Bozo Erectus
Master Baker
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Or better yet, whats to stop the incumbent party from blowing up a pipe bomb at a voting station every four years and cancelling the election?NateDawgNY said:
U.S. Mulling How to Delay Elections in Case of Attack
- Thread starter JohnRM
- Start date
Sanaz
Gorilla Joe
That's why it would need to be decided by a neutal group, who is not up for election. It would be very bad, but that's the purpose of contingency plans. I still say the government is irresponsible if they don't have a two part plan, with one part devoted to keeping the election process intact in all conditions, and the second for the still unknown case where it can't be. Both cases need to be handled with fairness.NateDawgNY said:
It would be pretty bad if Kerry and Edwards were both murdered the night before election day, and Bush had no opposition for an election. Theoretically they could be voted in, but would any vote taken on the next day be fair? And this is an obvious case that we can think about easily. What about a worse situation?
Bozo Erectus
Master Baker
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IF Kerry and Edwards were killed before the election, rightly or wrongly, everybody on the planet would think Bush ordered the hit. If you think Bush is unpopular now...
Sanaz
Gorilla Joe
Any contingency plan that wasn't party neutral would be a complete failure.Dumb pothead said:
Sanaz
Gorilla Joe
Terrorism is meant to disrupt. I don't think a terrorist organization making plans like this would be upset if everyone hated Bush, that would just be a bonus.Dumb pothead said:
Duddha
His Dudeness
How do we know the terrorists would rather have a Democratic president over Bush. If I were bin Laden, I'd be pretty happy with the mess Bush made out of Iraq.
cegman
Scott Walker Supporter
I have a feeling that this cannot go through because i for one would be willing to take a gun to the capitol and start shooting people to get my message through. I am not saying I will but I am would if I don't have any other option.
NateDawgNY
Just Chillin'
In light of this discussion, I am bringing this up.
Here is some background info on Hitler's rise to power:
After a terrorist attack on the Reichstag, Hitler was given temporary emergency powers to deal with the current terrorist threat. However, his powers were so broad that he was able to take full control of what was previously a democratic country.
Before everyone goes off, I am not equating Bush with Hitler. All I am saying is that we should be very cautious of what our government does.
Here is some background info on Hitler's rise to power:
After a terrorist attack on the Reichstag, Hitler was given temporary emergency powers to deal with the current terrorist threat. However, his powers were so broad that he was able to take full control of what was previously a democratic country.
Before everyone goes off, I am not equating Bush with Hitler. All I am saying is that we should be very cautious of what our government does.
Kamilian
Deity
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- Oct 5, 2002
- Messages
- 3,473
I just read about it in the paper and I am honestly just blown away and shocked and outraged.
This new little shenanigan that the Bush administration is trying to pull has just taken it to the point where it's no longer about "Are you a Republican or a Democrat?"
It's become "Do you support DEMOCRACY or a POLICE STATE?"
Why do I say democracy or police state, some people here may be wondering?
Because delaying elections, whether its parliamentary (in US's case: Senatorial or House) or presidential (and/or in other countries prime-ministerial), is a first step that puts the erosion of democracy in any country on a fast track. Never mind the attempt to deprive a specific group of people of a basic civil right (the euphemistically-named "Federal Marriage Amendment") that failed only by a quite small amount of votes or even the US Patriot Act. Those were just small preliminary steps compared to this!
Today: A "temporary" delay of elections.
What about tomorrow? "Temporary" emergency powers, effectively constituting a presidential dictatorship?
Isn't this how Hitler became Chancellor and later Fuhrer? Of course, in Germany it WAS also many other factors, including some levels of intimidation by his paramilitary goons, but still...
...
Are we going to have an Enabling Act now, in 2004 or 2005 just like the German Reichstag had its Enabling Act in 1933?
Whether it would be a totally-cruel tyranny like that of the Nazi Third Reich or not - though it probably will not escalate to that point, I do agree - a dictatorship is a dictatorship. Don't get me wrong here, please - I'm not comparing the Bush administration to the Nazi regime in terms of that it's gonna be just as brutal or cruel or evil or anything. But there is a parallel here.
Is their attempt to gain this power to delay elections for an undefined amount of time their way of "keeping democracy safe"? If they claim that's what it is, then they are lying through their teeth, because delaying elections will not keep democracy safe. It will only put its erosion on the fast track, as I have already said above.
And they say it is because there is still possibilty that al-Qaida (is this the correct spelling because I have seen SEVERAL) will attack. HELLO?! THERE WAS AND IS AND WILL BE DANGER ANY TIME!
FOR GOD'S SAKES THERE IS NEVER A TIME WHEN EVERYTHING IS ALRIGHT AND SAFE! THE MINUTE HUMANITY WAS BORN OR WAS CREATED THERE WAS SOME KIND OF DANGER!
That is a bull**** excuse.
And those are my thoughts on this new development.
Again, do you support democracy or police state?
Also, before I sign off, I would like to note something that I saw a drama/semi-documentary type of special on HBO. It's title was Strip Search. Yes, I know it sounds like it's nothing but a late-night or PPV porn show but it's anything but.
Plot Outline: (courtesy of Internet Move Database - IMDb)
Strip Search follows several parallel stories examining personal freedoms vs. national security in the aftermath of 9/11; two main subplots involve an American woman detained in China and an Arab man detained in New York City.
That doesn't say much - you'd have to see it to really know what it's all really about.
But a main key phrase there is - and it is said both at the beginning and the end of the show:
"If your government said that it could keep you safe from terrorism and end terrorism if you would give up your freedoms for an amount of time, would you?"
(at the beginning, it's like in a college classroom and the teacher is asking his students this question)
"For a week?" (the students almost unanimously said "yeah")
"A month?" (with slightly more hesitation, again almost all "yeah")
"A year?" (a bit more hesitation but again "yeah")
"10 years?" (now only about half the student says "yeah")
"Forever?" (this time almost unanimously they said "no definitely not")
The whole phrase goes like this:
"If your government said that it could keep you safe from terrorism and end terrorism if you would give up your freedoms for an amount of time, would you? For a week? A month? A year? 10 years?... Forever?"
Would you?
Moderator Action: Automatic 3 day ban for profanity
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
This new little shenanigan that the Bush administration is trying to pull has just taken it to the point where it's no longer about "Are you a Republican or a Democrat?"
It's become "Do you support DEMOCRACY or a POLICE STATE?"
Why do I say democracy or police state, some people here may be wondering?
Because delaying elections, whether its parliamentary (in US's case: Senatorial or House) or presidential (and/or in other countries prime-ministerial), is a first step that puts the erosion of democracy in any country on a fast track. Never mind the attempt to deprive a specific group of people of a basic civil right (the euphemistically-named "Federal Marriage Amendment") that failed only by a quite small amount of votes or even the US Patriot Act. Those were just small preliminary steps compared to this!
Today: A "temporary" delay of elections.
What about tomorrow? "Temporary" emergency powers, effectively constituting a presidential dictatorship?
Isn't this how Hitler became Chancellor and later Fuhrer? Of course, in Germany it WAS also many other factors, including some levels of intimidation by his paramilitary goons, but still...
...
Are we going to have an Enabling Act now, in 2004 or 2005 just like the German Reichstag had its Enabling Act in 1933?
Whether it would be a totally-cruel tyranny like that of the Nazi Third Reich or not - though it probably will not escalate to that point, I do agree - a dictatorship is a dictatorship. Don't get me wrong here, please - I'm not comparing the Bush administration to the Nazi regime in terms of that it's gonna be just as brutal or cruel or evil or anything. But there is a parallel here.
Is their attempt to gain this power to delay elections for an undefined amount of time their way of "keeping democracy safe"? If they claim that's what it is, then they are lying through their teeth, because delaying elections will not keep democracy safe. It will only put its erosion on the fast track, as I have already said above.
And they say it is because there is still possibilty that al-Qaida (is this the correct spelling because I have seen SEVERAL) will attack. HELLO?! THERE WAS AND IS AND WILL BE DANGER ANY TIME!
FOR GOD'S SAKES THERE IS NEVER A TIME WHEN EVERYTHING IS ALRIGHT AND SAFE! THE MINUTE HUMANITY WAS BORN OR WAS CREATED THERE WAS SOME KIND OF DANGER!
That is a bull**** excuse.
And those are my thoughts on this new development.
Again, do you support democracy or police state?
Also, before I sign off, I would like to note something that I saw a drama/semi-documentary type of special on HBO. It's title was Strip Search. Yes, I know it sounds like it's nothing but a late-night or PPV porn show but it's anything but.
Plot Outline: (courtesy of Internet Move Database - IMDb)
Strip Search follows several parallel stories examining personal freedoms vs. national security in the aftermath of 9/11; two main subplots involve an American woman detained in China and an Arab man detained in New York City.
That doesn't say much - you'd have to see it to really know what it's all really about.
But a main key phrase there is - and it is said both at the beginning and the end of the show:
"If your government said that it could keep you safe from terrorism and end terrorism if you would give up your freedoms for an amount of time, would you?"
(at the beginning, it's like in a college classroom and the teacher is asking his students this question)
"For a week?" (the students almost unanimously said "yeah")
"A month?" (with slightly more hesitation, again almost all "yeah")
"A year?" (a bit more hesitation but again "yeah")
"10 years?" (now only about half the student says "yeah")
"Forever?" (this time almost unanimously they said "no definitely not")
The whole phrase goes like this:
"If your government said that it could keep you safe from terrorism and end terrorism if you would give up your freedoms for an amount of time, would you? For a week? A month? A year? 10 years?... Forever?"
Would you?
Moderator Action: Automatic 3 day ban for profanity
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Bozo Erectus
Master Baker
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If they cancel the election, it'll be the duty of every patriotic American to take up arms against the government. Hey Igloodude, lend me one of your assault rifles
zulu9812
The Newbie Nightmare
Dumb pothead said:If they cancel the election, it'll be the duty of every patriotic American to take up arms against the government. Hey Igloodude, lend me one of your assault rifles
You know that's actually the reason why guns are legal for civilians to own in the US. It's not to protect your property or person, it's to give you the means to overthrow your government, if necessary. And as I have previously stated, the original rebels overthrew us Brits for far less tyranny than George Bush Jr is displaying these days.
Bozo Erectus
Master Baker
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Zulu, Bush isnt a tyrant yet. He's working on it though. I dont know if we Americans have the stomach for the sort of guerrila warfare that has been working so well in Iraq against the overwhelmingly superior American military. I sure hope we never have to find out.
Bozo Erectus
Master Baker
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Im not into violence, so I'll be in the political wing of the resistance movement
(BTW Echelon, this is what we call humor, you dont need to make us strip and form naked pyramids, and Lynn Englande doesnt need to practice pointing at our genitals for the time being)
(BTW Echelon, this is what we call humor, you dont need to make us strip and form naked pyramids, and Lynn Englande doesnt need to practice pointing at our genitals for the time being)
Bozo Erectus
Master Baker
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Heated? What do you mean, we're just kidding!Chieftess said:Don't know if cancelling the elections would be enough to go up in arms (even a civil war?), but I think this thread is getting a little... heated to put it nicely. Let's not have CFC start a riot.
(wipes sweat from forehead) Who's heated? Im not heated (pssst, what are you trying to do, get us shipped to Gitmo??) I said shipped to Gitmo I love kidding around! (puts on a beret, jumps into a taxi and heads for the airport at high speed, tires squealing)
KingAlbert
Chieftain
Chieftess said:Don't know if cancelling the elections would be enough to go up in arms (even a civil war?), but I think this thread is getting a little... heated to put it nicely. Let's not have CFC start a riot.
Chieftess, I hope you meant 'postponing' and not 'cancelling', because cancelling the elections is the equivalent of a republican coup d'état. And then America we no longer be a democracy but a dictatorship.
Why does this administration wants to postpone elections in case of a terrorist attack? Remember Madrid. A terrorist attack two days before elections resulted in a major victory for the Anti-Iraq War Party. I think that hopes he still can lure the american people in voting for his him and is afraid that a Madrid scenario could endanger his re-election.
FearlessLeader2
Fundamentalist Loon
This much I can assure you. If, in late October, polls show Bush lacking an overwhelming lead, something on American soil is going to blow up real good.
samildanach
Necrophile
In Britain we delayed an election because of cows, once possibly twice IIRC.
Another well known tactic for delaying elections other than blaming contrary farmyard animals is to turn communist.
Yet another good one is to have a year zero and to declare that everything that went before didn't happen. Anyone that insists in remembering what went before gets thrown in a pit.
Another well known tactic for delaying elections other than blaming contrary farmyard animals is to turn communist.
Yet another good one is to have a year zero and to declare that everything that went before didn't happen. Anyone that insists in remembering what went before gets thrown in a pit.
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