UAW Strike

[Merkinball]

You can't just hire an migrant for this type of job. Some of these jobs require 100s of hours of experience. - Elta

No.

I'm pretty sure you could train monkey's, bears, and dolphins if they had opposable thumbs to do standard assembly line work. These people get paid outlandish sums of money, get all kinds of breaktime and benefits, to put screws into the same spot, over, and over, and over again, all day long. You can teach anybody, and I mean ANYBODY to do assembly line work. That's why so many of them have next to no education, and why we've moved so many assembly line plants down to Mexico.

 

[Elta]

An engineer isn't working on an assembly line. Nor would one fall under the union umbrella. They are a totally different section. And it would depend on what they are engineering. A drive drain engineer would need at least a 4 year or equivalent. And maybe a year or two in a dedicated automotive design. Multi-national auto makers have different markets. Ford for instance builds and sells cars in Brazil,Asia, Europe and AUS that you just can't get in North America. So the market there is better served by the designers being in the area. That Brazilian isn't designing the same Ford Focus that the guy in a Ford plant in Spain is. The biggest reason Ford is looking to Brazil is for a new bigger market share down there. They are setting up remote bases of operation. They all are. Toyota America is an example of the Japs setting up base in America. BMW has done it too along with Korea's Hyundia. These companies are doing great in America with non-union workers. Sure its cheaper to pay a lower wage but thats only a small portion of whats going on. The "Big 3" are looking to cut costs all over the place. Its the UAW thats giving them the most grief. In other places world wide labour costs aren't a problem like it is here.

Makes sense.

I know about the diff. car specs. for diff. countries F-150 is a lobo in mexico and noticably diff. in some areas. The reason I mentioned the Brazil thing is because they were talking about closing american plants and making the cars to be sold here in Brazil.

 

[Head Serf]

I have a strange feeling GM will be able to last a lot longer than the strikers.

 

[skadistic]

Makes sense.

I know about the diff. car specs. for diff. countries F-150 is a lobo in mexico and noticably diff. in some areas. The reason I mentioned the Brazil thing is because they were talking about closing american plants and making the cars to be sold here in Brazil.

Maybe parts factories or temp. final assembly. Whole cars would be cost prohibitive to ship in the long run. This would be a great idea to keep the flow going while retooling the US plants and cutting the union tether.

 

[Merkinball]

Also, don't think that those non-union workers in the Japanese auto plants are making paltry wages. They are still making 15-20 an hour. They're just not making the outrageously draining sums of money that people under UAW-GM are making. These people want everything handed to them on a silver platter, and the work low skill jobs, that anybody can do.

 

[innonimatu]

By all means do put those wishes of dissolving unions into practice. Do lower salaries. And do watch as an economy where people have already borrowed as much as they could finally crashes spectacularly, when consumers become unable to continue consuming.

 

[skadistic]

By all means do put those wishes of dissolving unions into practice. Do lower salaries. And do watch as an economy where people have already borrowed as much as they could finally crashes spectacularly, when consumers become unable to continue consuming.

Shows what you know about American unions. Unions have slowly been dissolving. Union membership has been on a steady decline. And as someone who runs a shop full of non-union employees I find your insulation that without unions wages wont be fair rather insulting. I pay my workers above union wages when its all said and done. Salaries will only lower in places where they are artificially high like UAW line workers. Would like to keep going? I can spend a few hours correcting you if you want.

 

[innonimatu]

Off course salaries won't be fair without unions, in many industries. Especially in very large companies than can more easily swap workers around (with the unemployment pool, and now with pools of workers in other countries) without unions. Why do companies like wall-mart fight a veritable war against unions? Because unions do lead to higher salaries.

Why have american average salaries not risen in the past few years, while corporate profits skyrocketed?

Your only possible argument against unions is that they may inflate salaries for their members too much, leading to bankruptcies or (more likely) transfer of businesses, and (perhaps, this has long been debated) slightly higher unemployment. But you won't be able to show that unions are useless for workers.

 

[luiz]

This sort of moronic behaviour by the UAW is precisely why Detroit is the craphole it is.

It would take a lunatic to build a new factory there. They should all be fired.

 

[Masquerouge]

Nope. The unions also are trying to eliminate secret voting.

Mmmh. Looks like the American unions are almost as bad as the French ones...

 

[skadistic]

Off course salaries won't be fair without unions, in many industries.Maybe 50 years ago. Thats just not true anymore.



Especially in very large companies than can more easily swap workers around (with the unemployment pool, and now with pools of workers in other countries) without unions.OMG! companies paying what they think is reasonable for the work done. How dare they.


Why do companies like wall-mart fight a veritable war against unions? Because unions do lead to higher salaries.unions also lead to less power for the companies. You know the actual people who own the companies including share holders. Unions transfer to much power to the workers who then run them into the ground. See GM and Ford.

Why have american average salaries not risen in the past few years, while corporate profits skyrocketed?Because thats not how it works in capitalism this isn't a socialist or communist set up. Can you show where it says profits have to be converted into higher pay? Maybe you don't understand how a business works.

Your only possible argument against unions is that they may inflate salaries for their members too much,That and their strong arm tactics, blacklisting, unfair trade practices, shady supply dealings, ruining companies, threatening non-union shops, or maybe the inflated union bosses wages and then there is the whole political underhandedness side of it. Like taking union dues and funding democrats disproportional to republicans despite what the works want. And don't you dare say they can't take that money out of your check, that is if you actually want to work leading to bankruptcies ruining businesses is just minor huh?or (more likely) transfer of businesses,Transfer to who? The union cash cow thats who. I've seen unions take shops down to the point the original owner goes belly up and then the unions best company ( most often owned by a union boss) comes in and buys it up and (perhaps, this has long been debated) slightly higher unemployment. But you won't be able to show that unions are useless for workers.

Every non-union shop shows that unions are useless for workers.

 

[Che Guava]

Also, don't think that those non-union workers in the Japanese auto plants are making paltry wages. They are still making 15-20 an hour. They're just not making the outrageously draining sums of money that people under UAW-GM are making. These people want everything handed to them on a silver platter, and the work low skill jobs, that anybody can do.

I suppose that a big problem witht eh amount of money spent per person by GM has to do with health costs, given the good benefits they receive. Just another little side benefit of national socialized medicine

 

[skadistic]

Mmmh. Looks like the American unions are almost as bad as the French ones...

I have idea how corrupt the Franco unions are but I'll make a small wager that the Americans are worse.

 

[Masquerouge]

I have idea how corrupt the Franco unions are but I'll make a small wager that the Americans are worse.

French unions are not that corrupt, I think, just terribly outdated and although only 10% of the French workforce is unionized, they have an incredible amount of power that's the result of a time where unions had to be protected... but the rules were never updated.

 

[skadistic]

I suppose that a big problem witht eh amount of money spent per person by GM has to do with health costs, given the good benefits they receive. Just another little side benefit of national socialized medicine

Yeah so tell me how did those unionized health worker in the Canadian cancer hospital do? Using cancer patients as a bargaining chip to get more pay, saying we strike and no patients get help here!?

 

[skadistic]

French unions are not that corrupt, I think, just terribly outdated and although only 10% of the French workforce is unionized, they have an incredible amount of power that's the result of a time where unions had to be protected... but the rules were never updated.

Thats where we are headed now. The unions lose members every year but power never goes down ( except the fractioning between the AFL and CIO). Now they are trying to steal power. An open vote system would lead to intimidation by the bosses.

 

[GinandTonic]

Universal health care = No more healthcare union desputes.

Not a powerful arguement, but true all the same.

 

[skadistic]

Universal health care = No more healthcare union desputes.

Not a powerful arguement, but true all the same.

What about the disputes of the unionized health care workers? I offer my workers health care. Health care in this instance is part of a overpaid union contract. They make enough to afford their own health care but they want it all. These guys make over $30 an hour and cry they can't afford insurance on their own.

 

[Che Guava]

What about the disputes of the unionized health care workers?

What does that have to do with anything? I'm sure they're not striking for health benefits...

I offer my workers health care. Health care in this instance is part of a overpaid union contract. They make enough to afford their own health care but they want it all. These guys make over $30 an hour and cry they can't afford insurance on their own.

...and if they got healthcare from the government, you could tell them to write thier congressman, and offer them a fair wage for both of you.

 

[GinandTonic]

What about the disputes of the unionized health care workers? I offer my workers health care. Health care in this instance is part of a overpaid union contract. They make enough to afford their own health care but they want it all. These guys make over $30 an hour and cry they can't afford insurance on their own.

All the more reason to take it from their taxes. If they are making enough to pay for health insuerance the scary men from the gov make sure they kick in. If they really cannt afford it, then they get what they need.