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Up for an expansive game?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by RRRaskolnikov, Nov 15, 2013.

  1. pomthom

    pomthom Drive & Reverb

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    Sure, I'd be glad to. Or I can just step in until you're available or something. :dunno:

    Whatever works for everyone, I think Killroyan also mentioned he might want to play
     
  2. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    Oh sorry, killroyan! Basically, since I will be busy until mid-December, I am happy to let someone take my official place in the roster if they are able to play. I will actively lurk and comment in the meantime.
     
  3. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    Fact- archers won't invade our territory for a while still

    Fact- the earlier the 2nd city is up the better for our economy

    Fact- a single warrior can sit on the gold hill (for instance) and scout for barbarians while the settler moves within scouting range

    The evidence is clear- start (and finish) settler on size 3 and keep warrior alive

    "The best way forward is the precise yet dangerous approach." - Mikhail Tal (chess player)
     
  4. pomthom

    pomthom Drive & Reverb

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    What about RRRaskolnikov's suggestion about settling 2E of Wheat vs 2E1N of Wheat? He has a point about sharing low :food: tiles as not being very powerful but it does help city 2 contribute sooner better faster stronger.

    Fact- settling 2E1N also destroys a forest

    The evidence is not so clear-

    I have a tendency to barb-panick, but in fact I agree that getting settler out soonest is the superior, like Rusten said.

    "I am not afraid of death, I just don't want to be there when it happens." - Woody Allen
     
  5. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    Yes, I too prefer settling without the cow overlap. Bound to be good tiles to the south there that's useful to pick up.
     
  6. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    I do not trust the barb to leave us alone. One opponent already has 3 cities if a couple of more AIs get a third city the barbs will start invading.
     
  7. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    Maybe you're right, it is 3000 BC already. Too much of a risk -- at least for a SG.
     
  8. pomthom

    pomthom Drive & Reverb

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    Oh who's barb-panicking now?? :lol:

    Doing some calculations on Settler turn in boths scenarios...
     
  9. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    I'm sorry I have been a little slow. I will post a PPP tomorrow morning.

    How long should I play, until we have the settler?
     
  10. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    Around 15-20 turns to a natural stopping point at this stage I think.
     
  11. pomthom

    pomthom Drive & Reverb

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    Hmm I think pigswill's suggestion actually gives a Settler same turn (~36) than just stagnating at size 3 (with no chop nor 1-pop whip)

    Turn 26
    - City grows to size 3
    - 3 turns to Archery
    - Worker moves to Cows
    - Food bin: [3 :food: stored]
    - Queue: Settler - [0 :hammers: stored] + 5 :hammers: + 4 :food: surplus​
    Turn 27
    - 2 turns to Archery
    - Worker improves Cows 1/4
    - Food bin: [3 :food: stored]
    - Queue: Settler - [9 :hammers: stored] + 5 :hammers: + 4 :food: surplus​
    Turn 28
    - 1 turn to Archery
    - Worker improves Cows 2/4
    - Food bin: [3 :food: stored]
    - Queue: Settler - [18 :hammers: stored] + 5 :hammers: + 4 :food: surplus​
    Turn 29
    - You discover Archery! -the evidence is clear
    - Worker improves Cows 3/4
    - Food bin: [3 :food: stored] + 4 :food:
    - Queue: Archer - [0 :hammers: stored] + 5 :hammers:
    --------- Settler - [27 :hammers: stored]​
    Turn 30
    - Worker improves Cows!
    - Food bin: [7 :food: stored] + 5 :food:
    - Queue: Archer - [5 :hammers: stored] + 7 :hammers:
    --------- Settler - [27 :hammers: stored]​
    Turn 31
    - Worker moves to Pigs 1/2
    - Food bin: [12 :food: stored] + 5 :food:
    - Queue: Archer - [12 :hammers: stored] + 7 :hammers:
    --------- Settler - [27 :hammers: stored]​
     
  12. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    WOW - if I knew the start would be this UNREAL I might have played my first deity game.
     
  13. pomthom

    pomthom Drive & Reverb

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    Turn 32
    - Worker moves to Pigs 2/2
    - Food bin: [17 :food: stored] + 5 :food:
    - Queue: Archer - [19 :hammers: stored] + 7 :hammers:
    --------- Settler - [27 :hammers: stored]​
    Turn 33
    - Worker improves Pigs 1/4
    - Food bin: [22 :food: stored] + 5 :food:
    - Archer completes! -the empire sighs of relief
    - Queue: Archer? - [0 :hammers: stored] + 7 :hammers: + 1 :hammers: OF
    --------- Settler - [27 :hammers: stored]​
    Turn 34
    - City grows to size 4
    - Worker improves Pigs 2/4
    - Food bin: [1 :food: stored]
    - Queue: Settler - [27 :hammers: stored] + 8 :hammers: + 5 :food: surplus
    --------- Archer? - [8 :hammers: stored]​
    Turn 35
    - Worker improves Pigs 3/4
    - 2-pop Whip 4 -> 2 (city works Corn + Cows I assume?)
    - Food bin: [1 :food: stored]
    - Queue: Settler - [40 :hammers: stored] + 4 :hammers: + 7 :food: surplus + 60 :hammers: Whip
    --------- Archer? - [8 :hammers: stored]​
    Turn 36
    - Worker improves Pigs!
    - Settler is out! -and danses the jig
    - City works Corn + Pigs
    - Food bin: [1 :food: stored] + 9 :surplus:
    - Queue: ? + 13 :hammers: OF
    --------- Archer? - [8 :hammers: stored]​

    Of course if you put a chop in the Settler rather than improving the Pigs, stagnating at size 3 is the superior in terms of coming out date...

    Fact- my math may well be completely out of it...
     
  14. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    Whipping away resources does not necessarily pay back, especially without a Granary.

    It is usually best to settle the second city as soon as possible. However, if this means that you must whip away the Cow and the Gold, the capital comes out with +1 :food: -6 :hammers: -7 :commerce: per turn until it regrows to size 3 (+4 :food: -24 :hammers: -28 :commerce: , by the looks of it), and then -1 :food: -3:hammers: until it regrows to size 4 (+1 :food: -33 :hammers: -28 :commerce: total?). Will settling a second city 3–4 turns sooner compensate for this?

    Perhaps a 1-pop Settler whip @ size 4? That way the capital can continue to work the Gold and grow back onto the Cows.
     
  15. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    @ Pomthom: Dat's wot I thot.

    If we get 10 turn settler we'll still have 6 turns (+/-1) before pottery.

    I pop whip at pop4 adds 3 turns.

    Blimey, and I thought sgotm was microtastic.
     
  16. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    Indeed. Relax guys!

    Regular SGs thrive on deep strategical discussion, not extreme micro-management.
    Beyond the very first turns it's best to keep it broad.
     
  17. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    excellent discussion folks! keep up the good work!

    I am just back home, I will comment in further details in a few.

    @Doshin: sorry to hear you can't play, I'll put you in reserve in case your schedule becomes lighter in the future.
     
  18. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    Yep, I'm not abandoning ship, but don't want to waste a player slot if someone else want to jump in. :)
     
  19. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    no worries. :)

    @pomthom: I PMed killroyan since he posted first, but if he doesn't show up or wanna stay on the lurking side, I'll put you in the roster. I hope that's ok with you.
     
  20. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    This. I am willing to take the turn cost on the settler to keep working the bonus tiles. We can always emergency whip if we spot Izzy's settler party.

    @pomthom: If I am reading you correctly, it's a 3 turn delay on settler (whipping 4 to 3), we thus could use the worker turns to chop a forest before moving on improving the pigs (the chop should come together with the completion of the settler), giving us a production boost for a one turn worker or unit, without puting capital (how about we rename it "The Evidence"?) development at risk (the worker can still improve the pig while regrowing size 4)

    @Folket: there is no rush. Usual rule on SG is 24h to get it/ 48 more to play... and what Rusten said for turnset length :)

    What did Sulla used to say? "better to be lucky than good" something like that anyway :goodjob:
     

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