Unfortunate geographic losers

Racsoviale said:
I was more thinking about how the day/night cycle, which I believe a lot of studies have shown, affects the mental wellbeing of humans. And that the peoples who live so far to the north have a higher amount of depressions and so on.

That's not high on the list of things I worry about in life; then again, higher seasonal temperatures have a statistically significant relationship with increases in violence. I'm also sure the Scots, Irish and Welsh can attribute a substantial portion of their mental illnesses to having to live near the English.

Winner said:
England is quite easy to occupy once you get enough troops across the channel. As a country it's relatively flat, there are no major obstacles to advancing troops (rivers, mountain ranges) and it is very small. Wales or Scotland are harder to control due to their geography.

Getting the troops across is the problem. The last successful invasion of England was in 1688. The last successful attempt before then was in 1326. (It's a shame its so difficult but that's another issue entirely). :p

Otherwise the point is well made. England is terrible for defence. Then again, Wales and Scotland aren't much better. The geography militates against a unified defence in both cases. Since Wale's defensive perimeter is open at two ends, and because the Welsh are fissiparous buggers, a prospective enemy can divide and conquer facing one half of the small population at a time. While Scotlands isn't that much better and is moreover divided between a lowland core, which is accessible, and a worthless highlands which isn't. A canny invader just conquers the lowlands and lets the highlands wither on the vine for lack anything else to do. To make matters worse neither have had the population or the social organisation to make use of the terrain. Much as Switzerland for all its mountains hasn't historically been that effective of a blocking force. Sure, some cantons can block St. Gottards can be blocked but other cantons might be willing to cut a deal, at the expense of the others. This helps to explain the Protestant cantons position in the Thirty Years War: 'by all means by sympathetic to the Protestants, but let's not piss the Emperor off because Bad Things happen to people (The Three Leagues) who get in his way'.
 
Ha, I just realized that the EU has a greater (relative) forest coverage than the US. The Americans seem to be far better at deforestation it seems :lol:
 
Did you just call me a geographic loser?? :huh: j/k

but more serious:

How did you reach the conclusion that the Low Countries (I assume you refer to the whole Benelux with this or just The Netherlands?) should be included in the OP?

Daarom
 
Ha, I just realized that the EU has a greater (relative) forest coverage than the US. The Americans seem to be far better at deforestation it seems :lol:

Areas of the US have increasing forestation. But the differences are that the US has a far larger portion of areas that are high mountains and arid regions where trees won't grow even if all humans are removed. Much of the current deforestation is coming from indirect effects of climate change rather than direct effects of land clearing and lumber.
 
Did you just call me a geographic loser?? :huh: j/k

but more serious:

How did you reach the conclusion that the Low Countries (I assume you refer to the whole Benelux with this or just The Netherlands?) should be included in the OP?

We can start with protions being pawns between Spain, France, Britain, and Prussia/Holy Roman Empire for centuries.

Then there was that whole bit about being used as a door mat twice last century...
 
We can start with protions being pawns between Spain, France, Britain, and Prussia/Holy Roman Empire for centuries.

Then there was that whole bit about being used as a door mat twice last century...
How did any of that stem from the physical geography of the region?
 
We can start with protions being pawns between Spain, France, Britain, and Prussia/Holy Roman Empire for centuries.

Then there was that whole bit about being used as a door mat twice last century...

What Traitorfish said
and
I grant you the doormat :lol: But, especcially for WWII, do you think that the reason the Low Countries suffered was because of it's geographical position? I mean, all over the world nations/peoples suffered due to the war.
I would even argue that the geographic position made WWII "better" for the Low Countries (At least The Netherlands). Due to it's geographical position (well not directly, but with a long enough explanation you can conclude this) the Dutch were seen as brotheraryans and were better treated. (for the most part of the war)

I don't really know the extend of fighting in WWI but I guess it wasn't much different then.
 
The position of the Low Countries is a mixed blessing. It has always greatly promoted trade and agricultural development, but the lack of natural defences (well, the Dutch eventually learned how to use flooding and a maze of water canals to their advantage) attracted foreign invaders.

Unless the sea rises by 8 metres or so, the geographic position of the Low Countries can't be classified as being worse or better than most other places in Western Europe.
 
That's not high on the list of things I worry about in life; then again, higher seasonal temperatures have a statistically significant relationship with increases in violence. I'm also sure the Scots, Irish and Welsh can attribute a substantial portion of their mental illnesses to having to live near the English.



Getting the troops across is the problem. The last successful invasion of England was in 1688. The last successful attempt before then was in 1326. (It's a shame its so difficult but that's another issue entirely). :p

Otherwise the point is well made. England is terrible for defence. Then again, Wales and Scotland aren't much better. The geography militates against a unified defence in both cases. Since Wale's defensive perimeter is open at two ends, and because the Welsh are fissiparous buggers, a prospective enemy can divide and conquer facing one half of the small population at a time. While Scotlands isn't that much better and is moreover divided between a lowland core, which is accessible, and a worthless highlands which isn't. A canny invader just conquers the lowlands and lets the highlands wither on the vine for lack anything else to do. To make matters worse neither have had the population or the social organisation to make use of the terrain. Much as Switzerland for all its mountains hasn't historically been that effective of a blocking force. Sure, some cantons can block St. Gottards can be blocked but other cantons might be willing to cut a deal, at the expense of the others. This helps to explain the Protestant cantons position in the Thirty Years War: 'by all means by sympathetic to the Protestants, but let's not piss the Emperor off because Bad Things happen to people (The Three Leagues) who get in his way'.

Wasn't 1688 when parliament invited over an army and a Dutch king to take the throne? Does that really constitute a proper invasion? In that case the invading force didn't have to fight anybody!
Huh, I've never heard of 1326 another invasion of ENG according to wikipedia =O.
 
Wasn't 1688 when parliament invited over an army and a Dutch king to take the throne? Does that really constitute a proper invasion? In that case the invading force didn't have to fight anybody!
The reason that it isn't generally regarded as an "invasion" is because the term is associated with conquest or domination, rather than because it actually wasn't one. The fact that James' regime collapsed as quickly as it did reflects its instability, rather than offering any definition of the actions of his opponents; that would imply that actions are defined retroactively, in terms of the reactions they provoke, rather than in themselves.

Huh, I've never heard of 1326 another invasion of ENG according to wikipedia =O.
There were also a few minor landings here and there, although England saw very few of them compared to Scotland and Ireland, and I don't know how many could actually be meaningfully called "invasions". (You could also count Bonnie Prince Charlie's incursion during the '45 Rising, which was technically an invasion of England from Scotland, although that's obviously different that the sort of thing we're talking about here.) The British Isles have never been quite the impregnable fortress that the Victorians somehow fooled themselves into imagining that it was.
 
Meh, I'm not going to count Masada's examples and am going to retreat into the perverse, utopian Victorian view of Fortress England which hasn't been successfully invaded for 944 years. We are a 1,000 year success story :mischief:
 
Ha, I just realized that the EU has a greater (relative) forest coverage than the US. The Americans seem to be far better at deforestation it seems

They had always been less forested than Europe. Even before Europeans discovered North America.

Meh, I'm not going to count Masada's examples and am going to retreat into the perverse, utopian Victorian view of Fortress England which hasn't been successfully invaded for 944 years. We are a 1,000 year success story

Quite utopian:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=514223
 
England is quite easy to occupy once you get enough troops across the channel. As a country it's relatively flat, there are no major obstacles to advancing troops (rivers, mountain ranges) and it is very small. Wales or Scotland are harder to control due to their geography.
And how many times has a large army crossed the english channel in the past 500 years? Napoleon and Hitler most definitely would have invaded on a large scale if it wasn't for the channel.
 
I was going to mention Japan for it's lack of natural resources.
 
And how many times has a large army crossed the english channel in the past 500 years? Napoleon and Hitler most definitely would have invaded on a large scale if it wasn't for the channel.

Silly dictators, should have used the chunnel
 
Exactly, Japan had to conquer half of Asia to get it's materials for the economy!

I don't understand your first line though.
 
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