United Church of Christ endorses same-sex marriage

[puglover]

This is bad news. A Christian denomination endorsing sexual perversion clearly forbidden by God (no personal offense meant to any homosexuals on this forum).

 

[punkbass2000]

Believe it or not, I actually wrote, and sang a song about the non existence of God for a school project in 11th grade.

Whether or not it is directly comparable to the situation in the other thread I'm not sure, but I'd imagine the fact that you were 15/16 as opposed to 7/8 would play a fair role here.

 

[Hundegesicht]

Whether or not it is directly comparable to the situation in the other thread I'm not sure, but I'd imagine the fact that you were 15/16 as opposed to 7/8 would play a fair role here.

But the point still stands that I sang a song that quite blatently extolled the nonexistence of God in front of a class of almost entirely under-18 children. Whereas if I had decided to lead the class in a Christian hymn I probably would not have been allowed to do so, even if it were a solo.

(Admittedly, if it had been a project on, say, 19th century composers, it most likely would be allowed)

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

A Christian denomination endorsing sexual perversion clearly forbidden by God

I'll buy into the outrage when Christians start getting serious about those other sins I mentioned. Until then, it's a bit laughable for you to criticize anyone

 

[blackheart]

This is bad news. A Christian denomination endorsing sexual perversion clearly forbidden by God (no personal offense meant to any homosexuals on this forum).

What's worse news is a Christian denomination covering up sins of the flesh (against minors) of its priests.

 

[FredLC]

Believe it or not, I actually wrote, and sang a song about the non existence of God for a school project in 11th grade.

Actually, the song was for History about the concept of social evolution. The first 2 stanzas were dedicated to Darwin, the next 2 Nietche, the 5th to Marx, and the last to the late pope John Paul. (Who was current at the time of the singing)

The chorus after the first Nietche verse went "God is dead! Spread the news through all the lands! God is dead, and his blood is on our hands..."

Actually, I think I still have it on a floppy here if you want to read the rest of it. I got a 98%

Sounds curious, I'd like to have a look.

Anyway, was it song during a class, or in a talent show?

Regards .

 

[puglover]

I do think that Smidlee is right, that there is a falling away from Christ's message that has happened in modern times. My difference is: he's part of it.

If you actually read what Christ said and what his Apostles wrote in the New Testament, they are not friends of "family" in the same way they were not friends of the Roman Empire. The Apostles were heavily skeptical of every social institution that could create divisions within "Christ's community" or splinter loyalties to Him. That's why Paul writes that slaves are as much Christians as their masters, thereby implicitly undermining slavery. According to the Apostles, loyalty to Christ comes before loyalty to nation (patriotism), to your relatives (family), even to your spouse (marriage).

Smidlee's Christians are uncomfortable with that kind of spirituality. They use Christianity to REIFY & REINFORCE not to criticize existing social institutions.

They are today's equivalent of Southern Christians arguing before the Civil War that the Bible supported slavery.

If one of the chief features of the AntiChrist was to have been his homosexuality, you'd think Jesus would place more emphasis on homosexuality as a serious sin. But he doesn't.

Jesus doesn't storm into a brothel and throw out the whores. He storms into a temple and throws out the money-changers.

Jesus spends LOTS of time criticizing sins like venality, lust, greed, callousness, pedantry, corruption, and blind loyalty.

But because these are the sin's most often exhibited by the leaders of today, both secular and religious, modern Christians spend almost NO time criticizing them.

Instead they cling to a shallow spirituality which places sin in the loins and nowhere else. Sleeping with someone of the same gender will get you a one-way ticket to hell and a Fred Phelps monument, but a Watergate felon can be "born again" and welcomed as a Christian.

The neurotic obsessiveness of modern American Christians with sex is a way of repressing what they subconsciously know to be the true message of the Bible - a tirade against the sins I bolded.

The so-called Smidlee Spirituality runs exactly counter to Christ's message, and is indeed a "falling away from it."

I'd argue that it's not so much a decline as a return to the message of the Pharisees, but that's for another post.

It's not like I don't support cheaters, or give no attention to them. And homosexuals are not automaticlly doomed to Hell, they have as much of a chance to repent as any other sinner. I am not blind to corruption and greed, if that's what you are thinking.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

I'm not quite sure how one can argue that God is okay with homosexuality, just like he's not okay with murder or adultery. God is against homosexuality, and intends marriage to be between a man and a woman. Can someone please disprove this, if anyone can (which you can't)?

 

[CivCube]

I'm not quite sure how one can argue that God is okay with homosexuality, just like he's not okay with murder or adultery. God is against homosexuality, and intends marriage to be between a man and a woman. Can someone please disprove this, if anyone can (which you can't)?

This is like saying all black people are Nazis.

 

[blackheart]

I'm not quite sure how one can argue that God is okay with homosexuality, just like he's not okay with murder or adultery. God is against homosexuality, and intends marriage to be between a man and a woman. Can someone please disprove this, if anyone can (which you can't)?

Can you please prove this (which you can't)?

I would say God is okay with murder and adultery, since if he exists and is all-powerful, doesn't do anything to stop it from happening.

 

[downtown]

thats because God allows man to have agency, but thats a whole different thread.

 

[nonconformist]

I'm not quite sure how one can argue that God is okay with homosexuality, just like he's not okay with murder or adultery. God is against homosexuality, and intends marriage to be between a man and a woman. Can someone please disprove this, if anyone can (which you can't)?

I don't remember "Thou shalt not commit buggery" as one of the commandments.

 

[classical_hero]

Can you find one example in the Bible where Homosexuality is accepted?

 

[downtown]

I'll buy into the outrage when Christians start getting serious about those other sins I mentioned. Until then, it's a bit laughable for you to criticize anyone

What exactly do you mean by "getting serious"? Can you provide tangible examples? Im curious, because i think some denominations are.

 

[farting bob]

I don't remember "Thou shalt not commit buggery" as one of the commandments.

Anyway, my athiest view is this: If there was a god, he would want good honest people to be happy. Gay people do not choose to be gay, they just prefere the same sex. It does not harm anyone else, so god would not object to it. I think it should be possible to believe ion god and be allowed to worship him with other people whilst still following what your heart wants, even if thats 'against the norm'.

 

[Aphex_Twin]

This is bad news. A Christian denomination endorsing sexual perversion clearly forbidden by God (no personal offense meant to any homosexuals on this forum).

And I'd say because they are not "ordinary" people, they would not take offense into being called sexual perverts

 

[nonconformist]

Can you find one example in the Bible where Homosexuality is accepted?

Well, putting aside the fact that a number of Popes engaged in sodomy, that's a terrible argument.

Can you find one example in the Bible where electricity is accepted?
Or cars?
Or speaking English?

As far as I know, the Bible only opresses decent, pig eating, cotton and nylon wearing, beard trimming, long haired people.

Oh, but you're okay if you commit genocide

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

What exactly do you mean by "getting serious"? Can you provide tangible examples? Im curious, because i think some denominations are.

Pug says he's "not blind to corruption and greed" but I can't recall that he has never used the Bible to condemn them on this site. Whenever religious fundamentalists quote from the Bible, it's always on issues like creationism or gay marriage.

The few times I have been unlucky enough to find myself inside a hardline evangelical Christian church, I never heard sermons against greedy business, political corruption, or the other targets of Jesus's own diatribes.

It seems to me that churches target gays because they are a soft, easy target. They have no official organization; few evangelicals are gay; and preaching against gays stokes outrage without requiring any inner reevaluation or outward action. Businesses and politicians on the other hand can defend themselves and sermons against corruption and greed force contemplation and perhaps even reformation on the part of the audience.

Homosexuality is not accepted by the Bible, but that doesn't mean it is the be-all and end-all of Christian antagonism. The Bible very definitely says that sin stems from man's agency for individual choice; therefore since gayness is not a choice, it cannot be a sin. And before you throw the extreme analogies at me, I also believe that insane psychotics are not morally responsible for their murders. They should be punished by the law, but they can only answer to God for what they chose to do. At least, according to the Bible.

I think it should be possible to believe ion god and be allowed to worship him with other people whilst still following what your heart wants, even if thats 'against the norm'.

Well, the Dharmic religions (Buddhism, Hinduism, and Sikhism among them) wisely advise that there are many paths to a "unitary truth." I believe that moral atheism, which regards God as a useful hypothetical construct (along the lines of "What Would Jesus Do?") is among those paths. Others might disagree.