What could of been done with the Iraq war money?

[Sui Generis]

We did that for 20 years, where were you?

After the genocides, we had to say "enough is enough". Invading Iraq was a moral obligation that took too long to come.



Let's say 200,000 civilians (I think that's a fair estimation). That is nothing compared to what Saddam did in just a couple years.

In the end, we saved more lives than we ended and Saddam was hanged by his own people. Can't ask for much more than that... though democracy would be nice.

At this time, we are working on bonus points (installing a stable democracy). The war was a success the day the Iraqis hanged Saddam and the genocide was ended forever.

We did not save more lives then we ended. That is simply false. This should be a fun debate

 

[Ecofarm]

We did not save more lives then we ended. That is simply false. This should be a fun debate

That's completely true, I've already provided the data. Did you not know that Saddam was a murderous genocidal dicator? Do you assume that he changed?

Were you unaware of the Kurds, the Swamp Arabs or the political assassinations?

One would need to have no knowledge, whatsoever, of 1987-2003 to have your perspective (note: this leaves out his Saddam's wars of the 1980s). Get educated.

 

[cubsfan6506]

Do the math, Saddam re-directed the "oil for food" money and directly killed 400,000 children.


Do you want to pretend that Iraq was a western democracy before?


Besides, food aid only addresses the symptom, it's basically throwing money away.

When your "Iraq money" runs out, do you intend to let them starve?

Or do you admit that it is a temporary solution to a permenant problem and you have really done nothing to change the situation with your proposal. Smoke and mirrors, that's all I get from your plan. I'll take an end to genocide and perhaps even a new democracy over that anyday.

Here's an article for you, from an African intellectual:

"For God's Sake, Please Stop the Aid!"

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,363663,00.html

So

1. Spending money on Iraq, ending genocide and perhaps installing a stable democracy.

2. BS (your plan).

Easy decision.

I wouldn't spend it all on food aid, It was just an example. Nor do I really
have the time to pretend to know how to spend five hundred billion dollars, I do however know that this was a waste and their are much beter wayst hen a war that at most saves 5 million.

 

[Bigfoot3814]

Honestly, probably the last way I'd want to see Iraqis die is at the hands of their own leader. That being said, I'd rather not see them die at all.

 

[Ecofarm]

I do however know that this was a waste and their are much beter wayst hen a war that at most saves 5 million.

You are completely wrong and inventing stuff out of your butt to try to cover for your ignorance.

All you wanted to do was bash the Iraq war and now you are unable to even answer your own thread question.

You're only contribution at this point is: "The Iraq War was a waste of money". And you completely fail, despite having made the OP, to provide any evidence or viable counter plan at all. Gratz.

Dude, just make that your thread title next time and spare us your embarrassment.

 

[cubsfan6506]

We could of also not spent it and have a balnced budget, I do think my food plan was a good idea for some of the money not all of it though.

 

[Mad Man]

They could have gave me the money so i could build my global empire of evil

 

[Ecofarm]

Why not spend the money we gave CEOs (700 million)? We spent that in one day! For rich people!

Because this thread was not about "how to spend 500m", and you know it.

It was a cheap little shot at the war (which saved millions of lives) only barely disguised. Pathetic.

 

[Bigfoot3814]

World War II caused the death of 72 million people worldwide. How many did it save? I dunno, probably less. Does that mean we shouldn't have bothered? We should have given that money to fight world hunger?

 

[Ecofarm]

An aside: I do not believe that food aid fights world hunger.

Address the source - a lack of liberty and economic freedom. We've been addressing the symptom for half a century with no results. But some people want to keep doing the same things?!

What happened to a time for a change?

Are there any revolutionaries left alive besides me? What a teenage wasteland. You all just want to do the same things your parents did. What a shame.

 

[cubsfan6506]

Why not spend the money we gave CEOs (700 million)? We spent that in one day! For rich people!

Because this thread was not about "how to spend 500m", and you know it.

It was a cheap little shot at the war (which saved millions of lives) only barely disguised. Pathetic.

It was totally about the iraq war. It was showing what could of been done with the war, btw it's five hundred billion not million.

 

[Ecofarm]

You have shown NOTHING that compares to ending the genocide of hundreds of thousands and attempting to install democracy in the heart of darkness.

You will never be able to invent an action (or invent results) to surpass the tremendous good (and lives saved) that comes from the Iraq war.

For fun, shall we compare it to the wall-street bail out (700b)?

 

[Bigfoot3814]

So am I totally wrong in guessing you don't think the effort in Afghanistan is worth any money?

 

[Ecofarm]

^^ That's directed at you, Cubs.

Cat got your tongue?

 

[Sui Generis]

That's completely true, I've already provided the data. Did you not know that Saddam was a murderous genocidal dicator? Do you assume that he changed?

Were you unaware of the Kurds, the Swamp Arabs or the political assassinations?

One would need to have no knowledge, whatsoever, of 1987-2003 to have your perspective (note: this leaves out his Saddam's wars of the 1980s). Get educated.

So... kill 200,000 for freedom. Lets invade North Korea!!!

And the number is more like 1.2 million civilians killed in Iraq since the invasion.

Saddam, that pansy, took 20 years to kill 600,000 people(thats your number, right). We take pride in the fact that we can double that number in 5 years, along with destroying the countries infrastructure and damaging our own economy.

 

[cubsfan6506]

No there was legitimite danger comeing from afganistan. To answer your previous question WW2 definitly should of been fought, but the comparison to the Iraq war is completely stupid. (I would be willing to argue that more then 72 million livers were saved by fighting ww2.) If only we had finishned off the soviets many more lives could of been saved.

No ecofarm I am currently mantaining this conversation a rl one and another forumn.

I wouldn't be opposed to invadeing north korea.

 

[@N1k1T0$]

Even if someone believes Iraq is the best thing that could been done with the money spend on Iraq isn't that of topic ? Maybe one could be allowed to post it once or twice but not to consume the topic... Here we think alternative ways they could been spent , am i correct ?

I wouldn't be opposed to invadeing north korea.

You are aware of what would be the cost of doing that and the fact that nothing good can come from that choice ? Why aren't you opposed to such invasion ? Personally i think the de facto reaction should be "I am of course opposed".

Now i see it to be "Give me a hundreds reasons to not be opposed to an invasion of a foreign country". Why is that i wonder ? And my reaction to that is to blame the media...

 

[cubsfan6506]

Perhaps north korea would be a bad choice. If i remember correctly they do have enough military hardware to make thing's hell for south korea.

 

[@N1k1T0$]

Perhaps north korea would be a bad choice. If i remember correctly they do have enough military hardware to make thing's hell for south korea.

Not only south Korea. North Korea is like a huge army that works for one dictator and they call it a Nation. Is more of a huge military than a state or a nation actually from my perspective.

Sinserly i also think that we should first consider all possible invasion targets as bad choices and after extreme effort one should attempt to conclude if that is not the case. But of course i am asking too much from a public getting 24/7 specific propaganda.

 

[Ecofarm]

And the number is more like 1.2 million civilians killed in Iraq since the invasion.

Haha! You are using Lancet numbers? What a tool.

Saddam, that pansy, took 20 years to kill 600,000 people(thats your number, right). We take pride in the fact that we can double that number in 5 years, along with destroying the countries infrastructure and damaging our own economy.

Let's see...

250k kurds
50k Swamp arabs
50k political assassinations
400k children

From 1987 - 2003 (about 15 years).

This ignores his war with Iran (where millions died), but we will leave that out so that the numbers are close (just to be nice to you). This also ignores casualities from Gulf 1 (you know, when he invaded Kuwait without pretense).

So, we have 750k / 15 years = 50,000 per year

Iraq war is 200,000 (and I'm being generous, you Lancet tool) / 5 years = 40,000 / year.

I am also being generous by not including the Iraq-Iran war or more suspect numbers for the genocide and political slaughter.


What did they get from Saddam? NOTHING.

From us they got freedom.

A majority of Iraqis are happier today than under Saddam.

MOST Iraqis believe life is better for them now than it was under Saddam Hussein, according to a British opinion poll published today.

The survey of more than 5,000 Iraqis found the majority optimistic despite their suffering in sectarian violence since the American-led invasion four years ago this week.

One in four Iraqis has had a family member murdered, says the poll by Opinion Research Business. In Baghdad, the capital, one in four has had a relative kidnapped and one in three said members of their family had fled abroad. But when asked whether they preferred life under Saddam, the dictator who was executed last December, or under Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, most replied that things were better for them today.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article1530762.ece

And that was before the surge.