[RD] What does free speech mean?

[uppi]

What exactly do you mean by this comment?

It would have proven that the enemies of the Nazis were the enemies of the German people and the only response to that could be total war. It would have proven that genocide is the correct answer.

 

[innonimatu]

At the very least, it would have sent a robust message to Stalin not to dicker with the West.

Actually I suspect Stalin could have been quire happy with that .

Of course blindly killing people in revenge would be little better that what the nazis had done. But killing, say, the officers of the german armed forces known to have taken part in war crimes might, just might, have averted the soviets' moves to keep control central Europe, if Stalin was doing it out of concern to avoid future attacks. Which is debatable.

It would have proven that the enemies of the Nazis were the enemies of the German people and the only response to that could be total war. It would have proven that genocide is the correct answer.

What, preemptive genocide now? How does vengeance for, or self-protection against a repeat of, a genocide can justify that genocide? It wouldn't have happened if that genocide hadn't happened before.

* the nazis and their phony justifications for not being prosecuted for their crimes.

 

[Lexicus]

But killing, say, the officers of the german armed forces known to have taken part in war crimes might, just might, have averted the soviets' moves to keep control central Europe, if Stalin was doing it out of concern to avoid future attacks. Which is debatable.

I doubt it, considering the context was not only fear of a revived Germany but grabbing up as much territory as possible with the knowledge that the US was doing the same.

 

[Hamid.H]

The only thing you would achieve by killing 8 million Nazis would be to prove that they were right.

oh please. give it up. the nazis murdered 20 million jews in death camps. the allies had a moral obligation to free the jews and march the 8 million nazis straight into auschwitz along with any of their supporters.

hh

 

[uppi]

Even though this is supposed to be about free speech (or maybe because?), I am shocked at the amount of support for genocide here.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

I regret making this thread, honestly.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Even though this is supposed to be about free speech (or maybe because?), I am shocked at the amount of support for genocide here.

Really? I can't think of anyone in favor who I wouldn't consider to be "the usual suspects," so I'm not surprised at all.

 

[Zardnaar]

oh please. give it up. the nazis murdered 20 million jews in death camps. the allies had a moral obligation to free the jews and march the 8 million nazis straight into auschwitz along with any of their supporters.

hh

6 million, the Soviets lost 20+ million (27-29 seems to be the accepted number).

 

[Dekker]

Yeah, and nobody I've read is saying the allies should have killed 6 million more people after WWII was done, unless I guess you would like to forward the suggestion. Just as nobody is saying go leik naaaaaziehs.

Some people are considering the possibility that if we hanged camp guards maybe we should have also hanged rocket scientists. And some people seem to be considering government restriction on legal advocacy around age of consent.

NAMBLAs goal was advocating the abolishment of age of consent, not lowering. Pedophillia is shunned by society, and the argument is that Nazis should equally be so, which surprisingly is being argued against.

 

[Estebonrober]

I regret making this thread, honestly.

I've stalked it, refusing to comment on any of it. Except this of course because I can relate to the feeling.

 

[Zardnaar]

NAMBLAs goal was advocating the abolishment of age of consent, not lowering. Pedophillia is shunned by society, and the argument is that Nazis should equally be so, which surprisingly is being argued against.

It's more that the cure is worse than the disease. And in American terms it's pointless anyway due to the constitution.

You're going to have Nazi terrorists regardless of what the law says.

Looking at Democracy start to fail around the world what is the main thing they take control of in places like Poland, Hungary, Turkey? They subvert the media. Venezuela for a more left wing example.

So there's that. It's not a hypothetical if you don't have free speech a future government can restrict what you value.

At some point in the future the GoP will win another election. A smarter Trump 2.0 could do a lot of damage.

With what's happening in the UK and USA you I think you can make the arguement it's already started.

If you ignore say the Constitution the other side can to and if push comes to shove the military doesn't support the Democrats.

You need that 75% supermajority. Fair/unfair doesn't really matter. You're happy to restrict the rights of others but you need to be self aware those rules can be applied to you.

And we're already seeing that process play out now it's not a hypothetical bogeyman.

 

[Dekker]

It's more that the cure is worse than the disease. And in American terms it's pointless anyway due to the constitution.

You're going to have Nazi terrorists regardless of what the law says.

Looking at Democracy start to fail around the world what is the main thing they take control of in places like Poland, Hungary, Turkey? They subvert the media. Venezuela for a more left wing example.

So there's that. It's not a hypothetical if you don't have free speech a future government can restrict what you value.

At some point in the future the GoP will win another election. A smarter Trump 2.0 could do a lot of damage.

With what's happening in the UK and USA you I think you can make the arguement it's already started.

If you ignore say the Constitution the other side can to and if push comes to shove the military doesn't support the Democrats.

You need that 75% supermajority. Fair/unfair doesn't really matter. You're happy to restrict the rights of others but you need to be self aware those rules can be applied to you.

And we're already seeing that process play out now it's not a hypothetical bogeyman.

Restrict the rights how? What's the cure? You keep making blanket statements in response to nothing that's actually being said, allows you to keep repeating the same thing over and over without actually engaging in discussion.

 

[Zardnaar]

Restrict the rights how? What's the cure? You keep making blanket statements in response to nothing that's actually being said, allows you to keep repeating the same thing over and over without actually engaging in discussion.

Restricting speech IMHO is worse than letting a few Nazis spout off.

They're going to do tht regardless of what the law says. See Germany for a prime example.

And you can see what's happening in the countries I listed when you don't have free speech.

 

[Estebonrober]

Restricting speech IMHO is worse than letting a few Nazis spout off.

They're going to do tht regardless of what the law says. See Germany for a prime example.

And you can see what's happening in the countries I listed when you don't have free speech.

Is anyone actually advocating for the government stepping in and restricting free speech or are we just advocating me exercising my free speech and asking you tube and co to not support this kind of hate speech?

 

[Zardnaar]

Is anyone actually advocating for the government stepping in and restricting free speech or are we just advocating me exercising my free speech and asking you tube and co to not support this kind of hate speech?

See some pervious posters responses.

 

[Estebonrober]

See some pervious posters responses.

Well I stand by my right to smother the forums that hate mongers go to with my speech. Using government to restrict I'm against. I'd feel better about this if we didn't have a nazi in the White House cabinet.

 

[Farm Boy]

NAMBLAs goal was advocating the abolishment of age of consent, not lowering. Pedophillia is shunned by society, and the argument is that Nazis should equally be so, which surprisingly is being argued against.

If you're interested in a discussion regarding whether or not you think NABLA members should be allowed to speak as to what they think the law should be, or if the government should seek to silence them, then maybe I'm interested. I presume, seeing as we can't have babe or hunk threads anymore and that CFC is hardly unique under the long arm of Google ad revenue, actual discussion regarding lowering, or raising, the age of consent is on dicey ground to begin with in private contexts.

I don't trust the rest of the arguments around who claims Nazis should be or aren't shunned. Whole thing kind of feels like an excuse to call people Europepedophiles.

 

[Lexicus]

It would have proven that the enemies of the Nazis were the enemies of the German people and the only response to that could be total war. It would have proven that genocide is the correct answer.

In my view the Germans themselves chose to make the enemies of the Nazis the enemies of the German people by overwhelmingly supporting the Nazis.

I'm certainly not saying I think the Allies should have killed 8 million people after the war was over but I do think you ought to be a little more careful about how you express your opposition to that idea.

 

[Socrates99]

Imo free speech only applies to the government. It can't restrict speech. If some hateful group wants to hold a rally in a public place, they should be allowed. Free speech is also the right of the rest of us to drown our hateful rhetoric. This mumbo jumbo about campuses or internet companies violating free speech is bogus. If the private venues view some speakers as offensive they aren't obligated to host them because of free speech. If some hatemonger is out speaking at a public venue (or online) its everybody else's right to tell them to STFU.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

I presume, seeing as we can't have babe or hunk threads anymore and that CFC is hardly unique under the long arm of Google ad revenue, actual discussion regarding lowering, or raising, the age of consent is on dicey ground to begin with in private contexts.

It's not unique to CFC. See the recent controversy about Tumblr banning all adult content (from what I've been told, the porn-bots are still doing pretty well though). And a decade ago there was the Strikethrough where a lot of LiveJournal accounts were suspended.