy in the refugee crisis, confirming he had threatened EU leaders at a summit meeting in November that Turkey could say “goodbye” to the refugees.
Nato launches naval patrols to return migrants to Turkey
But in a separate move, Nato agreed to send a naval group “without delay” to the Aegean to crack down on the people smugglers who have helped hundreds of thousands of migrants cross to EU territory in the last year.
Alarm is growing in EU capitals that thousands of refugees are still crossing the Aegean daily from Turkey after over a million made the perilous journey last year.
Turkey is not the only country that has large numbers of refugees.
I am not surprised that some people are upset that Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan cannot take all the refugees.
From BBC
King Abdullah of Jordan says his country is at "boiling point" because of an influx of hundreds of thousands of Syrian refugees.
Macedonia will seal its border completely from all refugees and migrants
Macedonia is a small, relatively conservative and family-oriented country (regardless of ethnicity). Foreign diplomats have mistakenly assumed that their ability to turn people against each other based on political differences gives them similar superpowers across all levels of society. However, Macedonians will not accept participation in any adventures that could compromise their family and national security.
This is what the Germans, EU and UNHCR failed to understand when thinking they could bribe the country’s leaders into accepting 30,000 refugees in camps. This opposition was reiterated on 10 February by Foreign Minister Nikola Poposki, who promised that Macedonia will “not turn into a refugee camp.”
Most fundamentally, regarding policy, Macedonian leaders know that Germany and the EU cannot even guarantee any migration deals they may reach- whether for Macedonia or anyone else. This is because everything ultimately depends on their own ability to negotiate with Turkish President Erdoğan, who can open the floodgates of migrants that would totally destabilize Europe whenever he chooses.
Being thus the most powerful man in Europe for the foreseeable future, Erdoğan should enjoy pressing his advantage to extract whatever financial and policy concessions possible in the months ahead. Erdoğan has considerable interests in Syria, where a multi-actor invasion seems more and more likely, meaning a greater concentration of refugees heading north in months ahead.
Macedonia is thus aware of this fundamental geopolitical reality and wants to avoid becoming collateral damage in this battle between today’s Great Powers.
Germany’s Double Game
International media has recently been reporting on the second layer of fencing Macedonia has started putting up along the southern border. This activity has angered Greek officials who, informed sources tell us, complained about it privately to Germany. Their unholy alliance owes to Greece’s (quite understandable) desire to pass on migrants arriving from Turkey as soon as possible, and Germany’s (less understandable) desire to keep taking them, as well as the whole euro-bailout Imbroglio in which the two countries are eternally entwined. At the same time, however, Germany has been publicly talking about the need to reduce migrant numbers, and privately leaning on Austria to get this done.
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