Warfare Expanded (for MOAR) 7.3

[Wolfdog]

Mine is working perfactly.. only the horse man and knight still appears in the atomic area

Checked my mod and MOAR and neither make changes the obsolete tech for the knight or horseman. In my game I am playing I am up to the Modern era and neither are available to build so sorry man not sure whats going on there.

Congratulations to the developers, it worked here, but it did not work with Brazil All Uniques. Anyway, congratulations to you all.

Can you provide more details I did a quick checked the Brazilian UU's and they seemed OK? Which one or is it all UU's that you are having problems with?

 

[Kevin Rennyer]

Checked my mod and MOAR and neither make changes the obsolete tech for the knight or horseman. In my game I am playing I am up to the Modern era and neither are available to build so sorry man not sure whats going on there.


Can you provide more details I did a quick checked the Brazilian UU's and they seemed OK? Which one or is it all UU's that you are having problems with?

The game usually starts with Brazil All Units, but with the same standard Civilization units.
I do not know how to post logs or relational reports accurately. Excuse me!

 

[Wolfdog]

The game usually starts with Brazil All Units, but with the same standard Civilization units.
I do not know how to post logs or relational reports accurately. Excuse me!

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. Are you talking about the cultural art style perhaps?

 

[Kevin Rennyer]

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. Are you talking about the cultural art style perhaps?

Sorry! I'm Brazilian, I was using the Brasil All Units mod along with his mod. Then the mod Warfare Expanded (for MOAR) 6.0 did not work and the Brasil All Units mod worked correctly. I was saying that I can not post bug reports with more technical information. However when I disabled the mod of Brazil all the units worked perfectly. Just this, but you're welcome, I'm having a lot of fun.

 

[dunkleosteus]

Why use "WWI"? I don't really like references to real-world events like that.

 

[Magic90]

So I finished a game after removing the other conflicting mods, and it worked fine. So I guess that was the problem, on my end.

The Russian naval units and the new Stealth Fighter model look great! I’ve been having a lot of fun with the marine units especially, though one thing that did bug me was that they don’t start with the amphibious promotion. As of now they only start seeing “marine-like” benefits after they reach a promotion, which can be a little difficult at first since they are a tad weaker than other units in their respective eras, unfortunately. Can this be fixed easily?

On another note, shouldn’t the mid-level marines use allied weaponry like Thompsons (like in Civ 5) or at least rifles instead of the German Stg44s? The Germans didn’t have as great a marine force so much as the US Marines, Royal Marines, or the Japanese. Sorry to be nitpickey, just trying to offer feedback. Keep up the good work!

 

[Wolfdog]

Sorry! I'm Brazilian, I was using the Brasil All Units mod along with his mod. Then the mod Warfare Expanded (for MOAR) 6.0 did not work and the Brasil All Units mod worked correctly. I was saying that I can not post bug reports with more technical information. However when I disabled the mod of Brazil all the units worked perfectly. Just this, but you're welcome, I'm having a lot of fun.

Looks like they are not compatible. Sorry.

Why use "WWI"? I don't really like references to real-world events like that.

OK what would you call them then?

So I finished a game after removing the other conflicting mods, and it worked fine. So I guess that was the problem, on my end.

The Russian naval units and the new Stealth Fighter model look great! I’ve been having a lot of fun with the marine units especially, though one thing that did bug me was that they don’t start with the amphibious promotion. As of now they only start seeing “marine-like” benefits after they reach a promotion, which can be a little difficult at first since they are a tad weaker than other units in their respective eras, unfortunately. Can this be fixed easily?

On another note, shouldn’t the mid-level marines use allied weaponry like Thompsons (like in Civ 5) or at least rifles instead of the German Stg44s? The Germans didn’t have as great a marine force so much as the US Marines, Royal Marines, or the Japanese. Sorry to be nitpickey, just trying to offer feedback. Keep up the good work!

The Marines get the amphibious ability as part of there class. All Marines get 'AMPHIBIOUS_BONUS_IGNORE_RIVERS','AMPHIBIOUS_BONUS_IGNORE_SHORES'), 'REDCOAT_DISEMBARK');
Are you suffering penalties for amphibious attacks?

When I get some time I will replace the Marine weapon with a Tompson. It takes a long time to make a model and get them into the game so sometimes I just use whats available or I will never get any thing done.

 

[Magic90]

Haha I understand, no worries...

I’m seeing a penalty where I have a modern marine in the sea poised to attack a city. When I highlight the city to preview the attack, it gives me a “-10 Amphibious Attack Penalty”, and the Combat strength bumps down accordingly.

 

[Wolfdog]

Haha I understand, no worries...

I’m seeing a penalty where I have a modern marine in the sea poised to attack a city. When I highlight the city to preview the attack, it gives me a “-10 Amphibious Attack Penalty”, and the Combat strength bumps down accordingly.

OK thanks I will do some tests tonight.

 

[Wolfdog]

OK so this is what I have found. Amphibious promotion dose not seem to work at all. I gave an Infantry unit the Amphibious promotion and I was still getting the same -10 attack penalty. I also found this thread where some other people have reported the same thing so it may be a bug in the base game but I have not tested that theory yet.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see any combat strength modifiers associated with the Amphibious promotion that would counteract the penalty. (Like you see with Siege & Ranged class promotions). The ignore coast and river tile modifiers that are there I would think only applies to the movement cost part of the promotion. (Like the Commando promotion for cliffs.)

 

[dunkleosteus]

Looks like they are not compatible. Sorry.

OK what would you call them then?

The Marines get the amphibious ability as part of there class. All Marines get 'AMPHIBIOUS_BONUS_IGNORE_RIVERS','AMPHIBIOUS_BONUS_IGNORE_SHORES'), 'REDCOAT_DISEMBARK');
Are you suffering penalties for amphibious attacks?

When I get some time I will replace the Marine weapon with a Tompson. It takes a long time to make a model and get them into the game so sometimes I just use whats available or I will never get any thing done.

Well since you asked, I might as well. The WWI ground attack you have seems to be a bomber(?) rather than a dedicated attack plane. I've read that the Germans were using dedicated attack planes in WWI and both their J and CL class planes were Sesquiplanes (a bi-plane where the surface area of the lower wings is half that of the upper wings) allowing for more maneuverability and precision. For the bomber, I might differentiate the bombers from our modern WWI era and WWII era as "Bomber" and "Heavy Bomber" with the lighter biplanes in WWI and the heavier, multi-prop bombers like the Lancaster in WWII.

 

[Wolfdog]

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see any combat strength modifiers associated with the Amphibious promotion that would counteract the penalty. (Like you see with Siege & Ranged class promotions). The ignore coast and river tile modifiers that are there I would think only applies to the movement cost part of the promotion. (Like the Commando promotion for cliffs.)

That is a good point, I see what mean, if you look at the code and all it says is ignore coasts and rivers. So you would be forgiven for thinking that would negate the attack as well as the movement penalty because it should treat it as a normal tile. But that does not seem to be the case. And to quote the description in the doco for the Amphibious promotion "A unit with this promotion does not suffer penalties to Movement or Combat Strength when attacking from the water or over a River.".

If you look at the Redcoat disembark bonus in the code and it is exactly the same as the Amphibious bonus. And to quote the Redcoats ability according to the description in the doco "No cost to disembark" is all it says.

I think that this is an oversight from Firaxis that they have forgotten to put in the +10 combat strength to negate the penalty.

Well since you asked, I might as well. The WWI ground attack you have seems to be a bomber(?) rather than a dedicated attack plane. I've read that the Germans were using dedicated attack planes in WWI and both their J and CL class planes were Sesquiplanes (a bi-plane where the surface area of the lower wings is half that of the upper wings) allowing for more maneuverability and precision. For the bomber, I might differentiate the bombers from our modern WWI era and WWII era as "Bomber" and "Heavy Bomber" with the lighter biplanes in WWI and the heavier, multi-prop bombers like the Lancaster in WWII.

I do like your suggestion for the bombers but I am not so sure about Sesquiplanes as that is more a plane design rather than a type which is why I moved away from calling the WW1 fighter a Biplane. I could change their names to early ground attack/fighter/bomber that may be a bit more fitting. I don't know.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Wolfdog, it's an amazing job that you've done here.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

I think that this is an oversight from Firaxis that they have forgotten to put in the +10 combat strength to negate the penalty.

I agree, unless they've hidden the modifier somewhere deep in the dll , as there's nothing listed in the UnitPromotions.xml. It wouldn't be too difficult to add it in though. Maybe it'll be fixed with R&F. Amphibious, however, must not have been that popular of a promotion since it seems strange that so few people have even noticed they weren't getting the + combat modifier.

 

[Wolfdog]

I agree, unless they've hidden the modifier somewhere deep in the dll , as there's nothing listed in the UnitPromotions.xml. It wouldn't be too difficult to add it in though. Maybe it'll be fixed with R&F. Amphibious, however, must not have been that popular of a promotion since it seems strange that so few people have even noticed they weren't getting the + combat modifier.

Tried to add it by giving +10 combat on coast tiles but it does not work. I guess we will have to wait for R&F to see if they fix it.

 

[Magic90]

Interesting I never even noticed that with the other units, oh well. Thanks for the effort and the update, let's hope R&F fixes it.

 

[Magic90]

Might be worth noting, I think the Modern Marine is a bit underpowered when compared to the Mechanized Infantry. The industrial and atomic era marines are in an appropriate range where they're about 3 points weaker than the melee units, but then comes the Modern Marine and we see a 10 CS point difference.

Industrial Era: Naval Infantry- 61 vs. Rifleman- 64
Modern Era: Marine- 67 vs. Infantry- 70
Atomic/Information: Modern Marine 75 vs. Mechanized Infantry- 85

Is this intentional so that you can put a later game Marine unit, or am I missing something? Not a big deal, I just changed the value to 82 in my game.

 

[Wolfdog]

Might be worth noting, I think the Modern Marine is a bit underpowered when compared to the Mechanized Infantry. The industrial and atomic era marines are in an appropriate range where they're about 3 points weaker than the melee units, but then comes the Modern Marine and we see a 10 CS point difference.

Industrial Era: Naval Infantry- 61 vs. Rifleman- 64
Modern Era: Marine- 67 vs. Infantry- 70
Atomic/Information: Modern Marine 75 vs. Mechanized Infantry- 85

Is this intentional so that you can put a later game Marine unit, or am I missing something? Not a big deal, I just changed the value to 82 in my game.

Because it is available in the Atomic era I based it on the Motorised Infantry unit. But I prob should bump it up as there is no Marine for the Information era. I also need to address the lack of amphibious attack with some other bonus.

 

[Magic90]

Quick question, concerning marine units. Since they require the harbor to build (which I think is cool), do they still gain their experience bonuses from the encampment districts or from the harbors now? I haven't checked myself as I usually just build both districts just to be safe lol