What are your thoughts on BitCoin?

[yung.carl.jung]

I am not sure I really "get" bitcoin, but I really do not get these stablecoins. You cannot use them to buy drugs, and you cannot use them for speculation, and you have to trust a single organisation. What good are they?
Also:

Coinbase is not on this list. It could be that they are holding it for others, but that is also something that I do not understand.

Coin Base is essentially a Cryptocurrency stock exchange. They do hold large amounts of BitCoin themselves, but as you correctly state they are mostly holding them for their users.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Real digital currency is now a thing: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/economic-business-news.665970/page-11#post-16068016

 

[Moriarte]

Real digital currency is now a thing: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/economic-business-news.665970/page-11#post-16068016

Author forgets that Venezuela was first with Petro. The fact that PRC have a digital currency in the making for 7 years is interesting. Their digital currency will become an extension to existing monetary infrastructure. Immediate benefits - complete removal of paper money and counterfeit money, near-instant transactions without the need for third party settlement platform - will bring savings and efficiency. On top of that, a layer of digital lending, no doubt wallets tied through their latest smartphones to the central bank, etc.

Digital Yuan is merely striving to be a digital currency - a form of medium of exchange complementing the workings of the economy with full centralised control of issuance and monetary policy. Cryptocurrencies, such as btc and eth are more advanced instruments. Based on limited, deteriorating minting of value, they are designed to be a store of value with a positive side effect of being a digital currency. Designed to have a degree of protection against centralised manipulation, they are, essentially, built on a different foundation, different set of ideas.

Furthermore, the open source nature of modern crypto enables constant tweaking, experimentation, interchanging of ideas. The ecosystems of cryptos constantly collide, unite and part ways, enabling a rate of progress. Ethereum network gave birth to thousands of other cryptos, they operate “on Ethereum chain”. Smart contracts provide means to program digital tokens and “on-chain governance” is the operating mode, where you can vote with the code. It’s a more complex system and a more advanced toolbox.

Will the Chinese succeed? Without a shadow of a doubt. But they will still be learning from crypto and competing with it, also philosophically. It’s ironic that polemic between the East and the West continues in this space, where one side still offers a complete, unhinged freedom and innovation, while the other offers stability through complete control. Both have merit, probably.

Spoiler on-chain governance :

On-chain governance is a system for managing and implementing changes to cryptocurrency blockchains. In this type of governance, rules for instituting changes are encoded into the blockchain protocol. Developers propose changes through code updates and each node votes on whether to accept or reject the proposed change

.

 

[Samson]

The CCP could do a 51% attack on bitcoin tomorrow, but will not until their pretend cryptocurrency is established enough to take up the slack.

Chinese companies handled 78.89% of global bitcoin blockchain operations as of April 2020. For them not to be able to do a 51% hack they would have to be unable to persuade 63% of those bitcoin miners within China to join a pool. I would guess they would be able to persuade somewhere between 99% and 100% of the operations to agree.

 

[Birdjaguar]

If you can bypass the paywall, this link is to a whole WSJ/Barrons section on Bitcoin.

http://ereader.wsj.net/?editionStart=The+Wall+Street+Journal

 

[Kaitzilla]

Crypto is finally going down in price.

The odds of me getting a video card this year have reappeared.

 

[Samson]

Natwest (makor UK bank) are warning their customers about bitcoin scams, and amoung other thinngs they say if you do not control the wallet it is a scam. As I understand it that is a major way people use companies like coinbase. So it NatWest calling a $50 billion company a scam?

Spoiler The warning :

 

[Birdjaguar]

The Chinese are using bitcoin to move money out of China in amounts over the the $20,000 annual limit. The Government is not happy and is taking steps to end the practice or at least track it.

The third reason is unlikely to be mentioned in press communiqués, but remains a core priority for Beijing. Put simply, any avenues citizens might use to easily move money out of China will be under perpetual threat of closure. Capital outflows between 2014 and 2016 caused a drop in China’s foreign-exchange reserves by around $1 trillion, and Beijing has spent the years since narrowing any potential escape routes.

 

[innonimatu]

Taking this to its logical conclusion.

Italian artists are such amazing trolls of the idiocies in society and the art world in particular. The king has no sculpture!

 

[Birdjaguar]

I read today that you can now buy title to digital real estate. I look for the link.

 

[innonimatu]

I read today that you can now buy title to digital real estate. I look for the link.

I am only surprised at how long it took. Back at the turn of the century I was already saying that property would be extended into virtual worlds (this was before "second life"...), as capitalism had already gobbled and digested the entire world. The last big spurt of growth was the decade after the end of the cold war when all those resources and hundreds of millions of people were added to the system. Out of material resources to grow into, with a planet population finally stabilizing, "economic growth" can only continue into immaterial stuff.
The "intellectual property" grab is part of it, but that too is finite, even as companies have been figuring out how to license the same stuff over and over to people. Because finally the ability of consumers to consume - their time - is the limiting factor! My guess for the next 20 years - if this takes an evolutionary path - is a long sunset of deflation... Otherwise any big unforeseen accident of history and all the make-believe property vanishes overnight.
It's gotten to the point where I occasionally wish to witness what a massive Carrington event will do to this current civilization we have...

 

[Birdjaguar]

We might well see such a thing. A wake up call.

 

[amadeus]

Taking this to its logical conclusion.

Italian artists are such amazing trolls of the idiocies in society and the art world in particular. The king has no sculpture!

I kind of like it, as a concept.

If you go to a concert, what tangible item can you take home with you? There are sounds and memories, but those are intangible. If I say something is a work of art and you agree, isn't it?

 

[Ajidica]

Barely-related: We've had some talk at work about bitcoin and I've caught myself on several occasions nearly calling them buttcoins.
Never called them Dunning-Krugerrands though, which are an infinitely better name.
Unfortunately, my preferred name of RON PAUL FUN BUX is a bit dated these days.

 

[Birdjaguar]

This might be locked; https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/25/fashion/selling-virtual-real-estate.html?smid=url-share

The Curious World of NFT Real Estate and Design
People are selling and buying art, furniture and even houses and land that exist only virtually.

It’s not uncommon for people to buy vacation homes they may only visit a few times a year. What about a home you never visit? And that doesn’t actually exist?

The market for digital files sold as “nonfungible tokens,” or NFTs, has exploded this year, most notably when an artwork by Beeple sold for $69.3 million at an online auction held by Christie’s in March. But real estate, architecture and design are also booming in the virtual marketplace.

Hrish Lotlikar, co-founder and chief executive of SuperWorld, an augmented reality virtual world, said the company had sold “thousands of properties” already in 2021, with users spending, on average, around $2,000 on the virtual real estate platform.

SuperWorld is geographically mapped onto the real world, divided into 64 billion plots of equal size covering the surface of the earth. So a person could theoretically own virtual land encompassing the Eiffel Tower, the Colosseum in Rome or prime commercial property in Lower Manhattan. Or if you’re nostalgically inclined, an NFT of your childhood home.

Starting at $25.

“It’s definitely a land grab now,” Mr. Lotlikar said.

Dezeen, an architecture publication that has covered the world of virtual design sold as NFTs, said many of his readers have pushed back against the trend. “We get angry commentators saying: ‘Just stop, will you?’” Mr. Fairs said. “A lot of people think it’s nonsense.”

Indeed, isn’t the most essential function of a house to provide physical shelter? What can you do with a virtual sofa if not sit on it? The practical use case is not unlike Lunar Land, the company that sells land on the moon (John Cleese, the comedian and “Monty Python” alum, recently spoofed the NFT craze, and likened it to a classic huckster sales pitch, when he offered an NFT of an iPad drawing of the Brooklyn Bridge for $69.3 million).

Mars House, billed as “the first NFT digital house in the world,” recently sold for 288 Ether, or $512,000.

Krista Kim, the Toronto-based artist who designed Mars House, said she created it on an iPad last spring. She had been making what she described as “digital Zen gardens,” and Mars House, inspired by the serene and stylish architecture of Kyoto, Japan, was her actual dream home: It was designed specifically for the metaverse, the term for a shared virtual space.

When she listed Mars House for sale on the NFT marketplace SuperRare, Ms. Kim was curious to see whether this digital house would sell for the amount of a real home. She wasn’t surprised when it did. “I could foresee in the future that we would have digital architecture,” Ms. Kim said, where with augmented reality glasses, “people would spend times in digital homes, digital spaces.”

Mr. Lotlikar imagines monetizing virtual real estate within the metaverse — say, by leasing billboard space to advertisers or buying and selling properties as you would in the physical world. Ms. Kim has been granted permission by the new owner of Mars House to open it for public tours and private events through the virtual reality platform Spatial. “We are going to host the first metaverse wedding in June in the Mars House,” she said.
Andres Reisinger, a digital artist based in Barcelona, Spain, designs surreal furniture that moves back and forth between the physical and the digital. “The original works are digital,” Mr. Reisinger said. “But it’s very interesting when some of my digital pieces evolve.”

Take, for instance, his Hortensia chair. Mr. Reisinger created the chair covered with geometric pink petals as a digital work, wanting to capture “the feeling of blooming flowers.” But after posting an image to Instagram, the chair met with such fanfare that he put it into production. A limited-edition sold out through a gallery in Milan, and, depending on the edition number, went for “around 30,000 euros.” Now he is in talks with Moooi, the Dutch furniture brand, to create a line based on his digital designs.

Mr. Reisinger’s latest NFT furniture series, the Shipping Collection, numbered 10 digital pieces, five of which were physically produced as well, and sold for the equivalent of $450,000 in crypto. “Some collectors were almost rejecting the physical pieces,” Mr. Reisinger said. “For them, the ownership of the artworks was more important.”

Pablo Fraile, a self-described digital art patron, collects the work of Mr. Reisinger. The work has “a layer of depth,” he said, that is beyond even traditional art. “He was able to produce an object that I have in my home, and I also have the NFT, and I also have the digital object,” said Mr. Fraile. “That is the only single available object of that kind.”

Yes, he acknowledged, a real chair is more useful. You can admire it in your home. “But it is less efficient than what I can do with the digital ones,” said Mr. Fraile, who lives in Miami. “We’re going to do a show in Europe. The NFT is going to cost me a few dollars to send and it can be presented in many ways.”

attempting to auction off an actual home in Thousand Oaks, Calif., that also includes an NFT artwork by the artist Kii Arens. The winning bidder for the NFT also gets title to the physical home.

Instead of going through the Multiple Listing Service, or MLS, Mr. Dulgeroff used the OpenSea platform, yet another marketplace for digital items and crypto collectibles. The minimum bid is 540 Ether, or around $1.5 million.

“Did I want to sell the real estate? Not really,” Mr. Dulgeroff said. “But it’s the first real estate sale being transacted in the NFT format. I was willing to do it to be a navigator of the space.”

So far, there is more than a week to go, and no bids.

 

[amadeus]

Created my own ｎｏｎ　ｆｕｎｇｉｂｌｅ　ｔｏｋｅｎ just now.

I'm offering it for sale, any offer to be considered. I will accept the best offer within 24 hours.

If you're wondering why it's four colors it's meant to be a two-bit idea.

edit: so far Birdjaguar is in the lead with one "like"
edit 2: the token has appreciated in value

 

[Lexicus]

I read today that you can now buy title to digital real estate. I look for the link.

This has been the case for some time at least with respect to RPG worlds.

 

[Birdjaguar]

This has been the case for some time at least with respect to RPG worlds.

But at superworldapp.com you can buy Trump Tower.

 

[Lexicus]

But at superworldapp.com you can buy Trump Tower.

I visited this website and it does appear to be a video game per this blurb:

When you purchase a plot of virtual real estate in SuperWorld, you’ll not only own a one-of-a-kind digital asset, you’ll also become a stakeholder on our platform and share in revenue created on your virtual land from user activity, including: In-game purchases, transactions, advertising, eCommerce, digital commerce, and gaming.

So this is only "new" in that this "game world" is just a copy of the real world? The "innovation" here is basically being too lazy to build your own world?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Why build a new one when we have a very nice one at hand?