UN: Patch 1.74 Poll

[The Conquerer22]

finnaly, something useful,lol,not to put others down though

 

[Robi D]

I was still waiting on more responses although everyone seems to have made their minds up

I must say it is odd that i made an offer 3 weeks ago that was more than fair that with the exception of one team no one had a problem with. Yet in the end the one team that didn't agree will get exactly what they wanted and we get nothing. Ridiculous

 

[peter grimes]

...we get nothing.

Don't you think that getting the game moving again is something?

 

[Methos]

I don't have BtS so I hope that doesn't cause problems...

No, it won't. I talked to someone at Firaxis last week (on another matter) about the pre/post vanilla/warlords dll's. Legally it probably wouldn't be wise to just pass around the post patch dll for vanilla, but that doesn't mean someone can't create a modded dll that resembles the post BTS vanilla dll and pass it around to the teams.

 

[General_W]

Yet in the end the one team that didn't agree will get exactly what they wanted and we get nothing.

Like you, I feel really rotten that it's come down to this. But given the choice of patching (changing the rules mid-game) versus letting the game die, I think it's pretty understandable that most people (who have over a year invested in this game - first turn played on April 19th, 2006) voted to do what was necessary to finish.

As Epsilon and Innovia both indicated – we're still not opposed to patching this with some kind of mod to boost your Cossacks. It's just that no-one knows how to do this. If you could do some research into getting it done/find someone to do it – it looks like we'd have a majority to support doing that.

However – if it can't be done, or we can't find anyone to do it – I hope you'll understand that it's not personal and we all recognize that you're getting the short end of the deal. We're all just choosing worse over worst.

 

[Rik Meleet]

No, it won't. I talked to someone at Firaxis last week (on another matter) about the pre/post vanilla/warlords dll's. Legally it probably wouldn't be wise to just pass around the post patch dll for vanilla, but that doesn't mean someone can't create a modded dll that resembles the post BTS vanilla dll and pass it around to the teams.

Methos: can you inform your contact @ Firaxis about the problematic situation we are in and what they advise to do ?

I'm sure there is a proper solution that is fair for all, but we just haven't found it yet.

 

[robboo]

Its actually sad that you guys cant agree to a peace deal with us... you simply wont agree because you know as soon as the patch occurs you will have an advantage. Tell me I am lying since the deal is so woefully lopsided in your favor. (if my team wants I think we should post our peace deal to show everyone how petty you guys really are, looking for any advantage possible)

Anyone on other teams when placed in a similar position would agree with Aloha's position. Its pretty pathetic that fair play was never really considered in this "vote" I expected better from our game admins to ensure that all teams were treated equally. Its COMPLETELY unfair to allow game changing votes to be made when teams can bride and have alliances.

/my view not my teams

 

[Memphus]

If firaxis is involved then why can't they upgrade & provide a mod for the Cossacks?

 

[Memphus]

All this aside this is how to Ginger Knows how to Upgrade the game:

Okay, I just opened the most recent save just to see how this all works. I entered the admin password to open the save, but I still don't see where I "unlock" the save. Any help? Should I just contact Gyathaar?

You delete the text in the password box.. this unlocks the save
you dont have to play a turn

 

[Methos]

Methos: can you inform your contact @ Firaxis about the problematic situation we are in and what they advise to do ?

Sent and waiting for a reply.

If firaxis is involved then why can't they upgrade & provide a mod for the Cossacks?

We're not contacting Firaxis to creat a mod, but to make sure what were considering doing is legal.

 

[DaveShack]

Further detail on unlocking the game for a patch, if re-locking it is desired. Having an admin pw allows the admins to open the save without knowing the team's pw, that's the only difference I know about between locked and unlocked, in a MP game.

1. Open the game using the admin pw
2. Go to game options in the menu
3. Clear the admin pw in the resulting popup
4. Save the unlocked game
5. Open game in new patched version
6. Go to game options
7. Re-input admin pw
8. Save locked game
9. Forward locked game to current team.

As for the cossak thing, what's the difference between old and new? I could go search for it, but it would be easier if someone knows offhand.

 

[peter grimes]

New Cossaks are only +25% against mounted units, whereas the old cossacks were +50%.

Aloha is fielding Cossacks in a war with Piffle, who are fielding Cavalry.

 

[Memphus]

25% Reduction in thier (Cossack) bonus agaisn't other cavalry.

Aloha is concerned about thier war on Piffle and how this could swing it.

I already made an arguement here why anyone who attacks Aloha with Cavalry (with or with the patch) is looney tunes anyways...

So the other way of looking at it without revealing to much strategy of the game is:

Piffle and Aloha are at war right now. Piffle can build for their attack (defense) either Redcoats, or Cavalry. Knowing Aloha has + 50% versus any Cavalry Piffle would build I can't see them building anymore of that type of unit....

Even if the advantage was diminished to +25%, the Redcoat has a strength of 16 and a +25% bonus agaisn't mounted units...the logical choice to me is to build only redcoats.

The other option is for other teams to Attack Aloha in the next ~30 game turns before Cossacks become obsolete, well I know I can say for epsilon that sending over a Cavalry unit would be about the biggest waste of I can think of.

As it stands it doesn't make sense for anyone to attack Aloha with Mounted units with a 50% bonus or a 25% bonus because it is just a bad fighting situation.

So to me aloha takes one for the team and accepts and we patch up.

Again I can't answer for Piffle or aloha in thier war, but when was the last casulty that Piffle suffered on a Cavalry?

 

[peter grimes]

Anyone on other teams when placed in a similar position would agree with Aloha's position. Its pretty pathetic that fair play was never really considered in this "vote" I expected better from our game admins to ensure that all teams were treated equally. Its COMPLETELY unfair to allow game changing votes to be made when teams can bride and have alliances.

I completely agree with you, except for the part about the admins. They have contributed little to this discussion, and have been leaving it up to all of us to hammer out a mutually acceptable arrangement.

That said, it's all too easy to forget that this is just a game, and games are to be played for enjoyment. Right now, with the save stalling several times per round due to lack of turnplayers, it's not fun for anyone. It's also easy to forget that when the patch first came out, the almost unanimous opinion was that it was unfair to change the rules in the middle of the game, so we all opted to not patch. But since then, participation on some teams has fallen precipitously. And so here we are again.

I'd rather that we didn't have to patch to keep the game going, but it seems that I'm in a small minority. In a perfect world, this issue would never have arisen. But such is life.

Aloha has all my sympathy, and I sincerely wish there was a better solution.

 

[killercane]

Its actually sad that you guys cant agree to a peace deal with us... you simply wont agree because you know as soon as the patch occurs you will have an advantage. Tell me I am lying since the deal is so woefully lopsided in your favor. (if my team wants I think we should post our peace deal to show everyone how petty you guys really are, looking for any advantage possible)

Anyone on other teams when placed in a similar position would agree with Aloha's position. Its pretty pathetic that fair play was never really considered in this "vote" I expected better from our game admins to ensure that all teams were treated equally. Its COMPLETELY unfair to allow game changing votes to be made when teams can bride and have alliances.

/my view not my teams

You're lying .

Just kidding. Piffle isnt the one pushing the patch and has offered straight up peace. How is that lopsided?

 

[DaveShack]

I probably know how to mod it and make the new save accept the mod. Can't say for certain without testing. I'm thinking two command files to swap between the modded asset and the regular one. Opinions on this?

BTW I was just asking what stat changes, not for the whole history.

 

[DaveMcW]

I probably know how to mod it and make the new save accept the mod. Can't say for certain without testing.

The easiest mod would be to give all existing cossacks Formation, bringing them back up to 50% vs. cavalry. Newly built ones would be out of luck, but we wouldn't need to worry about asset checks.

 

[DaveShack]

The easiest mod would be to give all existing cossacks Formation, bringing them back up to 50% vs. cavalry. Newly built ones would be out of luck, but we wouldn't need to worry about asset checks.

That would require an editor which can modify MP saves. I know a few people who should have enough info on the save format to be able to do it. However, it's not surprising that they all seem pretty uninterested in actually doing it. It's actually quite surprising that similar methods of giving compensation have received any serious discussion, knowing the technical hurdle.

Unless you know someone more willing than I do, of course...

 

[Methos]

We could always just go to the C&C forums and ask someone how. Than one of us who feels willing (and has the time) can attempt it. Myself, I don't know how, nor do I believe I have the time.

However, it's not surprising that they all seem pretty uninterested in actually doing it.

This is a bit of a problem now adays.

 

[DaveShack]

New Cossaks are only +25% against mounted units, whereas the old cossacks were +50%.

I have an interesting finding on this. Where did the 25% vs 50% thing come from? Here's what I found in the actual XML files.

1.61
[pre]
<UnitCombatMods>
<UnitCombatMod>
<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_MOUNTED</UnitCombatType>
<iUnitCombatMod>50</iUnitCombatMod>
</UnitCombatMod>
</UnitCombatMods>

[/pre]

1.74
[pre]
<UnitCombatMods>
<UnitCombatMod>
<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_MOUNTED</UnitCombatType>
<iUnitCombatMod>50</iUnitCombatMod>
</UnitCombatMod>
</UnitCombatMods>
[/pre]