Turkey v Kurds

I had to chuckle playing Bill Maher last night. If Trump is betraying the Kurds since they didn't help us in WW2, Then what about our other allies, the Germans. Last time I checked they didn't help us either. :lol:
 
rah said:
I had to chuckle playing Bill Maher last night. If Trump is betraying the Kurds since they didn't help us in WW2, Then what about our other allies, the Germans. Last time I checked they didn't help us either. :lol:
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I'm opposed to US interventionist BS throughout my lifetime and before in the first place. That's not the stance upon which the country became great, and it's made a lot of enemies with little to show for doing so...at great costs.

That said, I'm ALSO not impressed by how we treat people we do work with, once committing to an area. I wish the Kurds were the first time the US abandoned people like this, but no. Our leadership has pulled THAT multiple times my lifetime too.
 
TheMeInTeam said:
That said, I'm ALSO not impressed by how we treat people we do work with, once committing to an area. I wish the Kurds were the first time the US abandoned people like this, but no. Our leadership has pulled THAT multiple times my lifetime too.
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And it's not like this is the first time the US hung the Kurds out to dry either.....
 
Broken_Erika said:
And it's not like this is the first time the US hung the Kurds out to dry either.....
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I despise Samantha Bee's show, but this was the first thing that came to mind upon hearing of the lamentable news.

It's so sad to think that a people who were so hopeful and so optimistic just a couple years ago, could get so completely fudged over now. I don't expect this decision to weigh on his conscience now, or at any point in the future, but this blood is absolutely on Trump's hands.

Also add it to the massive pile of a) anarchist movements (not conclusive here yet, but certainly likely) failing not due to distribution or social problems, but tanks and bombs, and b) Leftist movements getting fudged over by allegiances-of-convenience to Liberal regimes.
 
Despite talk of betrayal, this seems to be the first American-incited war of the century that is coming to a close. The kurds living in some situation of autonomy within a sovereign Syria will be a better, and more stable, outcome than what Iraq (still with the threat of civil war hung over it) and Afghanistan are suffering through. And it is better for the kurds themselves than being used as pawns for regional wars and constantly threatened. Being alive is better than being dead, which was what they risked constantly in that war situation. It will depend on what kind of settlement they achieve within Syria, but they're still reasonably well positioned to get a good one. And it look like the turkish intervention and the american withdrawal were instrumental to bring about that outcome. We'll see, but as of now there is some hope.

@Owen Glyndwr, a state that depends entirely on military/political protection from another is not a state. Its a protectorate at most, not autonomous. If they were optimistic, it was because they were fools. They have a long history of being used and discarded to learn from, they know fully well that Turkey, Iran and Iran, not just Syria, will act however they can to prevent a kurdish state from being created anywhere. If a kurdish state is to come into being, it will have to be through the gradual winning of political autonomy in the portions held by each of these states, such that it will become too costly to reverse for each government. Then they will be a position of trying to get independent one by one, while the other states will have a hard time acting against it. That strategy is wrecked if one of the portions asserts itself as aggressively independent before the others even get political autonomy: it immediately creates a backlash against the kurds on those other countries, who are not equipped to resist it. The kurds in Turkey have already felt it, after the aborted attempted by those in Iraq, and due to this protectorate in Syria.
If this war ends with the kurds getting an autonomous regional state within Syria, that will be a win for them upon which they can built. Slowing and without illusions, they may eventually get their state.
 
innonimatu said:
...this seems to be the first American-incited war of the century that is coming to a close. .
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I'm not sure how our intervention into an ongoing war can be viewed as inciting it. :confused:

Wait! Are you talking about the Bush-Iraqi War? That ended in 2008, when the democratically elected Iraq government ordered US troops out.
 
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uppi said:
The Kurds are going to regret that they didn't help Napoleon at Waterloo.
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Trump said:
Let Syria and Assad protect the Kurds and fight Turkey for their own land. I said to my Generals, why should we be fighting for Syria and Assad to protect the land of our enemy?
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What an absolute cretin.
"I said to my generals", :lol: , I suppose he has the mentality of a particularly slow child playing with toy-soldiers.
 
red_elk said:
American base in Manbij has been overtaken by the forces of evil.
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east...-kurds-manbij-trump-assad-sanctions-1.7973896
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Can't Mossad the Assad.

siEw4Qf.png
 
I know that the turns are evil, kurds good etc etc... glossing over the fact that the kurds were claiming territories they had not historically inhabited, and did not now, for their would-be state. But those condemning the US widrawal from Syria, what did you wish? That the US remain there eternally, another forever war for the empire? Knowing that it was bound to get "hot" eventually?

Were you perhaps against the invasion of Iraq because Bush, but then for the invasion of Syria because Obama, and now for the continued occupation because Trump?
 
innonimatu said:
I know that the turns are evil, kurds good etc etc... glossing over the fact that the kurds were claiming territories they had not historically inhabited, and did not now, for their would-be state. But those condemning the US widrawal from Syria, what did you wish? That the US remain there eternally, another forever war for the empire? Knowing that it was bound to get "hot" eventually?
Were you perhaps against the invasion of Iraq because Bush, but then for the invasion of Syria because Obama, and now for the continued occupation because Trump?
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Its fine since Russia or Turkey is the one that is doing it, but not if its the Kurds or the US ?
because this is one of the worst planned and even worse executed withdrawals ? You know thousands of captured ISIS fighters running free ? Allied forces which co-operated fighting ISIS now fighting each other ? US forces trapped ?
 
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