Use of Chemical Weapons in Syria

[Antilogic]

I can't link that one, though... forum rules.

There should be an exception, but only for that song.

 

[Defiant47]

Update

Syria says it welcomes a Russian proposal to place its chemical weapons under international control and then destroy them, in the Mideast country's first tacit acknowledgment that it possesses such munitions, but neither Damascus nor Moscow offered a time frame or any other specifics for the plan.

The statement Monday by Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al-Moallem appeared to mean that diplomatic efforts to end Syria's 2½-year civil war were gaining momentum. But it remained to be seen whether it represented a genuine goodwill gesture by Syria or simply an attempt by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad to buy more time before a possible French or U.S. military attack.

"Syria welcomes the Russian proposal out of concern for the lives of the Syrian people, the security of our country and because it believes in the wisdom of the Russian leadership that seeks to avert American aggression against our people," al-Moallem said during a visit to Moscow, where he held talks with his Russian counterpart, Sergey Lavrov.

Moallem, who spoke to reporters through an interpreter after Russia expressed hope the proposal could avert military strikes against Syria, stopped short of saying explicitly that Assad's government accepted it.

He would not give any further details in his brief statement and didn't take any questions from reporters.

Russia said earlier Monday it is willing to push Syria to place its chemical weapons under international control and then dismantle them, in Moscow's strongest concession yet in the three weeks since the Assad regime allegedly deployed a lethal nerve agent against its own citizens.

Russia's proposal confirmed for the first time from Syria's most important international ally that the Syrian government possesses chemical weapons, and Moallem's welcome was a tacit acknowledgment.

Russia's foreign minister said that if Russia's proposal would help avert a possible U.S. strike on Syria, Russia will start work "immediately" to persuade Syria to relinquish control over its chemical arsenals.

The U.S. State Department said it would take a "hard look" at the Russian idea, but would treat it with "serious skepticism" because it might be a stalling tactic and because Syria has consistently refused to destroy its chemical weapons in the past.

In New York, United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon advocated similar measures to Russia's plan, saying he may ask the Security Council to demand Syria move its chemical arms stocks to sites where they can be safely stored and destroyed.

Ban said he may also ask the 15-country body to demand that Syria join the international anti-chemical weapons convention, a treaty that Damascus has never signed.

"Two and half years of conflict in Syria have produced only embarrassing paralysis in the Security Council," Ban said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/09/09/syria-russia-china-us-strike.html

Discussion

I can't believe it. This might just be what's needed to avoid war. I hope so hard that this happens...

 

[danjuno]

I hope so.

 

[Antilogic]

Discussion

I can't believe it. This might just be what's needed to avoid war. I hope so hard that this happens...

Saw this on the TV earlier but didn't have a link to post. There is a real possibility now that something can get through the UN Security Council. Alternatively, it could be accomplished through back channels without a formal vote.

I think a deal like this is the only real way for the US to save face now, hopefully it's taken.

 

[r16]

Bella ciao
Meet sniper Guevara

if she's the one Al Crusading had on TV a year back , she surely must have improved in time , because in the newscast she was visibly concerned about putting the rifle butt to her cheek for it would recoil . And yeah , ı have heard it that women actualy make great snipers .

 

[Borachio]

I can't link that one, though... forum rules.

I can't see what forum rule I'm breaking, but I daresay I'll find out.


Link to video.

Is there a rule against puppetry?

 

[REDY]

To be fair, I refer to the Syrian Communist Party.

Specifically, This 2 year-old statement by the Syrian CP

Sent via mobile.

Good point. From what I have googled there are three communist parties all incorporated in coalition with ruling Arab Ba'ath Party but hating each other.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Saw this on the TV earlier but didn't have a link to post. There is a real possibility now that something can get through the UN Security Council. Alternatively, it could be accomplished through back channels without a formal vote.

I think a deal like this is the only real way for the US to save face now, hopefully it's taken.

Save face? More like claim credit because the only thing that made a diplomatic solution viable is the threat of US force. But then again, King Obama and stuff.

 

[Arachnofiend]

Save face? More like claim credit because the only thing that made a diplomatic solution viable is the threat of US force. But then again, King Obama and stuff.

I'm pretty sure Assad is more worried about Russia potentially joining in on sanctions than anything America does.

Assad has one great ally that is keeping his regime propped up, he's going to do what he must to appease Putin.

 

[capslock]

The threat of an unbelievably small attack will scare them (and Iran, N Korea, ect) into quick capitulation no doubt.


We are the laughing stock of the world over this.

 

[Antilogic]

I can't see what forum rule I'm breaking, but I daresay I'll find out.

...

Is there a rule against puppetry?

The theme song we were talking about has the chorus line "AMERICA! Eff yeah!" It's a pretty hirarious movie if you have the chance to watch it.

Save face? More like claim credit because the only thing that made a diplomatic solution viable is the threat of US force. But then again, King Obama and stuff.

It was clear Obama was struggling to get the votes he needed in Congress before Monday, so I'm not sure how credible the threat of force was.

 

[Formaldehyde]

The threat of an unbelievably small attack will scare them (and Iran, N Korea, ect) into quick capitulation no doubt.


We are the laughing stock of the world over this.

Do you really think worldwide opinion to this proposed action is any different than the US, which is massively opposed to it?

The "laughing stock" aspect appears to be if we go ahead with this plan.

 

[Antilogic]

Wait, which plan? There are so many now we need to be specific.

 

[capslock]

It doesn't matter if we do or don't at this point, the whole thing has been a total embarrassment from red line to cheerio fork.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

I still think this is smoke and mirrors. We'll see.

Saddam and Qaddafi got rid of their WMDs and it didn't save them.

Sent via mobile.

 

[Lord Baal]

Saddam and Gaddafi also didn't have nearly as much outside backing, nor the military potential of Assad. They also couldn't claim any moral high ground, whereas Assad most certainly can, and is.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

Saddam and Gaddafi also didn't have nearly as much outside backing, nor the military potential of Assad. They also couldn't claim any moral high ground, whereas Assad most certainly can, and is.

Correct-a-mundo!
But Saddam and Qaddafi did everything they were asked to do -- Qaddafi even participated in the War on Terror as a detention center for terror suspects.

And yes, Qaddafi and Saddam were no friends to the Communists.

Sent via mobile.

 

[Ajidica]

And yes, Qaddafi and Saddam were no friends to the Communists.

Well, they were both quite happy to cozy up to the Soviets when it came to weaponry. I remember reading that military commentators were quite interested to see what would happed when Saddam's largely Soviet-supplied army came up against Revolutionary Iran's largely Anglo-American supplied army.
Until Saddam began receiving American assistance in response to the military successes of Revolutionary Iran, his only allies consisted of the Soviets, maybe some Non-Aligned Movement support, and whatever 'Arab Nationalism' zombie he could dig out of the trash can in time for negotiations.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

Yeah, Saddam, Sadat, et al got some good hardware out if the deal -- and Egypt still gets $1.5 billion a year from the US for their army.

NOT a big fan myself of Soviet 1970s foreign policy.

Sent via mobile.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I'm pretty sure Assad is more worried about Russia potentially joining in on sanctions than anything America does.

Assad has one great ally that is keeping his regime propped up, he's going to do what he must to appease Putin.

Russia will do no such thing and has not eveb threatened to in the event Assad doesnt hand over his weapons. The only thing stopping him from reneging on the deal is the spectre of attacks he can't stop.

The threat of an unbelievably small attack will scare them (and Iran, N Korea, ect) into quick capitulation no doubt.


We are the laughing stock of the world over this.

Yeah yeah yeah King Obam, got you. Of course even though the evidence supports the fact that we now have potential diplomatic solution because of the threat of force, it doesn't count because reasons. Since america and obama suck so bad and the strike was such a stupid idea, we can't go and give it any credit for opening up a potential non-violent solution because reasons and tyrantface Barack Hussein Obama.

Thats how stupid this conversation has gotten, facts don't matter, reason and logic are useless for your greater goal. All that matters is FORUM RAGE - we hate drone stikes, we hate NSA, we hate Dictator Extradinaire Dear Leader Obama's plan to bomb Assad and help Al Qaeda! HE DOES NOTHING
GOOD

It was clear Obama was struggling to get the votes he needed in Congress before Monday, so I'm not sure how credible the threat of force was.

Eh, he doesn't actually need the vote and all the talk on CSpan has been about how they think Obama would do the strike anyways. But either way, that's beside the point I was making. The threat of force opened this possibility - up until Sunday Assad was denying even having chemical weapons. He has been warned off using them in the past and that didn't work. He has been sanctioned to hell and back and that didn't work. But then the US Navy starts identifying targets and positioning for ab attack he can't stop or respond to and suddenly he's willing to admit they exist AND hand them over. But then again I must be totally crazy to think that cuz forum consensus says Obama loves Al Qaeda.

Oh, and if Assad backs out of this deal - that would make Congress far more likely to back an attack. In fact the leaders of the house and senate are already working language to that affect into the force authorization bill and I think that will likely pass even if a straight force authorization won't.