-
We are currently performing site maintenance, parts of civfanatics are currently offline, but will come back online in the coming days. For more updates please see here.
Warhammer unit request: Chaos Dwarfs & Hobgoblins
- Thread starter Yoda Power
- Start date
Drift
It's a boy!
I might try just a little narrower beard, but other than that, I can't think of anything. I still think I'd like it better with a tome instead of an axe, but as it's a chaos dwarf thing, I'll keep my mouth shut. 
Smoking mirror
Ships Captain
aaglo said:
Don't want him comming down your chimney on the 24th....
Looks great by the way!
embryodead
Caliph
Oh my G. You really did awesome job. I downloaded the Chaos Dwarf Hero and indeed, it's walk animation is first class, unbelievable you did that in C++... i mean Pov-Ray 
Would it be possible for you to export some of the props (like helmets, beard etc.) as separate 3d objects in some common format (OBJ / 3DS / DXF), so I could use them in a leaderhead? Alternatively, could you do a leaderhead
I have no choice but to include Chaos Dwarfs in 2.03 (guess it will become 2.1 with all those changes). I still think it can be released in December, seems I'm the only component that's slowing things down Oh, and honestly I haven't been playing World of Warcraft yet... I got my copy I haven't really started, planned today but well, it's too late.
Would it be possible for you to export some of the props (like helmets, beard etc.) as separate 3d objects in some common format (OBJ / 3DS / DXF), so I could use them in a leaderhead? Alternatively, could you do a leaderhead
I have no choice but to include Chaos Dwarfs in 2.03 (guess it will become 2.1 with all those changes). I still think it can be released in December, seems I'm the only component that's slowing things down
Oh, and honestly I haven't been playing World of Warcraft yet... I got my copy I haven't really started, planned today but well, it's too late.
aaglo
Furioso!
I'm glad you like them
I don't know if I can export those helmets/beards/things in those formats. I could go and have a look if I can find some converters from the net (I believe there are some). I've read, that it's easier to export files from pov-ray than it is to import files to pov-ray. Well, we shall see
Oh, I have no idea how to make leaderheads
[EDIT]
Ok, I took a look, and there are no utilities to transform pov-files into 3d-files - sorry. Here's what pov-ray help file says:
For POV-Ray 3.1 and newer: There is unfortunately not much you can do. There is no real versatile program yet, that can read (and convert) POV-Ray 3.1 scripts (except for POV-Ray itself. Your best shots would be: POV2RIB (http://www9.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~cnvogelg/pov2rib/index.html) if you want to convert to the RIB format. If you know how to program C++, you can get the ParPov C++ library from the same URL. It is a class-library for reading POV 3.1 scripts and converting them to C++ objects (it also has been used for POV2RIB).
3DWin from Thomas Baier (see the URL above) converts from the POB format to a lot of other formats. POB is a special binary POV-Ray format devised by Thomas and is written by a custom-compile version of POV-Ray 3.0 (get the POB-SDK at the same URL): This POV-Ray version reads POV-scripts and outputs POB files, which can then be converted by 3DWin. The drawback: Although all objects, textures etc. of the scene are in the POB file, they are not all recognized by 3DWin. Only triangles and meshes of triangles are recognized. Everything else in the scene is lost....
The help-file says also this (this is the reason why pov-ray files cannot be converted to 'common' 3d-files):
"Why are there so many converters from other 3D file formats to POV, but practically no converters from POV to other formats?"
It's a mistake to think that a POV-Ray file is just the same kind of data file as in most other renderers.
The file format of most renderers is just a data file containing numerical values (vertex coordinates, triangle indices, textures, uv-coordinates, NURBS data...) describing the scene. They usually are very little more than just numerical data containers.
However, POV-Ray files are much more than just data files. POV-Ray files are actually source code of the POV-Ray scripting language. The POV-Ray scripting language is by many means a full programming language (it's Turing-strong). It contains many features typical to programming languages and non-typical to data files (such as variables, loops, mathematical functions, macros, etc). It has many features to describe things in a much more abstract way than just plain numbers.
This is why converting a POV-file to a data file readable by other renderers is so difficult. The converter program would actually have to "execute", that is, interpret the scripting language (in the exact same way as a BASIC or Perl source code is interpreted). Making a scripting language interpreter is a much more laborious job than just converting numerical data from one format to another.
There's also another problem: POV-Ray describes most of its objects as mathematical entities while most of other renderers just handle triangles (or NURBS or similar easily tesselable primitives). A converter would have to make some tesselation in order to convert most POV-Ray primitives to other formats. This can be a quite laborious job for a converter to make (it would have to practically implement an almost fully-qualified POV-Ray renderer).
This is why making a full-featured converter from any POV-file to any other format is an almost impossible task.
I don't know if I can export those helmets/beards/things in those formats. I could go and have a look if I can find some converters from the net (I believe there are some). I've read, that it's easier to export files from pov-ray than it is to import files to pov-ray. Well, we shall see
Oh, I have no idea how to make leaderheads
[EDIT]
Ok, I took a look, and there are no utilities to transform pov-files into 3d-files - sorry. Here's what pov-ray help file says:
For POV-Ray 3.1 and newer: There is unfortunately not much you can do. There is no real versatile program yet, that can read (and convert) POV-Ray 3.1 scripts (except for POV-Ray itself
. Your best shots would be: POV2RIB (http://www9.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~cnvogelg/pov2rib/index.html) if you want to convert to the RIB format. If you know how to program C++, you can get the ParPov C++ library from the same URL. It is a class-library for reading POV 3.1 scripts and converting them to C++ objects (it also has been used for POV2RIB). 3DWin from Thomas Baier (see the URL above) converts from the POB format to a lot of other formats. POB is a special binary POV-Ray format devised by Thomas and is written by a custom-compile version of POV-Ray 3.0 (get the POB-SDK at the same URL): This POV-Ray version reads POV-scripts and outputs POB files, which can then be converted by 3DWin. The drawback: Although all objects, textures etc. of the scene are in the POB file, they are not all recognized by 3DWin. Only triangles and meshes of triangles are recognized. Everything else in the scene is lost....
The help-file says also this (this is the reason why pov-ray files cannot be converted to 'common' 3d-files):
"Why are there so many converters from other 3D file formats to POV, but practically no converters from POV to other formats?"
It's a mistake to think that a POV-Ray file is just the same kind of data file as in most other renderers.
The file format of most renderers is just a data file containing numerical values (vertex coordinates, triangle indices, textures, uv-coordinates, NURBS data...) describing the scene. They usually are very little more than just numerical data containers.
However, POV-Ray files are much more than just data files. POV-Ray files are actually source code of the POV-Ray scripting language. The POV-Ray scripting language is by many means a full programming language (it's Turing-strong). It contains many features typical to programming languages and non-typical to data files (such as variables, loops, mathematical functions, macros, etc). It has many features to describe things in a much more abstract way than just plain numbers.
This is why converting a POV-file to a data file readable by other renderers is so difficult. The converter program would actually have to "execute", that is, interpret the scripting language (in the exact same way as a BASIC or Perl source code is interpreted). Making a scripting language interpreter is a much more laborious job than just converting numerical data from one format to another.
There's also another problem: POV-Ray describes most of its objects as mathematical entities while most of other renderers just handle triangles (or NURBS or similar easily tesselable primitives). A converter would have to make some tesselation in order to convert most POV-Ray primitives to other formats. This can be a quite laborious job for a converter to make (it would have to practically implement an almost fully-qualified POV-Ray renderer).
This is why making a full-featured converter from any POV-file to any other format is an almost impossible task.
Mistfit
Deity
sounds perfectly logical to me 
embryodead
Caliph
ok ok I got the message 
aaglo
Furioso!
I mean I would really like to help with the leaderhead, but I can't. sorry
Maybe you could ask kinboat ...
Maybe you could ask kinboat ...
aaglo
Furioso!
Hmmm... I just realized, that the dwarfs (and neither the chaos dwarfs) do not have any 'basic' bombarding units - meaning stone and bolt throwers. Maybe I could do some generally dwarvish rock lobber and bolt thrower (or a Goblin Hewer 
), which could be used by both factions...
), which could be used by both factions...
Drift
It's a boy!
After the rock lobber, what kind of infantry is still on the list? Chaos Dwarf with a blunderbuss(?) is probably required, but are there any other variations of these guys as infantry? How about a melee bull centaur with chaos dwarf's upper body? Should be really cool.
As far as I've seen, the only infantry Chaos dwarves are hand-weapon & shield carrying soldiers, two-handed axemen, and the blunderbuss dudes - all of which are heavily armored. The lower-level soldiers all seem to be filled by the greenskin slaves of the Chaos Dwarves, and there are already a good number of goblin and orc units to draw from there. No hobgoblins, though.
aaglo
Furioso!
Yep, most low-end (?) units are those goblin/hobgoblin slaves. And wolf riders.
What is there at the high end for Chaos Dwarfs? Certainly the bull centaur should go there as a knight unit. Then there is also the great taurus (a flying unit) and blunderbuss (superb defender?).
I think that the bull centaur would be a great unit (and very much appreciated), and I would do it, if I had the confidence - well, it really doesn't hurt to atleast try
And what about those already done?
- whirlwind war machine? What the heck should that be? A cavalry unit? A bombarding unit? A fast defending unit?
- earthshaker seems to be a high-end bombard
- lava elemental? a foot unit available at the-tech-that-allows-the-earth-elemental-tower-wonder (see how good my memory is )
- hero is an infantry (or a troll/dragonslayer-level unit?) and king
- sorcerer is a sorcerer (duh)
- the upcoming chaos-dwarf warrior by kinboat could be infantry-level unit
What is there at the high end for Chaos Dwarfs? Certainly the bull centaur should go there as a knight unit. Then there is also the great taurus (a flying unit) and blunderbuss (superb defender?).
I think that the bull centaur would be a great unit (and very much appreciated), and I would do it, if I had the confidence
- well, it really doesn't hurt to atleast try And what about those already done?
- whirlwind war machine? What the heck should that be? A cavalry unit? A bombarding unit? A fast defending unit?
- earthshaker seems to be a high-end bombard
- lava elemental? a foot unit available at the-tech-that-allows-the-earth-elemental-tower-wonder (see how good my memory is
)- hero is an infantry (or a troll/dragonslayer-level unit?) and king
- sorcerer is a sorcerer (duh)
- the upcoming chaos-dwarf warrior by kinboat could be infantry-level unit
Drift
It's a boy!
As for the bull centaur, go for it!
If it turns out ok, you can raise the bar and do the Great Taurus next.
If it turns out ok, you can raise the bar and do the Great Taurus next.
aaglo said:Hmmm... I just realized, that the dwarfs (and neither the chaos dwarfs) do not have any 'basic' bombarding units - meaning stone and bolt throwers. Maybe I could do some generally dwarvish rock lobber and bolt thrower (or a Goblin Hewer
They have access to Hobgoblin bolt throwers. I don't think there's a standard single-action bolt thrower unit been made, so if you made one of them (With or without operators, I don't know the requirements) that'd be pretty neat. Plus it'd make a change from having the catapult -> fire catapult -> trebuchet route (Before all the cool Imperial age stuff) for most civs that is getting a bit old.
Lusikka755
Tired
aaglo said:Hmmm... I just realized, that the dwarfs (and neither the chaos dwarfs) do not have any 'basic' bombarding units - meaning stone and bolt throwers. Maybe I could do some generally dwarvish rock lobber and bolt thrower (or a Goblin Hewer
Here are some ideas for ya:
1 , 2 , 3
EDIT: or one of these
(exept the gyrocopter of course)
aaglo
Furioso!
I think I won't do the flame cannon - there are already the dwarven cannon and organ cannon from the (apparently) same era
But the bolt thrower is a must. But should I do two a bit different bolt throwers - with the only change being the crew (bolt thrower for both dwarfs and chaos dwarfs)? Or could one model handle both factions?
And same question goes to the possible rock thrower.
And one final question for now:
- why there are no chaos dwarfs in the official warhammer FB? what has happened to them? Yes, there is that one chaos dwarf rule-pdf in the games workshop website, but that's all. And I can't even find them in the local Games Workshop -store. So, where are they?
But the bolt thrower is a must. But should I do two a bit different bolt throwers - with the only change being the crew (bolt thrower for both dwarfs and chaos dwarfs)? Or could one model handle both factions?
And same question goes to the possible rock thrower.
And one final question for now:
- why there are no chaos dwarfs in the official warhammer FB? what has happened to them? Yes, there is that one chaos dwarf rule-pdf in the games workshop website, but that's all. And I can't even find them in the local Games Workshop -store. So, where are they?
As I understand it, the Chaos Dwarves were once a full army in Warhammer, and had since been removed. However, I have read that their new army book is being worked on, and that they will be returning to Warhammer, presumably after the Ogre Kingdoms army is released.
Regarding what to use the Whirlwind for, in my game I've set it up as an attack specialist unit of sorts. It has a high attack (10, I think), but a very poor defense (3), making it effective as long as it is protected. It works well to have a massed army, and have the Whirlwinds ready to stab/hack/mace-in-the-face the stronger defenders down, and then use the more regular troops to complete the assault.
As for the Lava Elemental, I'm wondering if there could be a Lava Vent's building created in cities to function like an airport for the Lava dudes. Maybe just allowing them to reposition like spells would work, though. I haven't incorporated them into my game yet.
Last thing, aaglo, did you see the Slayer Axe-Throwing machine at the bottom of the final page linked by Lusikka? Any chance you might be able to pull that one together??
Regarding what to use the Whirlwind for, in my game I've set it up as an attack specialist unit of sorts. It has a high attack (10, I think), but a very poor defense (3), making it effective as long as it is protected. It works well to have a massed army, and have the Whirlwinds ready to stab/hack/mace-in-the-face the stronger defenders down, and then use the more regular troops to complete the assault.
As for the Lava Elemental, I'm wondering if there could be a Lava Vent's building created in cities to function like an airport for the Lava dudes. Maybe just allowing them to reposition like spells would work, though. I haven't incorporated them into my game yet.
Last thing, aaglo, did you see the Slayer Axe-Throwing machine at the bottom of the final page linked by Lusikka? Any chance you might be able to pull that one together??
embryodead
Caliph
@aaglo
New edition of WFB came out and they did not release all old factions immediately. I'm not sure if they want to drop Chaos Dwarfs, though it may not neccessary be the case since they add new edition factions on the fly (I think new Bretonnia was released couple of months ago?).
I think the most important units missing are Blunderbuss and Bull Centaur. Also something to put in the 1st era (probably Kinboat's dwarf) since atm (I added the civ already) 1st era is basically all-greenskins.
New edition of WFB came out and they did not release all old factions immediately. I'm not sure if they want to drop Chaos Dwarfs, though it may not neccessary be the case since they add new edition factions on the fly (I think new Bretonnia was released couple of months ago?).
I think the most important units missing are Blunderbuss and Bull Centaur. Also something to put in the 1st era (probably Kinboat's dwarf) since atm (I added the civ already) 1st era is basically all-greenskins.
Similar threads
- Sticky
