Two party system in USA

Inhalaattori

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When I think about US politics I find it very undemocratic. There is very little choice in two party system. You very often have to chooce lesser from two evils. Wikipedia tells that only USA and Jamaica have two party system! Do you think two party system is good or not?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-party_system

This question came in my mind when I saw this video:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aDjtQDuvA9A

Gore got million votes more than Bush, but didnt get elected - that is also very strange to me. In other countries its simply so that who gets most votes, gets elected. I think that all votes should be equally important. Do you think that electoral votes are the best way to chooce a president?

This video also suits here:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1JSBhI_0at0
 
i like the electoral college system.
 
When I think about US politics I find it very undemocratic. There is very little choice in two party system. You very often have to chooce lesser from two evils. Wikipedia tells that only USA and Jamaica have two party system! Do you think two party system is good or not?

This question came in my mind when I saw this video:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aDjtQDuvA9A

Gore got million votes more than Bush, but didnt get elected - that is also very strange to me. In other countries its simply so that who gets most votes, gets elected. I think that all votes should be equally important. Do you think that electoral votes are the best way to chooce a president?

This video also suits here:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1JSBhI_0at0
Two parties is extremely undemocratic. It's more like a pseudodictatorship.

The electoral college is crap. I say go with popular vote + a runoff.
 
When I think about US politics I find it very undemocratic. There is very little choice in two party system. You very often have to chooce lesser from two evils. Wikipedia tells that only USA and Jamaica have two party system! Do you think two party system is good or not?

Corrections: You are shifting the responsibility for your votes. You do NOT have to choose between the two. You can always pick an alternate party or write in someone else. That is always your choice. If you CHOOSE to stick with one of the two parties because you think it is pointless to do otherwise, that's your problem, not the system's.

I present my ballot from the last election. Look at the MULTIPLE choices for President.
Spoiler :




Wikipedia is wrong. We do not have a two party system. Our Constitution is silent on political parties, and as my ballot showed, other parties show up as well. That they do not get support is not the fault of any 'system' but rather the parties themselves and/or the voters (with the vast majority of the blame/responsibility being laid at the voters' feet).
 
Wikipedia is wrong. We do not have a two party system. Our Constitution is silent on political parties, and as my ballot showed, other parties show up as well. That they do not get support is not the fault of any 'system' but rather the parties themselves and/or the voters (with the vast majority of the blame/responsibility being laid at the voters' feet).
Don't be so literal.

We have a de facto 2 party system. How many 3rd Parties are in Congress? NONE. Not even the 2 Independent Senators belong to any of the 3rd Parties we have in this country.

So, yes, 3rd Parties, exist, but if you want to talk about reality and actually having power, they are almost non-existent.

And, VRWC, while a part of the reason they lack power is there lack of appeal (and general their own general idiocy) another large part of it is that the Dems/Repubs have no interest in losing their power and, generally speaking, rig the game in their favor.
 
The electoral college is crap. I say go with popular vote + a runoff.

The electoral college and Senate come from similar ideas, although the results come out different.

Historically, there were concerns that more populous states would have more influence, so as a concession, each state gets two senators in the Senate. Similarly, the Electoral college is more state-based than a direct popular vote.

Technically, the USA is a republic.
 
How many 3rd Parties are in Congress? NONE. Not even the 2 Independent Senators belong to any of the 3rd Parties we have in this country.

It's even worse: None of the current 3rd parties has had a member elected to federal office ever.

With the current political system, no voting behaviour can disrupt the two party system in the USA. The only possible thing would be replacing one of the parties with another (on a regional or nationwide level).
 
What about that guy, Ross Perot in 1992?

At one point in June, Perot led the polls with 39% (versus 31% for Bush and 25% for Clinton).

Its not impossible for a third party candidate to become president or have seats in Congress.
 
Two parties is extremely undemocratic. It's more like a pseudodictatorship.

The electoral college is crap. I say go with popular vote + a runoff.

That's basically what Italy does, no? I'd say no matter what, avoid what Italy does, because it deadlocks the country. An all or nothing situation is more decisive and forces compromise; The trick to playing it right is to get one's compromise in well before Nov. 4th.

If one doesn't like the two-parties, then one really needs to get involved in one's party well before primaries to try to shape opinions and politics. And if one really wants a third party, it's not really logical to shoot for the moon (i.e. POTUS) except to promote the party's values, and give free advertising for the local office positions. Not trying to say that the USA should legally restrict itself to two parties, which is unconstitutional ( I agree with VWRC).

Bottom line as I see is when 300+ million people have to agree to cooperate on something, there has to be an expedious method of compromise, not 32 flavors.
 
The two parties run the system. They control the media, they control the debates, they own this country.
 
Wikipedia is wrong. We do not have a two party system. Our Constitution is silent on political parties, and as my ballot showed, other parties show up as well. That they do not get support is not the fault of any 'system' but rather the parties themselves and/or the voters (with the vast majority of the blame/responsibility being laid at the voters' feet).
The fact that:

1) We have a first-past the post electoral system
2) Fusional voting is banned in most states
3) The electoral college essentially requires a majority of votes for a person, not a plurality

...means that given enough time, the political system will eventually stabilize into a two-party system.
 
That's basically what Italy does, no? I'd say no matter what, avoid what Italy does, because it deadlocks the country. An all or nothing situation is more decisive and forces compromise; The trick to playing it right is to get one's compromise in well before Nov. 4th.

That's what France do, and it does not result in a deadlock.

BUT yeah, in general, no matter what, avoid what Italy does :)
 
Thanks Bill for those facts.

A defacto two-party system leads to a more stable government than a multi-party system, but at the cost of less choice.

Except that we have primaries, where there is ALOT of choice. The OP needs to learn alot more about electoral practices here in the US.

(OP also ignores that most political positions from the city/county on down are non-partisan contests.)
 
The fact that:

1) We have a first-past the post electoral system
2) Fusional voting is banned in most states
3) The electoral college essentially requires a majority of votes for a person, not a plurality

...means that given enough time, the political system will eventually stabilize into a two-party system.

Truth.

The presidency, although it gets the most press, has the least effect on the actual electoral system. The two-party system in presidential races is a byproduct of the two-party system in the Congress, which is itself a byproduct of first-past-the-post voting in legislative elections. If we adopted some kind of proportional representation in Congress, we would likely see a greater role for small parties. In particular, more extreme members of the Republican and Democratic Parties would likely leave the parties to form or join lesser parties (in particular, libertarian Republicans would likely join the Libertarian Party, and some Conservative Democrats might form a party of their own, though finding a uniting ideology will be difficult; Christian Socialism would prolly fit the bill, but that would just confuse the hell out of the voters). However, the Democrats and Republicans would likely continue to be the largest parties because they would likely represent the center-left and center-right (just as the SPD and CDU/CSU are the leaders in Germany, the PSOE and PP in Spain, PS and UMP in France, etc!).

(Note: Because the Congress is supposed to be a meeting of representatives of localities, I would advocate Single Transferable Vote with multi-member districts of 3-5 for House elections . This is is the system used in Ireland and for Australia's Senate; Mixed-member proportional doesn't ring right for the American system. The Senate would either be by runoff or unchanged).

As for the Electoral College, it is, in its current form, a rather outdated and silly device, and I think that a runoff system might be better. On the other hand, the College does redirect campaign attention to rural areas more effectively, whereas a direct runoff would cause all attention to be given to the cities. Assuming that the latter is about as bad as the former (a particularly defensible position given that the US is a federation), a good compromise would be to have states split their electoral votes in some kind of proportional manner, either by distributing Electors directly in proportion to the votes of the people (which would favor urban areas a bit less than direct election) or by distributing Electors by special electoral districts within the states (which would be a bit better for rural areas). I don't think that the Maine-Nebraska system is good though: congressional districts are, as a rule, gerrymandered. However, if they weren't, it might be a good third alternative, but I'm sure it would probably favor one group or the other (though I can't be sure which).
 
When I think about US politics I find it very undemocratic. There is very little choice in two party system. You very often have to chooce lesser from two evils. Wikipedia tells that only USA and Jamaica have two party system! Do you think two party system is good or not?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-party_system

This question came in my mind when I saw this video:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aDjtQDuvA9A

Can you honestly say the multi-party system is better? I hear just as many parliamentarians complain about their system as people that live in single member district systems. I don't think party politics is as strong in the US as other countries it's not uncommon for a party member to vote against the majority of his party.

For instance Joe Liberman ran against the democrat primary winner and went to the opposing parties convention and he still hasn't been kicked out of the democratic caucus(yet anyway)

Gore got million votes more than Bush, but didnt get elected - that is also very strange to me. In other countries its simply so that who gets most votes, gets elected. I think that all votes should be equally important. Do you think that electoral votes are the best way to chooce a president?

This video also suits here:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1JSBhI_0at0

In most multi party systems you don't even get to choose the president/prime minister. of course I would prefer it got switched to a popular vote


I think there's room for multiple parties at the federal level it's just that they blow all their cash trying to put a nobody into the presidential office. If they had a better grassroots campaign 3rd parties could start at the local level, work their way up to state level, then take a swing at some HoR seats. Most 3rd parties lose because they pretty much set themselves up for failure or absorption into a major 3rd party.

Single issue third parties usually have their issue absorbed by a major party and become redundant. Extremist parties are either so extreme they wouldn't possibly stand a chance or they are more likely to align themselves with a major party that most appropriately fits their agenda.
 
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