What does a MAGA hat stand for?

[Commodore]

"Imagine a world where we can't carte blanche torture and spy on foreigners. Imagine it, Lexicus. Are you afraid?

Except that's not what I said at all...

 

[Synobun]

Except that's not what I said at all...

Your counterargument, to me, seemed to be that believing every human possessed inherent rights would impede the American military's ability to conduct espionage overseas because the espionage wing of the military isn't concerned with petty things like "rights." And that believing this isn't correct or moral is an extremist take.

 

[Lexicus]

Your counterargument, to me, seemed to be that believing every human possessed inherent rights would impede the American military's ability to conduct espionage overseas because the espionage wing of the military isn't concerned with petty things like "rights." And that believing this isn't correct or moral is an extremist take.

I would prefer to just point out that by the standards of Western Civilization, whose defenders constantly remind us of its superiority because of "Enlightenment values," the basic Enlightenment values (one of which is indeed that national origin should not determine a person's lot in life, or how they are treated by the law) are actually extremist positions.

But don't squint at this too hard, because then you might conclude that the US government is referred to by its own founding document as a "Form of Government [...] destructive to these ends" and that this document further states "it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it"

 

[Commodore]

Your counterargument, to me, seemed to be that believing every human possessed inherent rights would impede the American military's ability to conduct espionage overseas because the espionage wing of the military isn't concerned with petty things like "rights." And that believing this isn't correct or moral is an extremist take.

No, my point is that it isn't unreasonable for a nation to treat foreigners differently, and in some cases it is necessary to do so, such as matters of national security.

That doesn't mean we are denying them basic rights though. "Basic" being the key term since that's the word the people I've been arguing with keep using. The right not to be spied on, while an important right, is not what I would consider a "basic" right. Basic rights would be things like shelter, food, water, medical care, and the chance to have their case for entry to be heard by a court. All of those are things developed nations, including the US, offer to those who show up at their borders.

The extremness of the position isn't that they want basic rights for foreigners, it's that they believe there should be no distinction made between citizen and non-citizen. Whether you agree with that position or not, you have to admit that compared to the current status quo around the world, that is an extreme position to hold.

 

[Lexicus]

Whether you agree with that position or not, you have to admit that compared to the current status quo around the world, that is an extreme position to hold.

I do agree with that. My conclusion is that the status quo is unacceptable and indeed evil.

 

[Commodore]

I do agree with that. My conclusion is that the status quo is unacceptable and indeed evil.

Calling pretty much all of human society evil is also a pretty extreme position to hold.

 

[Lexicus]

Calling pretty much all of human society evil is also a pretty extreme position to hold.

actual photo of me:

Spoiler :

 

[Commodore]

actual photo of me:

Spoiler :

Not to body shame you or anything, but you should do something about all those wrinkles.

 

[Lexicus]

Not to body shame you or anything, but you should do something about all those wrinkles.

Those wrinkles are the result of a US Department of Defense experiment I participated in back in 1963.

 

[Patine]

If someone supports Trump I cant help but assume they're kinda of a chump. I really dislike gullible people and find it ironic the alt-right is obsessed with "c u cks" and yet their champion is a proud con-man.

To me the hat is just Trump advertising. Political slogans dont really mean anything "hope and change", "yes we can", "make America great", you can view it as racist or view it as a return to when the US manufactured stuff & wasnt outsourcing so many jobs and was the unequivocal world #1

Where I live I never see the hats

The problem in the United States political system is the rigged and corrupted "Turno Pacifico." Only two political parties ever have any chance of winning - NOT because no other party or candidate ever has a valid message or decent platform, but because the electoral system is rigged in a similar way to emerging democracies and post-Soviet states that the United States Department of State likes to scold for such - the U.S. system just has two parties benefitting, like the old Spanish Turno Pacifico or the old Argentinian and Colombian "Gentlemen's Agreements" (all three of which had the two corruptly beneficiary called the "Partido Liberal and the Partido Conservator"). Thus Americans just don't have enough political choice, in truth, to make broad, sweeping condemnations of their moral fiber by which party they voted for. In Germany, CDU/CSU, Afl, and NDP/DVU voters are VERY different from each other, ideologically. But all three parties are on the right-wing of the political spectrum. In the U.S., there's ONLY the Republican Party. Compounding that is the fact that, in the 2016 election, specifically, Hillary Clinton was just as much of an unethical and monstrous liar and all-around horrid candidate - her evils were just focused on other issues. There was absolutely NO moral, correct, or even tolerable choice there - it was a pure pick-your-poison (or your monster) choice, and no mistake. Any American voter who DIDN'T make a protest vote for a Third Party or Independent candidate, a defiant write-in, or stayed home should be grilled be for their morality and humanity in general, rather than just those who voted for Trump. Or, maybe (and more likely) the whole electoral and political party system is in DIRE need of reform and overhaul, and elections brought back to the American people, and NOT the party bosses and plutocrats.

 

[Estebonrober]

Calling pretty much all of human society evil is also a pretty extreme position to hold.

I mean if you go back and read say the abolitionists in the run up to the Civil War they were making analogous points to what we are making now. They were also calling vast swaths of human society evil. What is an I admit "extremist" position now will shift if I can do anything about it.

 

[rah]

Yes, transpeople do tend to be the victims of negative policies of the GOP.

So you probably shouldn't insult people by them claiming they're victims since you keep claiming you're one.

You still haven't told us the individual republican candidates you've voted for and how they're somehow different from the gop body or why anyone would or should give them the benefit of the doubt.

Your mind was made up before because you think you know everything. You judge without facts. Facts won't change your judgement regardless of what they show.
You just generalize. Really not a smart thing to do when you're discussing 100's of thousands of people. Especially when you complain about people doing it to trans people.

 

[Berzerker]

Well "again" is hearkening back to a different time. It's only racist when you realize what they're referring to.

So maga longs for the days of slavery or Jim Crow and lynching black men? Meanwhile Trump is letting black people out of jail and bragging about how the economy helps them to the applause of the KKK.

 

[Estebonrober]

So maga longs for the days of slavery or Jim Crow and lynching black men? Meanwhile Trump is letting black people out of jail and bragging about how the economy helps them to the applause of the KKK.

Well his party is certainly trying to limit their ability to vote which is similar to Jim Crow efforts. Right? I mean we have their emails admitting that's the purpose of their gerrymandering and voting restrictions.

The jail thing was a nice touch I give you that. It was nice that we moved both parties out of the "jail every young black male that you can for the slightest infraction for as long as possible". /smh

Finally when the economy is good it raises all ships, but it doesn't necessarily change systemic discrimination.

 

[Patine]

Well his party is certainly trying to limit their ability to vote which is similar to Jim Crow efforts. Right? I mean we have their emails admitting that's the purpose of their gerrymandering and voting restrictions.

The jail thing was a nice touch I give you that. It was nice that we moved both parties out of the "jail every young black male that you can for the slightest infraction for as long as possible". /smh

Finally when the economy is good it raises all ships, but it doesn't necessarily change systemic discrimination.

The problem is, Americans don't have enough political choice in their elected leadership to rail them for which political party they vote for based ONLY on the party itself, and no other more specific motivations. This is a VERY serious and crippling flaw (and bipartisan in political support of doing absolutely NOTHING to fix, and wanting to be retained INDEFINITELY) that I addressed a few posts above, quoted below.

The problem in the United States political system is the rigged and corrupted "Turno Pacifico." Only two political parties ever have any chance of winning - NOT because no other party or candidate ever has a valid message or decent platform, but because the electoral system is rigged in a similar way to emerging democracies and post-Soviet states that the United States Department of State likes to scold for such - the U.S. system just has two parties benefitting, like the old Spanish Turno Pacifico or the old Argentinian and Colombian "Gentlemen's Agreements" (all three of which had the two corruptly beneficiary called the "Partido Liberal and the Partido Conservator"). Thus Americans just don't have enough political choice, in truth, to make broad, sweeping condemnations of their moral fiber by which party they voted for. In Germany, CDU/CSU, Afl, and NDP/DVU voters are VERY different from each other, ideologically. But all three parties are on the right-wing of the political spectrum. In the U.S., there's ONLY the Republican Party. Compounding that is the fact that, in the 2016 election, specifically, Hillary Clinton was just as much of an unethical and monstrous liar and all-around horrid candidate - her evils were just focused on other issues. There was absolutely NO moral, correct, or even tolerable choice there - it was a pure pick-your-poison (or your monster) choice, and no mistake. Any American voter who DIDN'T make a protest vote for a Third Party or Independent candidate, a defiant write-in, or stayed home should be grilled be for their morality and humanity in general, rather than just those who voted for Trump. Or, maybe (and more likely) the whole electoral and political party system is in DIRE need of reform and overhaul, and elections brought back to the American people, and NOT the party bosses and plutocrats.

 

[Estebonrober]

The problem is, Americans don't have enough political choice in their elected leadership to rail them for which political party they vote for based ONLY on the party itself, and no other more specific motivations. This is a VERY serious and crippling flaw (and bipartisan in political support of doing absolutely NOTHING to fix, and wanting to be retained INDEFINITELY) that I addressed a few posts above, quoted below.

I agree with you on this Patine. I try to vote for any independent candidate that I'm in line with (very few beyond local). I try to stop the partisan gerrymandering that these two parties have set up to choose their voters instead of the other way around. I'm just a poor boy in the midwest, so its hard for me to do much.

 

[Berzerker]

Well his party is certainly trying to limit their ability to vote which is similar to Jim Crow efforts. Right? I mean we have their emails admitting that's the purpose of their gerrymandering and voting restrictions.

The jail thing was a nice touch I give you that. It was nice that we moved both parties out of the "jail every young black male that you can for the slightest infraction for as long as possible". /smh

Finally when the economy is good it raises all ships, but it doesn't necessarily change systemic discrimination.

His party doesn't matter, this is about why people wear a hat in support of him. Now would a racist brag about freeing black people and their better job prospects?

 

[Synobun]

His party doesn't matter, this is about why people wear a hat in support of him. Now would a racist brag about freeing black people and their better job prospects?

Yes.

 

[Patine]

His party doesn't matter, this is about why people wear a hat in support of him. Now would a racist brag about freeing black people and their better job prospects?

Yes, they would. Exploitative, vulture-like, outsourcing, globalized multi-national corporation executives and PR speakers do it ALL THE TIME! And a notable number of them are tied to racist groups, causes, lobby interests, and "secret societies and gentleman's clubs."

 

[El_Machinae]

His party doesn't matter, this is about why people wear a hat in support of him. Now would a racist brag about freeing black people and their better job prospects?

After publishing false statistics about their criminality*? After exclaiming over and over that Kaepernick was an SOB**?

Dude, Trump also bragged (falsely) about the size of his electoral college victory (months after he'd been corrected, btw). The fact that he'll try to take credit for something doesn't mean much. He'll say anything that he thinks might make him look good. He pimped Trump University, for goodness sake.

*He didn't have to do this. He chose to.
**He didn't have to do this. He chose to.