Erdogan: Nato isn't strong enough to stand against Turkey

No, part of radioactivity was released into the atmosphere in form of aerosol, the other part leaked into the ocean with contaminated water, which was pumped through reactor to cool it.

The tsunami effect was that it took out reactor's cooling system (more precisely, reserve power generators), which ultimately caused overheating and core meltdown.


It was probably unique - Chernobyl disaster was unique in many aspects, it's just far from being the worst one.

A little aerosol is part of the deal. Contamination in coolant is heavy. When you spray salt water into the air the salt falls out very quickly. Similarly, contamination carried into the air by vaporized coolant falls out very quickly so doesn't spread very far. So again, while you are technically correct the point is irrelevant. The contamination that otherwise would not have gone far ended up in the ocean and has traveled halfway around the planet. Lesson learned, don't ignore tidal surge.

On the other hand, soot carries great distances before deposition. So the lesson of Chernobyl is do not produce radioactive soot. That should not have required a lesson. It should have been obvious. It isn't a question of "worst." It is a question of stupidity. Use of a design that was based on a flawed concept that no amount of good design or operation could ever compensate for in the long run; anyone involved in having supported that concept has no place in any future decision making regarding nuclear power.
 
A little aerosol is part of the deal. Contamination in coolant is heavy. When you spray salt water into the air the salt falls out very quickly. Similarly, contamination carried into the air by vaporized coolant falls out very quickly so doesn't spread very far.
Actually, almost all of radioactivity release went into the atmosphere and only small part leaked with coolant water. Analysis show that it spread throughout northern hemisphere, but we were lucky that most of it went to the East and eventually fall out into Pacific Ocean. Seriously, stop inventing facts, just read somewhere about both accidents. Wikipedia articles are accurate enough, at least on Chernobyl.

Use of a design that was based on a flawed concept that no amount of good design or operation could ever compensate for in the long run
Reactor's design flaws were in positive void coefficient and in construction of control rods. If you think that primary design flaw was in chemical properties of moderator, this is your personal opinion, apparently not shared by anyone of experts.
 
Actually, almost all of radioactivity release went into the atmosphere and only small part leaked with coolant water. Analysis show that it spread throughout northern hemisphere, but we were lucky that most of it went to the East and eventually fall out into Pacific Ocean. Seriously, stop inventing facts, just read somewhere about both accidents. Wikipedia articles are accurate enough, at least on Chernobyl.


Reactor's design flaws were in positive void coefficient and in construction of control rods. If you think that primary design flaw was in chemical properties of moderator, this is your personal opinion, apparently not shared by anyone of experts.

As is always the case, you can find an "internet expert" to support whatever hair brained ideas your government wishes were true.

Meanwhile, you feel free to go on thinking that a large pile of radioactive flammable material is an illustration of brilliant Russian leadership in the field of nuclear power generation. It looks good on you, really.
 
Looks like I've just encountered one.

I'm no expert. I said that if a country is importing nuclear technology they would be wise to look at prior stupidity before choosing Russia as a source, and you took offense. I think Chernobyl and a gigantic smoke plume from burning a pile of radioactive material speaks for itself on the issue. Despite all your efforts to drown that out you still are singing solo, because arguing for "awwwww, the smoke was okay" is just ridiculous. It isn't like I wanted to ridicule you, you just didn't leave room for anything else.
 
Despite all your efforts to drown that out you still are singing solo, because arguing for "awwwww, the smoke was okay" is just ridiculous.
Well, I said several times that the smoke wasn't okay. You are ridiculing somebody else, not me.

My argument was purely technical and had nothing to do with politics. You have very bizarre idea about both nuclear accidents and design flaws, and when I demonstrated it, you tried to make it look like the argument was about Russia. Perhaps you ran out of arguments and took offense, but offending you wasn't my intention.
 
The country that brought you Chernobyl? In their hands ANY nuclear tech is weapons tech.

That seems to be the post that launched a thousand ships...errrr, "but Russia is really the most brilliant, since a pile of burning radioactive material isn't a big deal" posts from @red_elk. Anybody see any way to interpret that other than political?
 
Anybody see any way to interpret that other than political?
Feel free to interpret it as you wish.
If your understanding of nuclear disasters is on the level of "Ocean came and took all radioactivity from Fukushima", I just couldn't help myself to correct you :)
 
Feel free to interpret it as you wish.
If your understanding of nuclear disasters is on the level of "Ocean came and took all radioactivity from Fukushima", I just couldn't help myself to correct you :)

Yeah, if it were that would be fine...but since it was just an obvious attempt to wipe the egg off that you had smeared across your own face I'd rather you left me out of it. Correct yourself first. Or keep shilling for Russia. Whichever you like.
 
Yeah, if it were that would be fine...but since it was just an obvious attempt to wipe the egg off that you had smeared across your own face I'd rather you left me out of it. Correct yourself first. Or keep shilling for Russia. Whichever you like.
Man, it was a technical argument. I've explained the issue to you and gave the link to literature, to educate yourself.
Trying to strawman ("smoke was okay") or moving the goalposts doesn't work with me.
 
Man, it was a technical argument. I've explained the issue to you and gave the link to literature, to educate yourself.
Trying to strawman ("smoke was okay") or moving the goalposts doesn't work with me.

No worries man, I wasn't in the market for Russian nuclear energy technology anyway, so it makes no difference that you failed to convince me. Move on to the next potential buyer and blow radioactive smoke up their butt.
 
He's obsessed with the Ottoman Empire and thinks he's the second coming of Atatürk who was a genocidal tyrant and religious fanatic.


the entire reasoning behind the establishment of A-K-P , by American intervention and there is a whole literature of that in Turkish (though we Turkey are most unlikely to reach them as of now), is the replacement of the Republic of 1923 by an Islamist thing that plays second fiddle to Saudis and their kind . Who despise Ottomans as like the basic tenet of their statehood . Atatürk , religious fanatic ? The bearded sections of this country who tend to hate him most ardently would laugh at this and say you don't have a particular idea on this . Now that they claim he was godless , if not Ante-Christ . But then maybe you are implying he was a secret Christian or Jew ...

Spoiler :


might be remembered by the casual reader that ı check some other gaming forum and the mirror thread there happens in the way it probably "should" be . Greek Nationalist guy can not find any hope in the seperatist affair in Afrin , eases on the relevant thread , comes up with this . As if it's like striking , as if revealing. New Turkey can beat the 6th Fleet ? And the 66th Fleet ? Oh my and oh why , it's like this . Everyday . What should be the Turkish Nationalists are like "Lay lay lom" , singing like happy , working on down to syllables of the words said and not said . That's why yours idiotly comes out like totally moderate , despite digging holes on places like Ceres, you know , with turbolazers . Such narratives are indeed , ı don't know , boring . Well , they are extremists like all over the place ; actually funny , too . With a Turkish moderator of that forum , for some reason , starting a thread on Neonazis or something in Greece and merely nicks changing , Ctrl-C , Ctrl-V and you could use the same exact sentences after changing the nouns ; like that and so simple .


numbers do have a quality of their own , never minding the absolute American prediliction for using proxies and the way wars are fought these days . Without America actually ordering them to stop , the round [of Afrin] would go to New Turkey , without a doubt . New Turkey , because in case you don't know , the Party will be like booming until the elections that they are the sole reason the seperatists are beaten . Because anyone before was a traitor , assisting the seperatists , crashing drones to keep a group from being shelled and bombed and actually discussing that on the telephone so that the glorious Congregation could tape them . Before a particular CFC member starts on it , well , it turns out Congregation was doing all sorts of stuff , too . Party gave towns to seperatists , Congregation sabotaged Party-seperatist talks , towns had to be taken back and Congregation succesfully caused like 500 extra deaths . Disgrace of July 15th , and recovery of towns and the like were super faster and super cheaper . That's why there is this disbelief in America , wasting Congregation so easily . They hate us Turks allright ... With such unlimited success stories , true or made up , this thread , if translated into Turkish and like read in the evening news , wouldn't make a single dent in the Party ...

politicians are probably the same all over , too . BSS kicks out Tillerson ? Why do ı care ? We have seen much better in New Turkey ; only in the new head of the spy service New America finally gets ahead of master New Turkey ; the head of the party intelligence here is not wanted by the EU for torture ... It's whatever that suits . The almost racists , at every critical turn , have helped the A-K-P , possibly because their founder , that Türkeş guy , had his nails taken out in 1944 . Ankara was or [maybe] not ready to join the club -of glorious Herr Adolf- and it was clear the Democracies would win and this Türkeş guy naturally thought he was a better man . Could have never found the support he needed for a coup and he was not the only one given such a treatment when it seriously became clear that Nazis were on the way out . So , he became a democrat , you know , in the German mold , a staunch friend of America and the like . It has survived so throughly . The PM , in the years past , implied the leader of the almost racists has no kids , so he is not a man . Years pass , much kissing and loving and stuff and a MP of the Main Opposition reminds the phrase and a battle royale . Have no interest in the the workings of the Parliament , so can not tell you people whether the almost racists ever displayed the same level of zest in beating the seperatist MPs ... But apparently this is the first ever time that drivers of the MPs have been involved in altercations .


why , the coup 1980 was managed , called for , whatever in all its guidance by America . Santa Süleyman , the then Prime Minister was taken easily . Ecevit of the Left was taken easily . Erbakan of the Islamists was taken easily . Türkeş of the almost racists could not be found for days . Reportedly he burned all his papers that would implicate him and his party in the murders and revenge murders , to the tune of 20 a day . Was like 9 and would wait , with horror in my heart , not fully aware of the political debates and actions that would mark people for elimination . Would wait for my father to come home from work , despite his warnings to me that he had nothing to do with politics . ı think the closest the disturbances came to my house was when a bunch of people burned the car of some guy from the other side in the next street . But then the almost racists were not the only murderers . America desired old political activists treated accordingly , because Santa Turgut would be in charge and no organized resistance was to exist against him . So , the Coup mixed the arrested and beat the hell of the Leftists and the Rightists at the same time . America must be cursing this oversight as of now , because Civil War is still unavailable . Whenever some hothead on the Left or the Right wants to burn the first fuse , some veteran of the days no doubt comes and grabs the earlobe of the hothead and talks of the days .When they were beaten together , Left and Right and turned out they could actually talk to the the "other side" .



exactly why the argument that the Party has turned Ultra Nationalist and Turkey must be punished by the EU and NATO (so that Greeks can sell gas and fund the invasion of "Asia Minor") is fallacious . The handsign of the two fingers came in a political rally as the PM was finger counting principles and the like , one finger , two finger like and it is simply a fleeting image , ending up in four fingers . Adapted from Egypt , handsign of the Muslim Brotherhood , of Mursi the ever glorious . America is adding the spare wheel of the A-K-P to A-K-P because the Party is not as glorious as it used to be . Almost racists will disappear within the Party and like why should ı care ? If that fails , am ready to bet they will pass a law that stipulates every vote for CHP counts as one vote and every vote for A-K-P counts as two votes
 
Yes, r16, uber-racists Gray Wolves, tied to paramilitary mass murder, will disappear within the just wildly racist AKP party, tied to lunatic Erdo and his pals. I think you have remained in orbit way too much :p

There won't be an invasion of Asia Minor by Greece - as usual, you shouldn't believe turkish newspapers. Greece will defend if invaded by Turkey due to the latter's greed for territory not its own, and if anything follows that it won't be by us. Afterall, western anatolian beaches are popular for some foreigners, so they may want to see them en masse this time?
 
This is spam. Spam is not acceptable.
oh-kay , more talk on politics . ı hate being taken seriously . Despite the repeated warnings on stuff , one can still the hushed talk on the streets as if it is like unique . The mirror thread elsewhere should have the picture in a larger format . Go back to page 1 here and see the PM with two fingers ... Then right next to him , see the Muslim Brotherhood's 4 fingers . The larger format picture shows that guy as well , smiling . Knowing he is there to stress the obvious . The alliance with the almost racists is transitory , the oft quoted train / bus one gets off when arriving at the destination . New Turkey thinks it will rule Arabs , the Arabs actually know New Turkey is their own train / bus to rule here . The PM , when Arabs and seperatists were brothers , declared he was walking on all sorts of Nationalisms . Get the idea that the underside of a shoe is an insult in the Middle East ? Yeah , you got that . Those were the times when T.C. (standing for Turkish Republic) were letters being visibly taken down from the gates of all sorts of Goverment offices . And what were the almost racists doing ? Burning tires at crossroads ? Fighting pitched battles with the Police , suffering water cannons and pepper spray ?

see , it's really hopeless for Greeks to gain American / European approval for Turkey to be kicked out of the so called civilized word . The Party is not becoming almost racist ; almost racists are enlisted by America in the Party to keep the Party in power and this must naturally be suiting Americans / Europeans . If the Greek Church is 3000 years old , its Anglo opponents and the like love to claim at least 2500 . It's like downright sillily funny that this Byron dude who died for the Greek Revolution much prefered to hate them Greeks . You know , only because London could not start stuff in Anatolia and the like to break the Ottoman state structure . For Trade as trade was understood in those days . Me personally translating a passage or two while as a museum guide , ı believe no Brit had even set foot in Konya and stuff until Napoleon descended on Egypt .

Moderator Action: If you hate being taken seriously, stick to non-political threads. Cut out the spam either way, ~ Arakhor
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
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well , well who would have known ? March 18th , 1915 was when the Franco-British Fleet was given a bloody nose , though it would have been much more fun if Queen Elizabeth was closer and offered a beam target or something . Because this is cool and the Party can not still beat "I order you to die" because more troops would arrive and so on of Mustafa Kemal even if that would happen more than a month later . So they mobilize their "Motorised Troops" , you know bunch of people on buses and descend on Çanakkale on the anniversary and cheer the PM , because the voter base in that province is not exactly tilted to favour the A-K-P . And because something is needed , Afrin falls . It would still fall , if moved fast and it was encircled in the first week of the operation back in January , with perhaps an additional 20 killed . But that wouldn't be in time for political gain . Say , for the PM's birthday , the idea was to show his plane being the first to land at the 3rd airport of Istanbul , the biggest one in the galaxy . Alas , the New Turkey is not developed enough for that . There will be a million people linking the fall of Afrin to that back in February . Stuff , stuff and stuff and well Afrin falls exactly on the day of the anniversary to faithful troops , not to the "dinsiz" Kemalists . You know who ; without faith , too .


also on the day , a party congress for the almost racists , whose leader gets a crushing vote of confidence ... So that he can tell his lower ranks , it's him who forced the Party to act and the lower ranks ever increasing "fears" of being sidelined is not valid .

and how blessed it is to be living in a country when being taken seriously means there might be no reason left to be taken seriously afterwards , in a dramatic use of overblown for those who might want to take it that way .

this thread is all about making stuff about New Turkey , which might even be not made up , to show it in a bad light and why , it's even a fresh thing . Afrin proves , like unexpectedly , r16 is right about America will never let New Turkey fail , so suddenly 5000 seperatists who wished a honourable death DO melt away . Al Crusading has an interview with the head of the Greek Cypriots and he is like unhappy that he can't promise his people an American intervention to stop New Turkey against Exxon . See , it's fully on and why Greece will not get what it wants . People are like even ready to cheer , not even with hushed tones , too .
 
It's unfortunate that the Turkish people are subjected to Erdogan and his court.
They elected him. They don't even have the excuse of being illiterate or exploited, Turkey was until now a rather functionning state. No, they were in one of the most secular and advanced country of the Middle-east, and just chose to jump back into the dark ages by themselves.
 
and actually this is some Orientalist narrative . That it's the fault of a lesser race to fall back into the abyss . While it's also silly to claim we people , voters and the like , have no failure in this . The fake economy never misses a beat , while it would just take 20 minutes if the West was really pissed off with A-K-P . The solution is simple , but involves extreme suffering , and weirdly not on my part or something . Churchill might have been the Minister for War instead of Navy and put a division or two to the Franco-British Fleet , which might have then crossed the Strait , then forced a decision on the not very brave Istanbul . The Turk would have to fight an insurgency , somewhat tougher than the 1919-22 kind of things . But the Great War would have ended by 1916 and a lesser destitude and peoples' constitutions might have been stronger and there might be like 15 million less killed due to the Spanish Influenza .


why ? Because the referandum that gave PM his future powers he already was using before the Referandum was in a country that has like 55 million voters and came like 50-50 . While 12 million actually did not go to the polls and 75% of that said they would say NO , if they had . You know , because no nothing hurts the Party , especially when calling Merkel and her entire bunch Nazis and disregarding European laws and all . Time after time and time . Because if the Islamists fall , their people in courts will suddenly turn Kemalist and there will be so many corruption cases that the Party will not have enough people to do its work .
 
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"The Day of the Marauder" in Africa.

After the occupation of the Turkish army by the city of Afrin, it was actually given to pro-Turkish militants for looting.





Turkish troops, as more disciplined, ignored the marauder's day, limiting themselves to collecting military trophies and eliminating Kurdish symbols.

More photos: https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/4060099.html

Yesterday the Turkish ambassador and the military attache were in Mosul, where they discussed the issues of operations against the PKK with the Iraqi military. The Turkish special forces already conduct operations against the PKK in the province of Erbil. The issue of operations in Iraq against the Kurds was agreed by Turkey and Iran in February, after which Baghdad gave its consent to the actions of the Turkish military on its territory. It is not difficult to see the implementation of a comprehensive strategy to close the US-Kurdish project, which will involve the forces of Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria.
 
Google-translation gave an error:gripe:
(article) Yesterday the Turkish ambassador and the military attache were in Mosul, where they discussed the issues of operations against the PKK with the Iraqi military. The Turkish special forces already conduct operations against the PKK in the province of Erbil. The issue of operations in Iraq against the Kurds was agreed by Turkey and Iran in February, after which Baghdad gave its consent to the actions of the Turkish military on its territory. It is not difficult to see the implementation of a comprehensive strategy to close the US-Kurdish project, which will involve the forces of Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria."(/article)

This doesn't sound realistic. For starters, there are over 10 million kurds in Turkey. Secondly, Syria and Iran aren't on friendly terms with Turkey either. Thirdly... if the US actually wants to back the kurds, it isn't like it can be beaten by Turkey or even two Turkies.
Though this whole affair with the war in the middle east is taking way too long to show fireworks; as a watchman i am expecting the signal for the fall of Troy, placed on the walls of Argos.
 
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