Update incoming

[Kruos]

I think they're trying to emulate Blizzard's Overwatch Developer Updates, where its the lead designer doing the videos.

I like Ed's delivery though.

Yes Ed is cool, and when it's Ed speaking, you know that he knows what he is speaking of, he radiates mastery.

 

[Ferocitus]

Yes Ed is cool, and when it's Ed speaking, you know that he knows what he is speaking of, he radiates mastery.

Yeah, like this but not shifty.

 

[Athmos]

https://twitter.com/CivGame/status/970720860670713857

Link to youtube video in tweet.

From Ed's mouth to our ears:
- UI updates
- Post-game timeline review
- Balance changes: new effects for entertainment districs
- Balance changes: polders can be placed next to hills
- Balance changes: fixing loopholes in warmonger system
- Balance changes: experience cap for fighting free cities
- Balance changes: tweaks to loyaly system to prevent emergencies from ending when a city flips owners
- Production bonus to city-states to build walls + higher starting defense
- Other features not mentionned

Patch notes to come

UI updates sounds great. I really hope they'll get around to fixing the various refresh bugs where the UI is not displaying the right data, or that they'd get around to actually displaying multiplier policy bonuses in the UI.

The balance changes mentioned sound great, this is looking like it's going in the right direction.

 

[PhilBowles]

I don't see what's strong with Netherlands other than polders.

River adjacency bonuses come online right at the start of the game and provide a significant boost, and apply to both science and production. They also have a good UU.

Answer exactly the same, I believe. The amount of work is on totally different scale.

They generated this behaviour only fairly recently (they were doing it before Rise & Fall, though not to quite the same degree, but not before the last pre-R&F patch). It shouldn't be hard to reverse the behavioural change they coded then since they should already have a record of what parts of the code and what values they altered.

 

[Disgustipated]

Remember, it will probably break saved games!

I'm happy that we will get this fixes that the game desperately need relatively soon but I really hope it won't mess with my save too much, I won't be able to finish the game I started this week =(

I just started a long game with mods, I sure hope I can finish it in time. I disabled all victory conditions except time and conquest, so I have no choice but to conquer the world (Expanded Earth mod). I don't want the fun to end (disclaimer: conquering the world is evil and stuff and should not be encouraged)

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Is that because you only play at a pace and on maps where
that happens often?

No, the era pace is badly designed. The usual pace of a normal player from ancient to information ranges from 120~180 turns standard speed, depend on map and Civ conditions, that's a huge range. But 280 is definitely out of range.

Definition of normal player: A player with normal intelligence, knows the game well, and not focusing only on speed but also focus on some other interesting features.

If you consider "reverse time"-- the time when humanity begin from nonsense to flying to Mars, plus the time people on Mars developed their own techs and affinities and return to Earth, 280 is a fair amount.

 

[nzcamel]

No, the era pace is badly designed. The usual pace of a normal player from ancient to information ranges from 120~180 turns standard speed, depend on map and Civ conditions, that's a huge range. But 280 is definitely out of range.

Definition of normal player: A player with normal intelligence, knows the game well, and not focusing only on speed but also focus on some other interesting features.

If you consider "reverse time"-- the time when humanity begin from nonsense to flying to Mars, plus the time people on Mars developed their own techs and affinities and return to Earth, 280 is a fair amount.

Well they need to change that. People want 450 to 500 turns-ish on standard, so that's no good!

 

[Ozymandias9891]

That's for the Canada/inuit DLC

Actually, Canada will get the Sugar Shack in forested tundra tiles and the ice hockey rink in snow tiles

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Actually, Canada will get the Sugar Shack in forested tundra tiles and the ice hockey rink in snow tiles

There can't be a sugar shack in a world full of pine trees

 

[God of Kings]

There can't be a sugar shack in a world full of pine trees

That's why there should be Deciduous Woods!

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

No, the era pace is badly designed. The usual pace of a normal player from ancient to information ranges from 120~180 turns standard speed, depend on map and Civ conditions, that's a huge range. But 280 is definitely out of range.

Agreed.

I find the era pace is fairly well balanced with era score accumulation, especially considering this is the first release of this system. There's some fine tuning that could be done now that they have live data, but I thought the developers got the balance pretty good for a new mechanic.

The problem is that the era pace is out of sync with the speed at which you move through the research and civics trees. The developers tried to link the two by providing a range of turns that an era could last. The problem is that the lower bound is too high at current progression speeds based on my experience (Emperor to Deity games, standard speed, standard to large maps).

To me, the answer is to continue to slow down tech and civic progression, to bring it in line with the era progression. Shortening the eras would throw off the balance with era scores, so I prefer delaying the accumulation of techs and civics. There are a lot of ways that could be done. I'd argue for a combination of:

• adding some new techs / civics, especially on paths with big era jumps
• increasing the cost progression of later techs / civics
• increasing the bonus for researching "behind era" techs / civics and increasing the malus for researching "ahead era" techs / civics

 

[Leyrann]

No, the era pace is badly designed. The usual pace of a normal player from ancient to information ranges from 120~180 turns standard speed, depend on map and Civ conditions, that's a huge range. But 280 is definitely out of range.

Definition of normal player: A player with normal intelligence, knows the game well, and not focusing only on speed but also focus on some other interesting features.

If you consider "reverse time"-- the time when humanity begin from nonsense to flying to Mars, plus the time people on Mars developed their own techs and affinities and return to Earth, 280 is a fair amount.

Can you please just accept that your standard gameplay =/= a normal player's standard gameplay? I myself typically play on Immortal or Deity, which probably puts me far above the average player*, and yet my standard information era is about 250 turns in. You are much better than the average player, and there's nothing wrong with that, but please, for the love of god, stop continuously implying on this forum that you are the average player. You're NOT.

*For reference, 37.8% of the players on Steam has won a game (using the Settler or harder achievement as stat for that, as any win will trigger the achievement) while only 4.2% of the players has won on Deity, meaning that about one in every nine players plays at the same difficulty I play at. Of course, this is excluding people who don't finish games, but that's only favorable to your argument.

 

[Phoenix1595]

Glad that they are listening to us and addressing player concerns. If I may add one before the patch comes out: in the excitement of R&F's release, they forgot to include the Inca. Silly Ed! Remember when you totally said in every single FL and livestream video that they were coming? I'm sure it was an oversight. Just put them in with the patch this week, and all will be forgiven. Thanks!

 

[tedhebert]

I myself typically play on Immortal or Deity, which probably puts me far above the average player*, and yet my standard information era is about 250 turns in.

Pretty much the same here honestly... between 200 and 250 is more my normal pace... mostly on immortal... and I consider myself a slightly better than average to good player...

 

[Disgustipated]

I'm on turn 244 and only researching my first modern civic (still not there on techs yet). This is on epic speed, however. Era pace has been fine for me. Only game it was weird was when I was competing against Korea with science and her and I pushed the eras quite fast because of our fast research, nearly everyone was ending up in a dark age.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

To keep on par with the Water Park here's what I think the Entertainment Complex buildings will do now:
Arena- will stay the same
Zoo- add science to rainforest tiles/camps in this city.
Stadium-add two tourism.

 

[Ferocitus]

No, the era pace is badly designed. The usual pace of a normal player from ancient to information ranges from 120~180 turns standard speed, depend on map and Civ conditions, that's a huge range. But 280 is definitely out of range.

Definition of normal player: A player with normal intelligence, knows the game well, and not focusing only on speed but also focus on some other interesting features.

If you consider "reverse time"-- the time when humanity begin from nonsense to flying to Mars, plus the time people on Mars developed their own techs and affinities and return to Earth, 280 is a fair amount.

I'm not disputing that there aren't problems with the mismatch, but with so many
combinations of pace, levels, number of civs, map sizes, and other factors, and
no real data (let alone standard deviations) the notion of an average player is
almost meaningless.
Even trying to come up with some rational definition of average for each level,
from lowest to highest, is fraught.

 

[Duuk]

I'm a casual/normal player, and my wins are usually around turn 325. If I cap out the tech/civic tree it's around turn 350.

So people saying they "always win" around turn 180 blow my mind. I can't wrap my brain around that.

 

[liv]

So the conclusion is everyone is a normal player

 

[thecrazyscot]

No, the era pace is badly designed. The usual pace of a normal player from ancient to information ranges from 120~180 turns standard speed, depend on map and Civ conditions, that's a huge range. But 280 is definitely out of range.

Definition of normal player: A player with normal intelligence, knows the game well, and not focusing only on speed but also focus on some other interesting features.

If you consider "reverse time"-- the time when humanity begin from nonsense to flying to Mars, plus the time people on Mars developed their own techs and affinities and return to Earth, 280 is a fair amount.

Nope. Dunno why you continue to insist on pulling assertions out of thin air.