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UN: Patch 1.74 Poll

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Multi-Team Demogame' started by DaveMcW, Oct 15, 2007.

  1. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

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    So the patch notes were wrong!

    :rotfl:
     
  2. General_W

    General_W Councilor & Merlot Noble

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    UN-BE-LIEV-ABLE!

    So, I assume that means no further objections to patching?
     
  3. Robi D

    Robi D Minister of (Dis)Order

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    You have to be sh***ing me.

    Does this mean we held up on patching for nothing?:rolleyes:
     
  4. Robi D

    Robi D Minister of (Dis)Order

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    You fail to mention what the sticking point was.

    And for the record, the reason piffle rejected the peace/patch deal was they did not want to lose there galleon full of cavs which had been trapped by us after putting them where they didn't belong. We didn't feel we should let them go considering they attacked us hence no deal.
     
  5. Rik Meleet

    Rik Meleet Top predator Retired Moderator

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  6. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    Let's get patching then.
     
  7. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

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    Who would have guessed that the patch notes were wrong :rotfl:

    Let's get moving, then! :salute:
     
  8. Theoden

    Theoden Deity GOTM Staff

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    Unbelievable that someone didn't discover that sooner. :lol:

    The positive part is that we can patch while no one gets the short end of the stick. Problem solved. :)
     
  9. Joe Harker

    Joe Harker 1st in the Premiership!

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    Thats made my day! :lol: Lets get that patch!
     
  10. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    We're good.
     
  11. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

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    Looks like they are 15:strength: though, down from 18:strength:.

    So it's actually a bigger nerf, since they do worse against rifles too.
     
  12. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

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    :nono: but only 90 :hammers: to produce, instead of 120 :dunno:
     
  13. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    The second one is from BTS, which we're not going to play. We'll be playing 1.74, which, if everyone here understands it correctly has strength 18, +50% against mounted units.
     
  14. Theoden

    Theoden Deity GOTM Staff

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    Then everyone here doesn't understand it correctly, because looking through the vanilla 1.74 xml reveals this:
    Code:
    <iCombat>15</iCombat>
    So we got a new problem unfortunately.
     
  15. Memphus

    Memphus Deity

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    :( is this game ever going to move again?
     
  16. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

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    ...So is the 1.74 Cossack indeed 15:strength: +50% vs Mounted at a cost of 90:hammers:?

    If so, then we should still patch up - take a look at how many hammers yield how much strength:

    vs. Mounted
    1.74 Cossack = 22.5:strength: / 90:hammers: = .25:strength:/:hammers:
    1.61 Cossack = 27.0:strength: / 120:hammers: = .23:strength:/:hammers:

    vs. all others (minus cannon)
    1.74 Cossack = 15:strength: / 90:hammers: = .17:strength:/:hammers:
    1.61 Cossack = 18:strength: / 120:hammers: = .15:strength:/:hammers:

    In other words, the Cossacks are actually a better value under 1.74 numbers :crazyeye:

    We should still patch.
     
  17. Theoden

    Theoden Deity GOTM Staff

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    Not to be joy killer, but you can't really calculate that way. With the reduction of the strength from 18 to 15, the odds against, e.g. a rifleman, changes dramatically and you would need more than 120/90 = 1.333 times more cossacks to do the same amount of damage.

    To put it another way, is a fight between a spearman and two warriors even, since the warriors' combined strength is the same as the spearman's? The answer is of course no, because of the way the combat mechanics of the game work.

    edit: Found a calculator - the odds for a cossack against a rifleman with no defensive bonuses changes from 64% to 29% with the strength reduction.
     
  18. Robi D

    Robi D Minister of (Dis)Order

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    Do i dare ask what the odds against redcoats are
     
  19. Theoden

    Theoden Deity GOTM Staff

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    Against a redcoat the odds change from 31% to 22% with the strength reduction (a redcoat has strength 16, yes?)
     
  20. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

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    But you're still negecting the reduction in production cost. 120:hammers: in 1.61 is 33% more than the 90:hammers: in 1.74! That's a huge difference.

    And when you consider the combat odds posted above [Against a redcoat the odds change from 31% to 22% with the strength reduction] the post-patch Cossacks still come out better economically than the pre-patch Cossacks.

    Really the only thing I see that this impacts is the chances of developing a level 5 Cossack for West Point enabling.

    Let's patch up and get moving! :hammer2:
     

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