What can the Democrats do?

i presume you mean economically required.

let's focus on leftists. please enlighten me what you believe leftists think are required in rural areas. what is the leftist solution to this that is mistaken

Its the old rural/urban divide.

Every western style country electoral maps urban goes liberal generally, rich areas and rural tend to fo conservative/right.

Usual suspects go left (young. Minorities, women). Older voters, men, rich go right.

Very broadly that's the way it goes. You still get 30-40% who don't follow the trend on those groups.

University degrees are also concentrated in urban areas. Free student loans or similar are popular in liberal circles. Majority of the population don't care because they don't go to university.

Rural areas jobs are often primary industries and agricultural plus associated services.

Average urbanite has no idea what those jobs entails beyond physical labour. They've either never done those jobs or at best briefly did some during summer.


Very few lgbtq live in rural areas. People at best are indifferent in rural areas it doesn't effect them.

Rural areas tend to be overwhelmingly white in western style countries. That's changing a bit as illegal or visa holders go there to do those jobs.

Rural areas lack the labour required to do those jobs. Wages tend to be lower so people wont generally want to move their to do that work.

Pay workers more sounds fine in theory. Reality is people in cities don't really want to do that. People are already complaining about cost of living/inflation.

Most people don't really think how the food arrives in the supermarket. They have a superficial understanding of it gets there via trucks. Their idea of a cold winters day is walk from car to a building. They've never really had to work outside in said cold winters day with ice on the ground (I have).

Finally some of those jobs are out right awful. People ***** and moan about flipping burgers but that's comparatively easy. Vegans and vegetarians are still in a minority. Most people eat meat.

I'm guessing most people have no idea of the practicality of eating meat. They've never been to an abbatoir/slaughter house/ freezing works whatever you call it. Or worked in one. The worst part is the smell btw it smells like death that's assuming its clean and well run.

Some poor bastard has to I'll the animals. That's a hard job to fill. Here often ex cons end up doing it. Pays surprisingly well. Its industrialized slaughter. Boning rooms tend to damage tendons in your hands. I haven't done that but I have done filleting and exported it at ports. Growing up both neighbors each side and over both sides worked at the local meat plant.

Lots of heavy lifting. Sone poor bastard has to do it. I've done 70kg fish. My friend has done 100kg side of beef. Fertilizer bags used to weigh 50kg. Loading a container sucks (I've done 5 in a day working in pairs we lifted 75000kg that day).

Unloading containers is even worse. Chicken farm even worse than slaughterhouse.


Communists here talk a big gane but they're clueless to what those jobs entails. Ironically theyre reliant on reactionary farmer types for the food they eat. Young Zard indirectly fed those loud mouth types lol.

Alot of these people aren't stupid but theyre not educated. People with degrees in those areas are maybe 10% or so. They don't care about the latest trends on tik tok or Twitter. How reactionary tghy are will vary by country/person. Unemployment is often low usually because they export their unemployment to the cities. It seems older people leave to go to cities when young most don't come back.

So yeah. I grew up in that type of area. 3 years on a farm, 2 seasons picking fruit work lots of blue collar type jobs in factories, ports, warehouse. Bit older more paperwork for export order, shipping things like that.

Even in very liberal cities there's a whole world people don't see. I remember my university lecturer being shocked when I told him what goes on very close to where he was sitting. The average academic or white collar type has limited if any interaction with the blue collar jobs less than 1km from them. They're the ones on construction sites, factories, ports. They tend to swing right wing even in very liberal areas.

Even the left wing union types tend to be of the harden up butter cup variety. They're not hanging around in the same social circles and any interaction is superficial at best (I pay you to fix my house or whatever).

That's where you hear inappropriate jokes, the swearing and casual levels of racism or whatever. When I return home or are staying in rural areas I tend to dress like the locals (jeans, label shirt, "mans" jacket) so over hear things or have people directly moaning to me about something stupid. Its a very different mentality. I rarely visit my hometown now my mother has passed and sister+ kid left this year.

Most aren't evil or cruel more limited exposure to the wider world. They're working a rough job, never been on unemployment own their own home so why cant "more people be like them" type attitude.
 
Rural areas jobs are often primary industries and agricultural plus associated services.

Average urbanite has no idea what those jobs entails beyond physical labour. They've either never done those jobs or at best briefly did some during summer.


Very few lgbtq live in rural areas. People at best are indifferent in rural areas it doesn't effect them.

Dawg you gotta get some of these statements about rural people right or you sound just like one of those dumbass urban folk. The most common jobs in rural America overwhelmingly are in education and health care. Teachers. Nurses. Home health. Administrators.

Some of these people are queer.
 
Its the old rural/urban divide.

Every western style country electoral maps urban goes liberal generally, rich areas and rural tend to fo conservative/right.

Usual suspects go left (young. Minorities, women). Older voters, men, rich go right.

Very broadly that's the way it goes. You still get 30-40% who don't follow the trend on those groups.

University degrees are also concentrated in urban areas. Free student loans or similar are popular in liberal circles. Majority of the population don't care because they don't go to university.

Rural areas jobs are often primary industries and agricultural plus associated services.

Average urbanite has no idea what those jobs entails beyond physical labour. They've either never done those jobs or at best briefly did some during summer.


Very few lgbtq live in rural areas. People at best are indifferent in rural areas it doesn't effect them.

Rural areas tend to be overwhelmingly white in western style countries. That's changing a bit as illegal or visa holders go there to do those jobs.

Rural areas lack the labour required to do those jobs. Wages tend to be lower so people wont generally want to move their to do that work.

Pay workers more sounds fine in theory. Reality is people in cities don't really want to do that. People are already complaining about cost of living/inflation.

Most people don't really think how the food arrives in the supermarket. They have a superficial understanding of it gets there via trucks. Their idea of a cold winters day is walk from car to a building. They've never really had to work outside in said cold winters day with ice on the ground (I have).

Finally some of those jobs are out right awful. People ***** and moan about flipping burgers but that's comparatively easy. Vegans and vegetarians are still in a minority. Most people eat meat.

I'm guessing most people have no idea of the practicality of eating meat. They've never been to an abbatoir/slaughter house/ freezing works whatever you call it. Or worked in one. The worst part is the smell btw it smells like death that's assuming its clean and well run.

Some poor bastard has to I'll the animals. That's a hard job to fill. Here often ex cons end up doing it. Pays surprisingly well. Its industrialized slaughter. Boning rooms tend to damage tendons in your hands. I haven't done that but I have done filleting and exported it at ports. Growing up both neighbors each side and over both sides worked at the local meat plant.

Lots of heavy lifting. Sone poor bastard has to do it. I've done 70kg fish. My friend has done 100kg side of beef. Fertilizer bags used to weigh 50kg. Loading a container sucks (I've done 5 in a day working in pairs we lifted 75000kg that day).

Unloading containers is even worse. Chicken farm even worse than slaughterhouse.


Communists here talk a big gane but they're clueless to what those jobs entails. Ironically theyre reliant on reactionary farmer types for the food they eat. Young Zard indirectly fed those loud mouth types lol.

Alot of these people aren't stupid but theyre not educated. People with degrees in those areas are maybe 10% or so. They don't care about the latest trends on tik tok or Twitter. How reactionary tghy are will vary by country/person. Unemployment is often low usually because they export their unemployment to the cities. It seems older people leave to go to cities when young most don't come back.

So yeah. I grew up in that type of area. 3 years on a farm, 2 seasons picking fruit work lots of blue collar type jobs in factories, ports, warehouse. Bit older more paperwork for export order, shipping things like that.

Even in very liberal cities there's a whole world people don't see. I remember my university lecturer being shocked when I told him what goes on very close to where he was sitting. The average academic or white collar type has limited if any interaction with the blue collar jobs less than 1km from them. They're the ones on construction sites, factories, ports. They tend to swing right wing even in very liberal areas.

Even the left wing union types tend to be of the harden up butter cup variety. They're not hanging around in the same social circles and any interaction is superficial at best (I pay you to fix my house or whatever).

That's where you hear inappropriate jokes, the swearing and casual levels of racism or whatever. When I return home or are staying in rural areas I tend to dress like the locals (jeans, label shirt, "mans" jacket) so over hear things or have people directly moaning to me about something stupid. Its a very different mentality. I rarely visit my hometown now my mother has passed and sister+ kid left this year.

Most aren't evil or cruel more limited exposure to the wider world. They're working a rough job, never been on unemployment own their own home so why cant "more people be like them" type attitude.
none of this answers my question
Communists here talk a big gane
so what game do they talk. what do you think leftists think is required in this area (not what you think is required or what you think are problems; what they think are solutions, not in what wins votes, but what they think is needed to do. because your claim is that there was a detachment there. show me)
 
Dixiecrats - segregationist Democrats - that did win in the south are NOT what people commonly perceive. They were not pro welfare racists. Dixiecrats were anti tax, anti spending racists. You can find their speeches and policies going back decades - they rant about welfare going to the wrong people, balanced budgets, yada yada.

They won in the south.

They then left the Democrat party over time to join the Republicans post Civil Rights era, and win in the south. Their policies actually have NOT changed.

So. What is your proposal for modern Democrats to win West Virginia? Or Mississippi? Given 70 years of dominance of anti spending, anti welfare, pro racism. What plank should Dems take on? How would that work?

Biden just oversaw a presidency that gave more money to GOP states than ANY presidency ever. Dems ploughed money into rust belt areas, southern factories, etc. Then in 2024 they won WV 65-35- oh wait.
I'll have a crack.

To begin with: ideological flexibility. On abortion, on, yeah, some LGBT issues, allow candidates actually representative of popular consensus. This is the most bitter pill to swallow; but likely necessary.

Candidates promoted should be of the cultural norms of the WV population. Veterans with an accent that grew up in a holler without indoor plumbing(not uncommon there) are your friends. They will establish cultural credibility and moral authority within the state; these are likely going to have some views thought retrograde...but it's just something you're gonna have to put up with. They can tap into the anti-elitist strain that's still there, a college grad familiar with the byzantine norms of the liberal bourgeois cannot do that.

Importantly, do not expect swift change. Dem party chiefs in the state should begin to create social networks that lend support, where possible and ethical, to the important local figures, pastors, etc. You may not like Reverend so and so, but he is the foremost amongst the group of reference for large numbers of individuals in WV. You need those sorta guys to reconsider your party. WV is still pretty...well, clannish. The part of Ohio I live in is, too. Speak with the local, aged hillbilly patriarch and convince him you have his best interests at heart. The votes will follow.
 
To begin with: ideological flexibility. On abortion, on, yeah, some LGBT issues, allow candidates actually representative of popular consensus. This is the most bitter pill to swallow; but likely necessary.
You don't need to triangulate (folks are liable to see through it anyway, that's what happened to the blue dog Dems who used to run this state) as long as you keep the focus on bread and butter issues.

But otherwise, I agree the Dems here have to pretty much rebuild from scratch, and parachuting in some empty suit from NoVa isn't gonna cut it.
 
Moderator Action: I deleted some discussion which mainly went "Yes you did" - "No I did not "etc.
I left it at the last post which contained some more content. Please don't continue like this.
 
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I may well be that all the democrats have to do is nothing. Irrespective of what political propaganda the democrats put out, power is bound to fall into their hands. Trump lately has been doing a good job of undermining himself. I think finally age is showing on him. Won't end as senile as Biden but he's in visible decline.

The issue that in this context will be his undoing is that he sourrounded himself with very greedy and very dumb people. They will keep encouraging more power grabs as the populality of the government crashes. And Trump is deluded enough to thing he can get away with those.
Looking at the rections to their ideas of using the military internally, I think they may well provoke a revolution in the opposite direction of what they're dreaming about.

I recall that the other superpower, when being sabotaged by its own government and already in terminal decline, had a military coup against that government. But too indecisive and weak, with no faith behind it by the soldiers, it just accelerated the collapse. The US may end in the same place through a slightly different path. Trump's gang may try a military coup but they will fail. The reaction will be exactly the opposite of what they intend.

As with other leaders elected in time of crisis, Trump had a chance of turning things about, an ability to risk change. As with others (i recall the mass murdered in Israel) he (not usurprisingly, I have to admit) chose instead to double down on the path to destruction.
Instead of taxing the rich (the only way to unwind the the debt problem other than collapse), Trump's gang deliberately inflated the already ongoing cryptocurrency and AI bubbles in a desperate attempt at drawing foreign investment (through financial speculation in US stock exchanges) and postponing the terminal decline of the dollar. Biut the dollar is still going to rubble, to adapt the soundbye of the prior senile one. They did more of the same.
Instead of doing industrial policy by strategic state investment and by reducing rent extraction in the economy (absolutely necessary for lowering costs), Trump's gang decided to use tariffs as a tax replacement so they could enable the wealthy to pay even lower taxes on the rents those economic parasites collect. They managed to accelerate the collapse.
Instead of exiting from foreign draining wars, Trump's gang has kept wasting resources on the lost Israel and Ukraine fronts, therefore owning defeat there, certainly not avoiding nor postponing it but instead making it more visible for the whole world to ttake notice and move out of vassalate to the failing empire now without fear. The US military now offers the spectacle of being fit only to support the bombing of women and children, attacking unarmed fishermen, and attempting to intimidate its own citizens. They did more of the same.

Democrats have just to wait. In the sad political system the US has, power will fall in their hands as the current government commits political suicide in their attempted power grabs. Would be dictators who cannot make the people with the guns obey them get kicked out pretty fast, by the system itself no revolution necessary, when they overplay their hand. They become politically toxic and have to be ritually sacrificed to appease the people, lest the whole system is overthrown. I put Trump's odds of being impeached at over 50% now. By the democrats and his own party, next year if he keeps going as he is. Thers'e also some odds of a Ceausescu-type collapse, the rest of the gang trying to hold on to power making him the scapegoat for the whole gang.
The fall of Trump's government won't arrest decline though. As I commented on Starmer replacing Boris, the new guys will prove just as bad, just as unwilling to change course. I dare say in the democrat's case, structurally unable. They are beholden to, financed and owned by, the oligarchs in the US, and lack any charismatic and popular figure who might act independently agaisnt them.
 
I may well be that all the democrats have to do is nothing. Irrespective of what political propaganda the democrats put out, power is bound to fall into their hands. Trump lately has been doing a good job of undermining himself. I think finally age is showing on him. Won't end as senile as Biden but he's in visible decline.

The issue that in this context will be his undoing is that he sourrounded himself with very greedy and very dumb people. They will keep encouraging more power grabs as the populality of the government crashes. And Trump is deluded enough to thing he can get away with those.
Looking at the rections to their ideas of using the military internally, I think they may well provoke a revolution in the opposite direction of what they're dreaming about.

I recall that the other superpower, when being sabotaged by its own government and already in terminal decline, had a military coup against that government. But too indecisive and weak, with no faith behind it by the soldiers, it just accelerated the collapse. The US may end in the same place through a slightly different path. Trump's gang may try a military coup but they will fail. The reaction will be exactly the opposite of what they intend.

As with other leaders elected in time of crisis, Trump had a chance of turning things about, an ability to risk change. As with others (i recall the mass murdered in Israel) he (not usurprisingly, I have to admit) chose instead to double down on the path to destruction.
Instead of taxing the rich (the only way to unwind the the debt problem other than collapse), Trump's gang deliberately inflated the already ongoing cryptocurrency and AI bubbles in a desperate attempt at drawing foreign investment (through financial speculation in US stock exchanges) and postponing the terminal decline of the dollar. Biut the dollar is still going to rubble, to adapt the soundbye of the prior senile one. They did more of the same.
Instead of doing industrial policy by strategic state investment and by reducing rent extraction in the economy (absolutely necessary for lowering costs), Trump's gang decided to use tariffs as a tax replacement so they could enable the wealthy to pay even lower taxes on the rents those economic parasites collect. They managed to accelerate the collapse.
Instead of exiting from foreign draining wars, Trump's gang has kept wasting resources on the lost Israel and Ukraine fronts, therefore owning defeat there, certainly not avoiding nor postponing it but instead making it more visible for the whole world to ttake notice and move out of vassalate to the failing empire now without fear. The US military now offers the spectacle of being fit only to support the bombing of women and children, attacking unarmed fishermen, and attempting to intimidate its own citizens. They did more of the same.

Democrats have just to wait. In the sad political system the US has, power will fall in their hands as the current government commits political suicide in their attempted power grabs. Would be dictators who cannot make the people with the guns obey them get kicked out pretty fast, by the system itself no revolution necessary, when they overplay their hand. They become politically toxic and have to be ritually sacrificed to appease the people, lest the whole system is overthrown. I put Trump's odds of being impeached at over 50% now. By the democrats and his own party, next year if he keeps going as he is. Thers'e also some odds of a Ceausescu-type collapse, the rest of the gang trying to hold on to power making him the scapegoat for the whole gang.
The fall of Trump's government won't arrest decline though. As I commented on Starmer replacing Boris, the new guys will prove just as bad, just as unwilling to change course. I dare say in the democrat's case, structurally unable. They are beholden to, financed and owned by, the oligarchs in the US, and lack any charismatic and popular figure who might act independently agaisnt them.

I said that a while ago. Let them govern and they defeat themselves.

A blue ham salad might win in 2028 at this rate.

Its a shallow win though.
 
Well my name is not Cassandra. But here we go.

I really feel that Donald Trump will most likely have a tragic personal fate, and nothing as civilised as impeachment.

Thoughts of old Emperor Tiberius, who was probably strangled by Macro and his bodyguard, spring to mind.

Deploying the military inside the USA will result in incidents leading towards civil war, maybe with some
states edging towards dec facto declaring independence. The elected houses will be paralyzed by indecision,
and the supreme court hesitant and split; and so at some point his secret service may, after consulting the
supreme court etc to no avail, decide it is necessary to take such drastic action to preserve the union.

The only question to me is whether they off Donald Trump or his vice-president first. Both may go.

It is possible that the vice-president will depose him after a health incident, but he may hesitate
or find out afterwards that a suspicious military won't accept his authority.

It is quite sad.

They ought to have disqualified him at impeachment, leaving him to play golf and star in talk shows.
 
Trump's gang has kept wasting resources on the lost Israel and Ukraine fronts
My perception is that the weapons sent, specially the ones sent to Ukraine (not at all a lost front) are being paid for.

It's not lost on me that every time you comment (once a week or so!) the slivers of truth you write are amplified in a way to undermine as much as possible the western community and, specially EU citizens, by parroting your Russia centred world-view propaganda.

I think CFC is not the best auditorium for this, maybe try Avante or esquerdanet, because I don't believe the folks here that might be slightly moved by your words are or will ever be Russia lovers after what their dictator did to Ukraine.
 
My perception is that the weapons sent, specially the ones sent to Ukraine (not at all a lost front) are being paid for.

It's not lost on me that every time you comment (once a week or so!) the slivers of truth you write are amplified in a way to undermine as much as possible the western community and, specially EU citizens, by parroting your Russia centred world-view propaganda.

I think CFC is not the best auditorium for this, maybe try Avante or esquerdanet, because I don't believe the folks here that might be slightly moved by your words are or will ever be Russia lovers after what their dictator did to Ukraine.

Even then i wouldn't be calling it obe way or another.

Not looking goid for Russia atm and my desired result. Ukraine could collapse tomorrow. So coukd Russia these things can happen fast.
 
Getting back to the original guy in the OP, I don’t think invoking their religious beliefs as a part of governance is a sell to those who already believe it’s a large part of how they vote, and conversely I think would see it as being a ham-fisted attempt at appealing to them. Religion, I’d just say it’s a private matter, I believe, and it influences my moral choices—leave it at that.

One of the other problems that came to my mind was when Obama said “you didn’t build that”—the phrasing was such that it missed the point I think he was trying to make and ended up alienating people: the point was that a good public infrastructure is necessary for successful commerce, and I’m sure there are a hundred better ways he could have said that without it coming out as a dismissive, almost hostile angle.

What’s the point? Framing is important, and I think Democrats have repeatedly taken otherwise sound ideas and made them unpalatable to the electorate. I think it’s entirely possible to do, and I’d advise Republicans to do the same but I don’t think they do it on such a scale that it sinks some of their candidates.
 
America's titans of industry have only been able to build the flourishing companies that they have because of the extraordinarily favorable circumstances provided by this nation's tax spending: a massive military that removes any threat of the instability of warfare, welfare spending that reduces the likelihood of domestic instability, educational systems that generate a productive workforce, unparalleled infrastructure for the movement of raw materials and manufactured goods. Those flourishing companies must therefore support, at a level appropriate to the vast profits they generate, those conditions, if for no other reason than for the sake of the ongoing viability of America's businesses.

I still resent Obama for his flat-footed expression of that idea.
 
My perception is that the weapons sent, specially the ones sent to Ukraine (not at all a lost front) are being paid for.

It's not lost on me that every time you comment (once a week or so!) the slivers of truth you write are amplified in a way to undermine as much as possible the western community and, specially EU citizens, by parroting your Russia centred world-view propaganda.

I think CFC is not the best auditorium for this, maybe try Avante or esquerdanet, because I don't believe the folks here that might be slightly moved by your words are or will ever be Russia lovers after what their dictator did to Ukraine.

Paid for? By whom? Ukraine is a drain on finances, it cannot pay for anything. It keeps gertting loans and grands from european countries. and teh US now the plan is to have the european vassals pay the US, so said teh german woman. It won't happen because it can't happen. Governments are run by believers in market fetishism, averse to taxing the rich, and economies are failing. Loot at unemployment rising in Germany. Or in Lisbon as you live tgere, go into a café and ask how much the germans tourists are spending compared to last year, and the year before.

Trump had his chance to associate the war in Ukrane with Biden and dump it. Screw the europeans, what have they ever done for the US besides using it besides playing it as a counterweight to other countries? The US in turn exploited economically the europeans countries under its influence, fair enough for some people perhaps. But now that relationship broke down. The US is useless as a counterweight to anything because everyone sees its military hardware and its military itself failing again and again. The Vietnam-like escape from Afghanistan. Israel calling uncle under iranian missiles when using nearly useles US AA system. The US navy running away from the Red Sea and anywhere near Yemen.
No one is going to pay the US for protection that everyone has seen the US cannot provide effectively any longer.* Nor pay tribute to the dane without a navy and warriors capable of invading. That german woman, for once I'm saying a positive thing about her, played Trump for a fool: what the EU Commission promised (hundreds of billions in investment and LNG buying) is something that is not within the powers of the Commission to execute. It was an empty promise. Unlike the tribute the US is trying to extort from the governments of Japan, Korea and Taiwan, the EU did not bount its member countries to anything.
Trump was a foll to own the war in Ukrane by taking these empty promises and saying he'll keep the US in active support of it. Now he'll own the defeat and have nothing to show for it to his voters. And it will happen before the elections in late 2026.
This probably won't be a major component of his defeat then. His self-sabotaging of the US economy is the important thing. But it'll contribute to ill feelings among voters in a year of fiscar crisis. Even if the democrats, who also own that particular war, can't go into that territory. The Greens in Germany didn't do well after saying their voters that they'd screw them to pay for war in Ukraine.

Trump can lie about Ukraine paying for eapons, but it is as with his government subsidizing the argentinian creep and thief Millei with loans that will never be repaid: everyone knows he's throwing away money while telling his own citizens that they can't be paid becuse the federal government is broke.

*did you notice Saudi Arabia signing a mutual defense pact with Pakistan?
 
Prediction market intermission!



Quite a bit of money in the pot - $100 mil $50 mil respectively. Everyone wants to voice an opinion!

Some of you may need VPN to visit these.
Spoiler Democratic Presidential Nominee :

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Spoiler Presidential Election Winner :


Screenshot 2025-10-10 at 19.22.14.png

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"The Rock" being on there at all confirms @Sommerswerd's position that people will be yearning for celebrity status.

Campaign slogans write themselves.
 
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