What do you think of the Beatification of JOHN PAUL II?

What is that text? And how did they come to believe that it was the "migration from polytheism to monotheism"?

The belief regarding the migration from polytheism to monotheism is due to archaeology of the Canaanite region. The history of that region (and the history of the Old Testament) is a complex story, and people who were raised using the Bible as a source of history tend to be misinformed regarding the real history.

Now, I think the migration towards monotheism started in the period around which we'd place David/Solomon, but it's been a bit since I looked at that. Again, archaeology.

For textual reference, we have to remember that the Old Testament is actually a compiled series of documents, each having a different historical tradition, that was merged into one document. The wikipedia page on this is a decent starting point, though obviously you'd want to get an actual textbook or two if you're really interested in knowing your stuff.

Anyway, because there are these different sources, we can see the 'throwback' to polytheism in some of the text. Remember, the compilers of the Old Testament into the Babylonian form were obviously monotheistic. They were just honest enough as scholars to try to keep as much of the original documentation/phrasings/text as possible. They were interpreting the text as monotheistic, though.

Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for eve
The word 'gods' here is the same word as 'God'. It's a plural term as well as being a singular term, and you have to use context to figure out whether the author means plural or not. It's a bit like the word 'sheep'. However the (E) text periodically refers to plural gods, one of the first cropping up is that humans would become gods after eating the fruit of the tree. In fact, the gods talk amongst themselves (or God talks to the gods). Now, it's easy to back-justify as assume that it's the trinity or the 'royal we' or something like that, but to do so is an error in conceptualisation

So, when you say "Otherwise, the Bible would have said that God ruled over other gods.", you're actually correct. It's what people thought!
Exd 18:11 Now I know that the LORD [is] greater than all gods: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly [he was] above them.
Not, "they're not real", but "He is above them". In the Moses part of the story, the gods are referred to, but not denied as actually existing.

It's not until later, with writings by later priests, do we see Elohim turning into a 'true' god and statements against other gods being non-existent. These passages were written during/after the Solomon era, during the push from polytheism to monotheism.

Now, if a person is just interested in proving the Bible as 'true', then what I wrote can be brushed aside. However, a person who is interested in history is encouraged to keep this idea in the back of their head, and to seek a more authoritative source than I am for more information.
 
EM, that seems a little off topic
 
I have nothing significant to add to this discussion, but I always dig reading your stories about growing up in the environment in Poland at the time - it's always interesting and even education. Keep it up. :goodjob:

Maybe I should open up an "I used to live in communist Poland - AMA" thread one of these days
 
When did it surface, then?

:lol:He's kidding, isn't he? You don't think? :wow: No, he HAS to be kidding, there's just no freaking way.... :hmm:

You're kidding, right? :please: No? :eek: Seriously? :dubious: Here, learn a little bit about what you're talking about, no charge. :pat:

In the time between when you posted that and now, you could've read the entire John Jay report, or at least the volumes Wikipedia has to say on the subject. You should at least know that it was going on for decades under JP2, and he was fully aware of the problem.
 
That wouldn't stop the media from reporting it.

No, but the media is going to report on things people are actually interested in hearing about. Reports of a miracle that actually isn't is not interesting to the American people as a whole.


"Thou Shalt Have No Other Gods Before Me" - Ten Commandments - God

Yes, that is the quotation I used to start this whole conversation. My point was that he says "No other Gods before me". He doesn't say "I am the only God and there aren't any others" or "I am the only supernatural being in the universe", he just says "no one before me", which could just as easily mean "it's ok to believe in other gods, so long as I'm on top", so why is that unequivocally not the case?
 
Maybe I should open up an "I used to live in communist Poland - AMA" thread one of these days
I would be interested in that. I've always been fascinated by life in the Eastern Block.
Yes, that is the quotation I used to start this whole conversation. My point was that he says "No other Gods before me". He doesn't say "I am the only God and there aren't any others" or "I am the only supernatural being in the universe", he just says "no one before me", which could just as easily mean "it's ok to believe in other gods, so long as I'm on top", so why is that unequivocally not the case?
If I remember a PBS program on the evolution on Judaism, the Ten Commandments were written during a time the Israelites were still formulating their ideas about Monothiesm and hadn't yet decided if they wanted one God, or many Gods with one supreme chief God who should recieve all of their worship.
It has taken on the meaning that 'I am the only God', the original meaning of the passage was far more ambigous.
 
The Ten Commandments speak of God as henotheistic - acknowledging multiple gods but only worshipping one - whereas the later Jewish faith would be monotheistic. It was part of the whole "transcribing oral traditions onto parchment" theme long after their polytheistic beliefs had become almost exclusively monotheistic.
 
:lol:He's kidding, isn't he? You don't think? :wow: No, he HAS to be kidding, there's just no freaking way.... :hmm:

You're kidding, right? :please: No? :eek: Seriously? :dubious: Here, learn a little bit about what you're talking about, no charge. :pat:
It still didn't get a major rebirth until the last year or two.

No, but the media is going to report on things people are actually interested in hearing about. Reports of a miracle that actually isn't is not interesting to the American people as a whole.
So you're saying that people are interested in six year olds crashing cars?

Yes, that is the quotation I used to start this whole conversation. My point was that he says "No other Gods before me". He doesn't say "I am the only God and there aren't any others" or "I am the only supernatural being in the universe", he just says "no one before me", which could just as easily mean "it's ok to believe in other gods, so long as I'm on top", so why is that unequivocally not the case?
To have multiple gods is to have gods before God.
 
Well, that is what the monotheistic churches say, certainly, but the plain English reading is much more ambiguous, I agree.
 
To have multiple gods is to have gods before God.
Not really. You can acknowledge other gods but still hold the God as the supreme God and worship only Him.
 
Yes, that is the quotation I used to start this whole conversation. My point was that he says "No other Gods before me". He doesn't say "I am the only God and there aren't any others" or "I am the only supernatural being in the universe", he just says "no one before me", which could just as easily mean "it's ok to believe in other gods, so long as I'm on top", so why is that unequivocally not the case?

Or it could mean "there are other Gods, but you can't worship them because they're mean and called me beardy-face".
 
It still didn't get a major rebirth until the last year or two.

So what? So what if the thousands of cases over more than half a century have gotten a slight uptick of reporting lately? (it hasn't, but since your point is irrelevant, so is the correction.) The fact of the matter is that the beatiful JPII (JP#1 in our hearts) was aware of the problem and, at best, actively avoided doing anything about it.

And really, I honestly don't know how you can even make that claim with a straight face. If you didn't notice the absolute worldwide firestorm between 2002-2009, what makes you think you are qualified to comment on it's renewed popularity? Nothing. You are making things up as you go along, and when called out on it, you continue to make things up. It's sad, really.
 
It still didn't get a major rebirth until the last year or two.

You wha? Clerical Sex Abuse has consistently been the largest story in this country (Ireland) over the last 20 years (albeit sometimes eclipsed by the related scandal of Clerical Physical Abuse in institutions like the Magdalene Sisters), and through us has kick-started a worldwide furore due to revelations that often abuser priests were exported to other countries in order to keep the whole thing under wraps.

Just because you don't want to acknowledge that a huge scandal has happened, and is currently unfolding (due mainly to it conflicting with your beliefs) doesn't mean it didn't exist.
 
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