Version 2.8beta

[zappara]

First, I'm happy that on the 4th upload attempt the beta finally worked

It works but there is NO RoM folder to put it all into if you use a different area to put it in. I dont put it in the mods folder cause it overrides some of the maps. And the BUG mod overrides some of the python there.

There is Rise of Mankind in the installation path - look at the suggested installation path. However because the installer can't locate BtS installation folder, I used the same path that Firaxis used for installing Civ 4 and BtS. Of course you need to change the installation path to point to the correct folder and the path must include '\Mods\Rise of Mankind' in it or the mod won't work. I tried to make the installer look registry for BtS location but I couldn't find the correct entry so I left the installer use my manually defined path.

There was 2nd reason why I made it this way. If the installer had already 'Rise of Mankind' folder included in the filepaths and the mod was installed to 'Beyond the sword\Mods\' folder, then when used uninstaller it deleted everything from Mods folder so I couldn't use this method as it would have deleted all the mods from that folder. Now, because you have to put 'Rise of Mankind' in the installation path, the uninstaller goes to correct place and only deletes my mod from the Mods folder ie. it works correctly.

 

[dexter_inside]

I tried to make the installer look registry for BtS location but I couldn't find the correct entry so I left the installer use my manually defined path.

There are also some people (like me) who just run Civ4 from an external driver without installing it on multiple computers. It's quite fine to enter the path manually IMO

 

[zappara]

There are also some people (like me) who just run Civ4 from an external driver without installing it on multiple computers. It's quite fine to enter the path manually IMO

Yes, I thought so too. I also have BtS installed to non-default location so I have to change the path manually too if I want to install my mod - I actually do this for any game + program I install to my computer.

1 small bug.
Jungle Camp can be built almost everywhere, including grassland, plains etc. Yes without a jungle on top...

I'll have to check that. I just included vincentz modmod, didn't really check the xml for it so didn't notice this flaw.

@Everyone having interface issues

Make sure you install the beta to correct location ie. '..\[beyond the sword installation folder]\Mods\Rise of Mankind'. Any other folder won't work.

@CTD issues

Just saying there's CTD issue doesn't help me at all. If you can, post logs and saved game. Even with those I have very little chance of locating the actual cause (if it's caused by the mod and not your computer memory) as it's like looking for needle in haystack.

I'm having a ctd problem that isn't reoccuring with each save but occurs very frequently and I've found it has something to do with the Trade Caravan unit. This has been an issue for me since 2.7 and I only had the ctds when I either was building the caravans or using them. The AI never has had them.

Hmm, can't think of any reason why those units would cause problems but I'll test them out.

Zappara uses the original RevolutionDCM 2.51 dll that comes with the mod and merged it into his (Zappara's) mod.

I merged in CAR into the RevDCM sources, then compiled the dll and uploaded it in my modmod pack.

For the next RevDCM release, since it already has Better BtS AI merged in as usual, the BBAI team is currently working on merging what they judge to be good parts of CAR into their dll. After that, Glider1 will merge in THAT into the rest of his pack. Then after that Zappara will merge in the dll into his mod.

Long story short: Final 2.8 version of RoM will have the dll of RevDCM that will have portions of CAR merged in. So in the meantime, use my dll that only have the original RevDCM sources and CAR or use Afforess' dll that have the original RevDCM, CAR, and several other features merged in for his and Jooyo's modmods to function.

EDIT: As for stability, it had never crashed for me so far. I went up to Renaissance age so far in my games.

Thanks for explaining this for others. Above describes exactly what I'm going to do.


@Everyone

What do you think about the changes and new additions in v2.8beta? Is there anything that you don't like? Something that could be improved? Something that I've missed (regarding Transhuman era potential)?

 

[os79]

@Everyone

What do you think about the changes and new additions in v2.8beta? Is there anything that you don't like? Something that could be improved? Something that I've missed (regarding Transhuman era potential)?

Definitely better in AI playability. My scores are constantly changing places in the scoreboard. I need to play into modern and beyond before saying anything about the techs and their stuff.

 

[zappara]

Definitely better in AI playability. My scores are constantly changing places in the scoreboard. I need to play into modern and beyond before saying anything about the techs and their stuff.

Well, you could always see the civilopedia.

 

[Lamb Chop]

I think it has become a bloodbath it is/was supposed to be. I think you might have problems with church activity groups regarding exposing young and impressionable minds to violence.

I mean American AI declaring war on Persia to get it's Oil and razing several cities is so unrealistic and over the top

I am loving the AI zap, not a single hitch yet, I have noticed something else though, playing on a random map there are some critical resources seriously lacking. such as Stone and Salt. I am through conquering large landmasses and fighting off AI but haven't even seen a single stone so far. did you play with map scripts or am I just being unlucky?

I presume latter since no one else is complaining

 

[darkyxinhow]

@Lamb Chop
I'm gonna download the 2.8 now, but I've seem some similar situations in 2.7x, particularly in the Perfect World mapscript. Some strategic resources have far too random appeareances: I've already stumbled across cities with two or three sources of salt and stone and MAPS with two or three (standard and large sizes) =p I've even seen a standard map with only three sources of copper (and one of them was in a small island while another one was in the new world). And it seems to be a problem only with the "older" resources: stone, marble, obsidian, salt, and less frequently copper, iron and even sulphur. Wine and dye also seem to be too rare (I know dye should really be rare, but I swear I've already seen large maps with only two or three city-radius-close sources and no other sources at all).

 

[Sarkyn]

Just to clarify... I installed it to <bts folder>/Mods/Rise of Mankind 2.8/

And when I loaded the game, the interface was missing.

Do I need to install it to /Rise of Mankind/?

Which means I can't have this beta installed at the same time as 2.71 ?

 

[Supercheese]

What do you think about the changes and new additions in v2.8beta? Is there anything that you don't like? Something that could be improved? Something that I've missed...?

Well, you've done well adding new constructsounds so far, but there are a few things that still seem a tad off:

First of all, Jail-old1.wav is still present in Assets/Sounds/Buildings. As I mentioned in my thread, you should probably delete it, as it is just taking up space. (Not a huge issue, but still).

Also, I believe there's been a bit of a mix-up -- the "SportsArena" sound is currently applied to "ye olde sword-fighting Arena", but it was intended for the National Sports League... hearing a crowd chanting "Defense! Defense!" for ancient gladiators is a bit odd... I apologize for my rather ambiguous filename -- it really should have been NationalSportsLeague.wav, rather than SportsArena.wav.

Second, there are several changes I had suggested, but still haven't been implemented. I realize you might not agree with me on the entirety of my proposed sound changes (and I should have used more underscores in the sound define tags!) but here are a few suggestions I think we can all agree on:

Spoiler :

Bomb shelter still has no constructsound, I think the Bunker sound works well
Anti-Missile batteries still have no constructsound, again, Bunker sounds pretty good here (don't tell anyone, but the "Bunker" sound is actually a "Missile Silo" sound from SimCity 3000!)
I really think that Irrigation Canals should have the Aqueduct sound, rather than the Granary sound
Pharmacy should have Doctors_Office sound, rather than Hospital sound (the Hospital beeps seem out of place...)
Suggest Mech Assembly Plant should have Nanofactory sound, rather than the Factory sound (Factory is overused...)
Cereal Mills Factory should have Food Processing Plant sound rather than Factory sound
Standard Ethanol Distillery should have Oil_Refinery sound rather than Factory
Creative Constructions Office should have Skyscraper sound, rather than Factory
Aluminum Co R&D could have Laboratory sound, rather than Factory (Yeah, Factory is definitely overused!)
Coal Plant & Japanese Shale Plant still have no constructsound, suggest using the PLANTCOAL sound (from vanilla Civ4... I am unsure why they don't already use this sound)
Oil Plant still has no construct sound, I suggest Oil_Refinery
Supermarket should have the Supermarket sound, rather than the Mall sound (although the American Mall should have the Mall sound, obviously)
Shopping District should have Mall sound rather than Grocer sound
The Aztec Sacrificial Altar really should have Sacrificial_Altar sound, rather than the Courthouse sound...
Globe Theater has no constructsound, suggest Theatre sound
National Park still has no constructsound (the Park sound was intended for it...)
Oxford University has no constructsound, suggest University sound
Mt. Rushmore currently has no constructsound, suggest Park sound
Supercollider should have Accelerator sound, rather than the Observatory sound
Treasury should have the Bank constructsound, rather than the Marketplace sound
World News Network should have Press_Agency sound, rather than University sound
Advanced Quality Control still has no constructsound. I'm not sure what fits best (as I'm not sure what an "Advanced Quality Control" would sound like...) maybe Info_Net, Computer_Network, or even Nanofactory.

Finally, it doesn't look like you've included any of the new religious building sounds. Is there a reason for this, or maybe you just haven't gotten around to it yet?

 

[Bezhukov]

I mean American AI declaring war on Persia to get it's Oil and razing several cities is so unrealistic and over the top

Yep, in this world it pretty much it is. Not sure which one you're living in. Sure we could have managed that at any time in the last fifty years if that was in our nature. Blurring such distinctions doesn't have the happiest history.



As for the mod, I think the slower growth rate, while a good idea, makes whipping even stupider. Pls consider removing pop-rushing from the mod altogether, as given the higher yields of improved RoM tiles, and the new slower growth rate,it's seldom the optimal play anyway. As a champ poprusher in BtS, I think I can speak with some authority there.

Another huge human advantage over the AI is the silly yield on Trade Caravans. 150 hammers for 420 gold (Snail) in 2k BC completely warps the game. Compare to Wealth, for instance, and this was on a city under two moves away.

Perhaps also consider giving benefit to the destination city as well as the originator, to make spamming at least help the AI too.

Game was unstableish at first, but has settled in nicely. Currently running away with Immortal game (thanks to Caravans), will next give Deity a go. Non-Slavery AI seems somewhat less stupid. Still not getting it's tiles worked in a timely manner.

 

[aender]

Just to clarify... I installed it to <bts folder>/Mods/Rise of Mankind 2.8/

And when I loaded the game, the interface was missing.

Do I need to install it to /Rise of Mankind/?

Which means I can't have this beta installed at the same time as 2.71 ?

yes and no.........you need to change the name of rom2.71 to whatever then install 2,8 then whichever version you play needs to be named rom at the time you play it

 

[JosEPh_II]

That crash was not BTS!. ntdll.dll is your OS kernel Check your system health, chkdsk your HDD's, test your memory and your OS installation stability. May be caused by drivers also.

Thanks!

Didn't know that. My OS is Win Pro 64bit. I have 8GB of DDR21066 ram. 500GB Western Digital HD. This is a new Computer I built in March.

JosEPh

 

[Lamb Chop]

Thanks!

Didn't know that. My OS is Win Pro 64bit. I have 8GB of DDR21066 ram. 500GB Western Digital HD. This is a new Computer I built in March.

JosEPh

In that case I can almost guarantee you it is your memory voltages.
Voltage stated on the modules is fine if you are using only 1 chnl as in 2 modules but you almost always have to feed it a bit more if you using all 4 chnls like you are.

Don't worry they are resiliant won't burn out easy but you may wanna add a cooler modulefor your DDR slots from OCZ or Kingston, it makes a ton of difference on stability

 

[szemek77]

I'm leaning to opinion that trade caravans should be completely removed from the game. It gives the player enormous advantage since AI don't know how to use this unit. I have never seen a single trade caravan of AI inside my borders! Or maybe they are invisible

I think that the basic behavior of AI concerning the expansion style created in BTS never considered such a unit. Although I understand Zappara's idea of bringing caravan unit back to life, it seems that it spoiled the balance of the game. It is obvious that AI has not been tought how to use this excellent expansion-rush unit properly, and it is obviously that this situation will not change.

Presence of caravan (although there is a limited number of TC which could be active at one moment) makes this game shockingly simple. You don't need to worry about your money anymore. Economy was the factor which restricted your expansion. Now, with little help of these camels it is not anymore. So, my basic strategy goes like this: creating my capital, then one-two more cities, whipping as many warriors (or spearmen) as possible, grabbing land and huts (sometimes I receive more warriors from that), creating an army of 10+ warriors and capturing my closest (and even not so close) neigbours capitals one by one, and NOT to raze them. In normal circumstances I would not be able keep cities which are so far away from my motherland. With the caravans - I can, which is good, because capital cities are obviously located in best spots (many resources) and it will be a real waste to raze them. After a while (of course I need to leave at least one - the more friendly, the better - AI civ nearby to have a destination for my caravan spam) my empire contains 4-5 "civilization centers", which are growing toward each other, filling the space with numbers of cities. In that manner, my empire is usually 4-5 times bigger than any other which gives me of course high production (for example - I'm able to build couple of wonders simultanously), high science rate, more great people and so on. Around X-XIII century - no contest! Even if I have only one defending unit in every city, my military ratio so strong, that no one dares to touch me. I don't need to waste time, money (upkeep!) and my hammers to build numerous military units. My effort concentrates on economy, wonders and science.

So, for these reasons I recommend to remove that unit from the game. Anyway I'm not going to use this unit anymore, since it spoils all the fun.

You can also consider (Bezhukov mentioned it) to change the rules. For example:

1. Instead of money, the caravan could provide one extra trade route for the city it came from (similar as it was in CIV2). It needs to be determined if that effect should be permanent (in that case I suggest one city can produce 1 trade caravan per game) or temporary (i.e. 30, 40, 50 turns)
2. Bezhukovs idea - split the money. If we get 210 gold (marathon), maybe 130 should go to sender, and 80 to receiver?
3. Diminish the money - 50 not 210 - just an idea.... and limit the number of caravans to 3 to be active at the same moment.

Anyway - I'm waiting anxiously for 2.8 final release. I really hope that AI will do better. Removal of caravan and changes to this cursed slavery civic should help a lot in this problem.

Best regards and special thanks to Zappara

 

[dexter_inside]

I'm leaning to opinion that trade caravans should be completely removed from the game. It gives the player enormous advantage since AI don't know how to use this unit. I have never seen a single trade caravan of AI inside my borders! Or maybe they are invisible

I completely agree, I never use caravans because feels like cheating.
Remove them altogether, or at least the 2nd option from Bezukov with the money splitting

 

[Carwyn]

@szemek77

For some reason my experience with Trade Caravans and the AI is not the same as everyone elses. I often see just normal TC's wandering around the map built by AI. Not sure what the difference is. I don't normally like to waste the hammers to build them unless I am in dire straits though. Also I play with Tech trading OFF, so they have to research their own, maybe that's it?

 

[Afforess]

@szemek77

For some reason my experience with Trade Caravans and the AI is not the same as everyone elses. I often see just normal TC's wandering around the map built by AI. Not sure what the difference is. I don't normally like to waste the hammers to build them unless I am in dire straits though. Also I play with Tech trading OFF, so they have to research their own, maybe that's it?

I was wondering if I was the only one. I even have screenshots of AI trade caravans, if you want them. I've seen the AI use trade caravans.

 

[cheesemijit]

Same, they have sent one to me a few times, so a money bonus on my end would be cool.

could it depend on gamespeed?

 

[Bezhukov]

I saw my first AI TC's in my current game. Toku built two. I'm looking forward to the end game stats to see if I hit 1,000. I've run 90% science (with a deficit as high as 300 gpt) from 2000BC to 500AD, where I currently am, by cashing in a TC every two or three turns. This is Snail Immortal. I was able to settle (I'm a builder, not a fighter) about three times the territory of the next largest AI by doing this.

Some of it depends how many hammers you have to throw around, but if you have the resources to run Caste/Slavery (still optimal, even after the changes) hammers are pretty plentiful.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I too see AI TCs. Actually quite a few.

In fact I've often wondered why I couldn't capture one for it's Gold! (hint: could be a neat little feature since barbs can kill your TCs)

One thing I did notice about TCs in this version. The 1st TC I sent out gave me 1700 gold (woohoo!). The next 2 (to different AI and farther away) only netted me 120 and 175 gold.

But with it getting harder each version to keep the gold flowing I am using TCs more than I did in earlier versions of RoM.