U.N. Approves Airstrikes to Halt Attacks by Qaddafi Forces

[Verbose]

Well, it's not as if it is a total surprise that Ghaddaffi tends to call white black etc. I'd guess he's either trying to do the dirty deed as quickly as possible, before the French or Americans etc. can cobble some kind of response together. Possibly he's trying to get his forces into Benghazi asap to make them harder to hit by air strikes?

 

[Verbose]

I'm not talking about military intervention to build a democracy. I am talking about people going along with a nice narrative justifying military intervention without really thinking it through and considering the consequences.

Well, right now the Ghaddafi alternative narrative is either a complete nonsense one where white is black and love is hate etc., or the kind that grows from the barrel of a gun. As narratives go, by a rare amount of international common consensus (even the Arab League agrees on this), neither is anywhere near sufficient to make him a legitimate ruler. And most importantly, by and large the Libyans have made clear they wish to be rid of him, and that's why a considerable number of them are under threat of getting killed by him at this juncture.

 

[Renner]

If he can rush in and take enough of the rebels down fast enough, he might even pull this off. Sure his forces are likely to take a beating from air strikes, but what does he care, its not like he has any other options.

If he obeys the ceasefire and waits he is sure to lose, or at least not regain the rebel held part of the country. Taking out the rebels and hunkering down until the west gets tired and leaves would probably be his best bet.

 

[Verbose]

Ghaddafi has now apparently sent an "urgent message" to the US and France in particular that we in the west will come to "regret" involving ourselves in Libya's internal (i.e. his) business.

 

[El_Machinae]

It sounds like Illram is suggesting that we have a better international law mechanism? If so, I agree. And this is something that takes a lot of non-partisan help to build.

The girl in my avatar is from the Ivory Coast. They could really use some charity dollars there. The UNSC won't be doing anything.

 

[Camikaze]

I'm not talking about military intervention to build a democracy. I am talking about people going along with a nice narrative justifying military intervention without really thinking it through and considering the consequences.

What exactly do you think the consequences will be? Your issue in the previous few posts had appeared to be that there were other places with worse humanitarian situations, but now you seem to be suggesting that the intervention will be harmful. In what way will the impact be negative?

 

[Verbose]

What exactly do you think the consequences will be? Your issue in the previous few posts had appeared to be that there were other places with worse humanitarian situations, but now you seem to be suggesting that the intervention will be harmful. In what way will the impact be negative?

Well I, that is me, thinks there is likely going to be an element of damned if your do damned if you don't. If Ghaddafi is allowed ti shell and bomb his people into submission unhindered, that's a clear message to the other less-than-democratic rulers in the region asking themselves what to do about the people getting uppity. But if he's opposed, it might embolden people into new uprisings, this time with some kind of expectation of aid from the outside if needs be. So we are going to be put on the spot whatever we do or don't do.

 

[Camikaze]

I would've thought that it encourages liberal sentiments is a good thing, whether or not the West will be able to come rushing to everyone's aid.

 

[Flying Pig]

Gadaffi is attacking Benghazi as we speak - despite what has been said, it's looking more and more likely that we're going to war. I can see France intervening as their actions to recognise East Libya leave them in a fair pickle if Gadaffi stays on, and our own PM has made it clear that he will not see Gadaffi in control again; and I can't see the US missing a chance to topple its biggest opponent in North Africa.

 

[Disgustipated]

The Libyan leader says he sent a message to President Barack Obama defending his decision to attack rebel cities: "If you found them taking over American cities by the force of arms, tell me what you would do."

I hate to say this, but I agree with Gadaffi.

 

[Godwynn]

I hate to say this, but I agree with Gadaffi.

We didn't ruthlessly slaughter the rebels after the Civil War.

 

[Verbose]

And rebellion against a dictatorial regime secon in nuttyness only to North Korea isn't hard to justify in the first place. The Ghaddafi regime has survived the last decade largely because the US sort of got distracted by its own "war on terror".

 

[Arwon]

So much for all that

The Age

Doesn't mean they'll win. Could easily be a panicked last ditch attempt to end things before French air power is brought to bear against them.

Gadaffi is attacking Benghazi as we speak - despite what has been said, it's looking more and more likely that we're going to war. I can see France intervening as their actions to recognise East Libya leave them in a fair pickle if Gadaffi stays on, and our own PM has made it clear that he will not see Gadaffi in control again; and I can't see the US missing a chance to topple its biggest opponent in North Africa.

We basically are. Well not "we". But yes. It's an air-strikey, support the rebs sort of war though. There won't be western ground troops, this is Libyans' fight.

 

[Flying Pig]

We didn't ruthlessly slaughter the rebels after the Civil War.

Nor did we massacre the students that marched on London during the G20 protests et al. Come to think of it, we democracies don't ignore our people to such an extent that they need to take up arms; they just elect a new government. Which they can do in a democracy.

God I hate Gadaffi.

 

[Godwynn]

French Jets Over Libya

Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- French fighters jets soared over Libya on Saturday to counter Moammar Gadhafi's military forces who were intent on destroying the opposition as they pushed into the rebel stronghold of Benghazi.

"Our air force will oppose any aggression by Colonel Gadhafi against the population of Benghazi," said French President Nicolas Sarkozy, speaking after an international, top-level meeting in Paris over the Libyan crisis.

Link to video.

To arms citizens!
Form your battalions!

 

[Formaldehyde]

Good thing Gadhafi already shot down that rebel jet. Otherwise, it might have been highly embarrassing for the French to shoot down an ally.

 

[Godwynn]

Come at me bro!

 

[Flying Pig]

Good thing Gadhafi already shot down that rebel jet. Otherwise, it might have been highly embarrassing for the French to shoot down an ally.

Is it known to be rebel now? BBC reported this morning that it was unknown whose it was or who shot it down.

EDIT: Apparently the rebels say it was theirs, but that could quite easily be a propaganda move.

Good drills the French; strong and decisive action that may well have the deciding role in this crisis.

 

[Formaldehyde]

CNN is stating it was a rebel plane. It makes a lot more sense since Qadhafi has relatively sophisticated SA capabilities.

Not sure how it would be positive propanganda for the rebels to be showing this is really a civil war more than anything else. I really wonder what percentage of the population supports either side. I guess we will never know.

 

[Flying Pig]

Not sure how it would be positive propanganda for the rebels to be showing this is really a civil war more than anything else.

The rebels want to appear as weak as possible so that the West feels more need to intervene. If the rebels are looking powerful, NATO may decide it isn't worth risking our troops to as great an extent.